Topic: Subaru Could Drop Six-Cylinder Engines

[Autos_Editor]

Legacy could use turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder instead

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[JohnnyMac]

Not surprising.  Now if they could pair that turbo with a manual, oh and bring back the wagon.

[mnztr]

Not surprising.  Now if they could pair that turbo with a manual, oh and bring back the wagon.

Ohhh yeah, a legacy wagon ... turbo, manual, 250 hp.. MAKE IT SO!!!!

[johngenx]

I was chatting with a Subaru owner chum of mine the other day that had a dyno plot for a not-nuts modded 15 WRX that showed 350hp at the wheels.  He has a 2015 STi that he's about to go to town on and was shocked when the tuner told him they expect a decent number of 400hp WRXs to be strafing our streets soon.  Seems that the 2.0L engine is STOUT and can handle massive power.

Where am I going with this?  Hello, Subaru, how about a 300hp Legacy?  Sounds like the 2.0L can handle it and still make OE warranty spec.

[blotter]

i'm likely the only one... but I don't like the news.
sure, drop it from the Legacy... makes sense, but don't take it away from the Outback.
the Outback's H6 is the only vehicle in Subaru's line up with decent towing capacity.
(Forester is only 1,500lbs)

I'm sure the market for that is a sliver anyways, so i guess that won't matter.

[redman]

i'm likely the only one... but I don't like the news.
sure, drop it from the Legacy... makes sense, but don't take it away from the Outback.
the Outback's H6 is the only vehicle in Subaru's line up with decent towing capacity.
(Forester is only 1,500lbs)

I'm sure the market for that is a sliver anyways, so i guess that won't matter.

There are a lot of Subaru Outbacks in the Mississauga/Oakville area I live in. [Miss Subbie Head Office] I could not tell you the last time I saw any of them towing more than a few bikes around town. My insurance company now charges more for a vehicle with a towing hitch. Yes it's great to be able to tow heavier loads but I wonder how many users actually do. Reminds me of the demand for stick Outbacks/Legacy vs actual sales. The cries by the few seem loud but the actual uptake is low. Subaru Canada like other car companies care about the majority buyers and order accordingly.

[blotter]

i'm likely the only one... but I don't like the news.
sure, drop it from the Legacy... makes sense, but don't take it away from the Outback.
the Outback's H6 is the only vehicle in Subaru's line up with decent towing capacity.
(Forester is only 1,500lbs)

I'm sure the market for that is a sliver anyways, so i guess that won't matter.

There are a lot of Subaru Outbacks in the Mississauga/Oakville area I live in. [Miss Subbie Head Office] I could not tell you the last time I saw any of them towing more than a few bikes around town. My insurance company now charges more for a vehicle with a towing hitch. Yes it's great to be able to tow heavier loads but I wonder how many users actually do. Reminds me of the demand for stick Outbacks/Legacy vs actual sales. The cries by the few seem loud but the actual uptake is low. Subaru like other car companies care about the majority buyers.

agreed, i'm sure the uptake IS low.  But get outside the GTA and there is the odd Outback pulling a small pop up.   It was one of the options we considered instead of a truck.   We actually have neighbours who pull a small pop up with their Outback. 

[redman]

i'm likely the only one... but I don't like the news.
sure, drop it from the Legacy... makes sense, but don't take it away from the Outback.
the Outback's H6 is the only vehicle in Subaru's line up with decent towing capacity.
(Forester is only 1,500lbs)

I'm sure the market for that is a sliver anyways, so i guess that won't matter.

There are a lot of Subaru Outbacks in the Mississauga/Oakville area I live in. [Miss Subbie Head Office] I could not tell you the last time I saw any of them towing more than a few bikes around town. My insurance company now charges more for a vehicle with a towing hitch. Yes it's great to be able to tow heavier loads but I wonder how many users actually do. Reminds me of the demand for stick Outbacks/Legacy vs actual sales. The cries by the few seem loud but the actual uptake is low. Subaru like other car companies care about the majority buyers.

agreed, i'm sure the uptake IS low.  But get outside the GTA and there is the odd Outback pulling a small pop up.   It was one of the options we considered instead of a truck.   We actually have neighbours who pull a small pop up with their Outback.

Modern pop ups start at about 700lbs. Depends on size 1500lbs might suffice. Is it the engine alone that limits the new Foresters tow rating to 1500lbs ?

I think Subaru is at a crossroads with their 6 cylinder engine. Either invest heavy on a redesign or loose the 6 and go with a turbo 4 like most competitors.

[Snowman]

I loved the H6 in our Tribeca but I don't see Subaru coming up with a replacement in the midziser SUV category... so this would make sense.

[Noto]

Where am I going with this?  Hello, Subaru, how about a 300hp Legacy?  Sounds like the 2.0L can handle it and still make OE warranty spec.

I'm on your side, but Subaru has been quoted to say that they 'de'tune the 2.0T for North America because of varying grades of fuel.

