Topic: All-Weather Tires for BC West Coast on a Forester XT

[Trainman]

Since starting my now not so new job 1 year ago, I have not had to drive east of Abbotsford; in fact I doubt I drove in snow more than 4 or 5 times last winter.

So I am thinking of replacing the OEM tires on the Forester this fall with all-weather tires as I think they will meet my needs as far as winter driving goes, and allow me to stay with one tire for the year. 

Options seem to be getting better now too, as in addition to the Nokian WRG3 SUV there is the Toyo Celsius CUV http://www.toyotires.ca/tire/pattern/celsius-cuv.

However, I have not been able to get reliable reviews on the Toyo.  Does anyone here have experience with them, or know of any reviews?  Comparison reviews would be awesome too.

Also, any other options I should be considering?  My biggest winter concern would be black ice (and wet snow/slush when we get it), and I need a tire rugged enough to take some back road use, hence why I am looking at the SUV/CUV versions of the Nokian and Toyo.  Temperatures range from -10 in winter, with the very odd drop to -15 to a high of maybe 30 on the highways.  I had the WRG2 on the '09, but never tired them in winter as I had dedicated snowies due to my old job requiring drives to the interior in winter.  The snowies are also too soft for gravel use around here as I found out at Christmas.

Size is a bit of an issue as well, with the OEM size on the XT being P225/55R18 97H which I understand is a bit of an oddball.  A popular upgrade is to a 235 as that is about what will fit, and for the Toyo that would be the only option.

Thanks for any thoughts on this,

Tman

[tortoise]

I haven't checked, does the Cooper AT/W  come in that size?  They are well regarded.

[Gurgie]

I haven't checked, does the Cooper AT/W  come in that size?  They are well regarded.

   and I believe Fob got a set of those last fall?

[dkaz]

I have Nordman WRs on my Odyssey and they were reasonable in all but the worst of snow.

Useful since it's snowing on the Okanagan Connector right now...

[Trainman]

I haven't checked, does the Cooper AT/W  come in that size?  They are well regarded.

   and I believe Fob got a set of those last fall?

Wow, those review well, but not even close to fitment for the XT 

I have Nordman WRs on my Odyssey and they were reasonable in all but the worst of snow.

...

Having lived in Merritt for 20 years, I know what those conditions are and they are very different than the coast.  Much more issues with black ice and wet slushy snow vs the cold, dry fluffy snow that either blows off the highway or compacts.  I will take a longer look at the Nordman but have a feeling they won't be what I am looking for.  And means having to deal with KT 

....Useful since it's snowing on the Okanagan Connector right now...

   Driven that road in fresh snow at least once in each month of the year, yes even July and August.  Some wild weather on that highway, especially around Sunset Main.

[Fobroader]

I haven't checked, does the Cooper AT/W  come in that size?  They are well regarded.

   and I believe Fob got a set of those last fall?

I did and they are fantastic in all conditions.

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[SaskSpecV]

Trainman, what are the OE tires on the XT?  The 2.5i comes with Yoko Geolanders, is it different for the 18" rims?

If you really can't find a good all-weather tire in that size, you could always go -1 and find some 225/60R17s....I know a guy in SK who would even swap rims with you for free! 

[lebowski]

Trainman, don't mean to hijack your thread, but i'd be very interested to hear what tires you finally go with - i'm now in the BC Lower Mainland and looking to replace my two-set winter/summer tire setup for an all-season setup good enough for the Coast Mountains (Whistler and slightly beyond).

[Trainman]

Trainman, what are the OE tires on the XT?  The 2.5i comes with Yoko Geolanders, is it different for the 18" rims?

If you really can't find a good all-weather tire in that size, you could always go -1 and find some 225/60R17s....I know a guy in SK who would even swap rims with you for free! 

Thanks for the suggestion, and the offer    Unfortunately due to the WRX sourced brake components on the XT, 17" rims won't fit; I even tried to get the dealer to do the swap as part of the purchase but no go 

The XT came with Bridgestone Duelers that rank 55 of 57 by Tire Rack; tested very poor in winter conditions and poor in other areas except they seem to be tough, so they have to go away this fall.

Trainman, don't mean to hijack your thread, but i'd be very interested to hear what tires you finally go with - i'm now in the BC Lower Mainland and looking to replace my two-set winter/summer tire setup for an all-season setup good enough for the Coast Mountains (Whistler and slightly beyond).

Will do, but not a lot of options on a decent all-weather tire.  Really too bad about those Coopers not being available in my size as that seems to be perfect for what I am looking for.

[lebowski]

Will do, but not a lot of options on a decent all-weather tire.  Really too bad about those Coopers not being available in my size as that seems to be perfect for what I am looking for.

Ahh, gotcha - thanks anyway. Yeah, that is too bad re: the Coopers. Hope you find something else out there.

[dkaz]

I have Nordman WRs on my Odyssey and they were reasonable in all but the worst of snow.

...

Having lived in Merritt for 20 years, I know what those conditions are and they are very different than the coast.  Much more issues with black ice and wet slushy snow vs the cold, dry fluffy snow that either blows off the highway or compacts.  I will take a longer look at the Nordman but have a feeling they won't be what I am looking for.  And means having to deal with KT

True. I had WR G2s in Vancouver in the epic snowfall of 08-09 and gated them. I thought I was getting into a fool me twice situation going with WRs but the snow here is easier to handle.

Toyo Tire has the Celsius all weather tire.

[Trainman]

Thanks DK.  I have included the Toyo in my research for sure.  Another option that is popular with Forester owners in NJ, New England and the PNW is the Michelin Defender LTX M/S.  No significant hit to fuel economy noted, good tread life, and decent performance in wet, slush, snow and dry conditions.  Only drawback seems to be performance in icy/compact snow although Tire Rack performance ratings give it Excellent or Superior for winter, and Superior for all other areas reported.  Claimed to be quieter than OEM.