I don't think they'll change that any time soon...hell, the WRX came out with only 18hp over the Fozzie XT...

And yeah, I don't think Subaru much cares about towing, but they should...Vermont, New Hampshire, and Colorado folks tend to tow things.

By the way, did nobody read this?:

Hori said. “So that’s why probably the future, many companies take the smaller displacement with a turbocharger, or diesel, or hybrid.”

^^ "OR DIESEL"

Hint hint, possibly, nudge nudge, possibly?

[hemusbull]

Nothing more natural for Subaru...Even their H6 exist who cares - it is a privilege for their van and big SUV. The heart of Subi is four cylinder one...

[blotter]

Modern pop ups start at about 700lbs. Depends on size 1500lbs might suffice. Is it the engine alone that limits the new Foresters tow rating to 1500lbs ?

My 1999 Forester was only rated for 1,500lbs as well. 
I remember ready once that "studies" told them 1500lbs was enough for the majority of people, so I think they just don't design it to handle any more.   (chasis, tranny, engine) 
Not sure really what is at the heart of low capacity.

[SaskSpecV]

Modern pop ups start at about 700lbs. Depends on size 1500lbs might suffice. Is it the engine alone that limits the new Foresters tow rating to 1500lbs ?

My 1999 Forester was only rated for 1,500lbs as well. 
I remember ready once that "studies" told them 1500lbs was enough for the majority of people, so I think they just don't design it to handle any more.   (chasis, tranny, engine) 
Not sure really what is at the heart of low capacity.

It's not the engine in the Forester - and certainly not the 2.0T (which has the same tow rating as the 2.5L).  I thought it was the CVT tranny, but CVT and manual have the same tow rating. (1000 lbs, 1500 with trailer brakes).  And since the H6 only has a 300 lb higher rating than the 2.5L in the Outback (3000 vs 2700 lbs), I can't imagine the 2.0T would lower it any further.

For me, tow capacity is one of the draws of the Outback over the Forester.  Won't be a deal-breaker - wife's truck means we'll always have a tow vehicle - but it might be nice to use a smaller, more-fuel efficient vehicle to tow our pop-up trailer.  I fully realize I'm in the minority with this though. 

[Noto]

What kind of idiots conduct these "studies"

Or better yet, in what vacuum do these studies take place???

[2JDM]

Parents are going to get a Forester or Outback within the next year.

Difference: [Forester NA 4cyl or XT 2.0L Turbo] or Outback 4 cyl? They won't consider the H6 in the Outback due to the fuel economy...if it had the Turbo though....

[Northernridge]

Subaru has done an excellent job in positioning its turbo 4s as premium within the lineup, so they should make this change with ease. Funny though...elsewhere going to a T4 from a 6 can be perceived as a downgrade.

[Trainman]

Towing capacity is different by market.  For example, the Forester in Australia is rated at 1,500 kg with/750 kg without trailer brakes regardless of engine/transmission.  This is a bit of a bone of contention on the Forester forum as it appears the Forester is capable of towing more than it is rated for in NA.  Maybe a perceived liability thing?

As for losing the 6 cylinder, unless they wish to re-do it to make it more efficient, it just seems to make sense and is not a real surprise to me.

[mixmanmash]

Towing capacity is different by market.  For example, the Forester in Australia is rated at 1,500 kg with/750 kg without trailer brakes regardless of engine/transmission.  This is a bit of a bone of contention on the Forester forum as it appears the Forester is capable of towing more than it is rated for in NA.  Maybe a perceived liability thing?

As for losing the 6 cylinder, unless they wish to re-do it to make it more efficient, it just seems to make sense and is not a real surprise to me.

They should modularize and base it on the newer 4 cylinder engines.  Build two:

Take the 2.0 turbo, keep the pistons and rods the same, add 2 more cylinders and make a 3.0L turbo or twin turbo.

Take the 2.5L, do the same and make a 3.7L NA H6.

[northsparrow]

Subaru is one of the  worst positioned companies to meet the hastily approaching 50mpg CAFE standards in the US market .

Their currently  fashionable AWD  mania will be a millstone under the new regulations.

Their hybrid experiment has been a failure. Therefore they will either have to adapt their Diesels to pass North American emission tests , go electric or start re-badging tiny Toyotas from their partner's portfolio to increase their fleet average.


 

[Solstice2006]

"Subaru is one of the last automakers to still make a six-cylinder engine available in their midsize sedan. But, if the subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries follows the downsizing trend, the 3.6L boxer six-cylinder could be replaced by a smaller turbocharged four-pot."

What about the V6 in the Accord, Altima, or the Camry.  Yes they aren't that many, but still a few...

“Our research said the six-cylinder model is decreasing in the world,” Hori said. “So that’s why probably the future, many companies take the smaller displacement with a turbocharger, or diesel, or hybrid.”

Hope you didn't pay too much for that research, pretty obvious by just watching the competition...