Another wrinkle in this whole decision is Subaru's use of a space saver spare tire, size T145/80D17.  It has a diameter of 26.1", while the OEM 225/55R18 has 27.8.  Going to 235 changes the diameter to 28.1.  A full size spare will not fit in the well unless it is deflated (it is OK in diameter, it is too wide to allow the floor to sit down properly); which means having to carry some means of inflation.  The spare is to be used only on the rear axle due to it smaller diameter.

I am going to see if I can get a larger diameter space save spare to give me more options, if not then I may be stuck with the WRG3 as that is the only one available in OEM size   

I have Nordman WRs on my Odyssey and they were reasonable in all but the worst of snow.

...

Having lived in Merritt for 20 years, I know what those conditions are and they are very different than the coast.  Much more issues with black ice and wet slushy snow vs the cold, dry fluffy snow that either blows off the highway or compacts.  I will take a longer look at the Nordman but have a feeling they won't be what I am looking for.  And means having to deal with KT

True. I had WR G2s in Vancouver in the epic snowfall of 08-09 and gated them. I thought I was getting into a fool me twice situation going with WRs but the snow here is easier to handle.

Toyo Tire has the Celsius all weather tire.

[johngenx]

Subaru has been fitting crap OE tires forever and good to see that tradition carries on. FFS Subaru, stop it!

As much as I'm loathe to pay the Nokian premium for their tires I think in the All-Weather category they basically own it and I'd go that route especially since you have so few choices based on the size.

And another strike against makers for equipping their cars with useless spare tires. I suppose it's better than many that just don't bother with any spare.


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[Trainman]

Subaru has been fitting crap OE tires forever and good to see that tradition carries on. FFS Subaru, stop it!

As much as I'm loathe to pay the Nokian premium for their tires I think in the All-Weather category they basically own it and I'd go that route especially since you have so few choices based on the size.

And another strike against makers for equipping their cars with useless spare tires. I suppose it's better than many that just don't bother with any spare.


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The Dueler 400's on the Forester rate 33 of 35 on Tire Rack, pretty poor show for what is supposed to be a bit of a performance vehicle.

I have to agree that it is looking more and more that it will be Nokian unless Toyo brings out a size that works, then I may try those as they seem to compare well to the WRG3.  But I am seriously tempted by the Defenders too.  Good thing I have till September to get it all figured out.

Beside putting on crap tires, why did Subaru use an oddball size too?  Frustrating.

[cslater]

Hello,

I ran the Nokian WR's (version 2 and 3) on all my vehicles when we lived on Vancouver Island and was always vey impressed with the performance.

Chris

[Trainman]

So I had the WRG3 SUV XL in the OEM size installed today.  Will see how they perform over the next while; predictions are for a warmer, but wetter, winter on the Coast so may see even less snow than last year.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes to noise and handling there are.

[Bulkley]

So I had the WRG3 SUV XL in the OEM size installed today.  Will see how they perform over the next while; predictions are for a warmer, but wetter, winter on the Coast so may see even less snow than last year.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes to noise and handling there are.

Trainman, I will be watching to see how those perform for you.  I am most interested in how they behave on bare roads. 

[Trainman]

So I had the WRG3 SUV XL in the OEM size installed today.  Will see how they perform over the next while; predictions are for a warmer, but wetter, winter on the Coast so may see even less snow than last year.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes to noise and handling there are.

Trainman, I will be watching to see how those perform for you.  I am most interested in how they behave on bare roads.

As I am not planning on getting any real high speed on these tires till next Sunday, I thought I had better take it for a spin up the Hump just to make sure there are no issues with balancing.  Based on this quick drive, I can offer the following observations:

First, the drive is about 7 kms one-way, with a posted speed of 80.  There is one sharp 90 degree corner with a recommended speed of 50, and a bit of twisting S curve at the bottom of the hill.  Grade is 5-7%.  Knowing that the tires need some sort of break-in, I did not push too hard.  Temp was about 10-12, and the road was dry.  Also got about 1 km of gravel as well.

Observations:
- They are indeed quieter;
- They ride better.  There is better absorption of road irregularities, and they feel a bit more cushy;
- Surprisingly, despite the more cushy feel, they handle much better.  Better response to steering inputs.  I will need to see if the wandering off center at speed the XT has exhibited so far is now gone, but need the Inland Highway for that test;
- They do hang onto rocks a bit more, will have to see how that is long term.  Really only a problem for the tailgater behind me 

Oh, no issues with balance.

Only time will tell how fuel consumption is impacted, but my quick drive shows them to be a better tire, at least in the dry.

[Trainman]

So I had the WRG3 SUV XL in the OEM size installed today.  Will see how they perform over the next while; predictions are for a warmer, but wetter, winter on the Coast so may see even less snow than last year.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes to noise and handling there are.

Trainman, I will be watching to see how those perform for you.  I am most interested in how they behave on bare roads.

As I am not planning on getting any real high speed on these tires till next Sunday...
  I will need to see if the wandering off center at speed the XT has exhibited so far is now gone, but need the Inland Highway for that test;
...

So as they say about plans.....

Had to drive to Nanaimo yesterday, so that involved the Inland Highway at 120 kph.  I can confirm that the straight line wandering that was present with the OEM tires at higher speeds is now gone, reactions to steering inputs are much sharper.  Getting less and less impressed with those OEM tires  , but $100 for them   

[dkaz]

Very nice, about similar to my experience with the WR G2. The Nordman WRs don't feel as good in comparison but they're good in the snow which is what matters to me.