Topic: Head-to-Head Comparison Test: 2013 BMW 328i xDrive vs 2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD

[sailor723]

And yet is is still more reliable than a 535i according to Consumer Reports (40% above average compared to 12% below for the 3 series and 18% below for the 5 series). I can deal with scratched plastic a lot better than I could with replacing high pressure fuel pumps.

And here's a quote from LA Times (Feb 26, 2013) referring to the same Consumer Reports
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-consumer-reports-car-rankings-20130226,0,1114118.story
"...
When it comes to luxury cars, Consumer Reports liked two European nameplates.  Its top pick for sports sedan was the BMW 328i.  The magazine praised its combination of handling and fuel economy..."
Note, the North American car of the year didn't make it.

That was a mish-mash of reliability and test scores. On reliability alone, BMW is a tail dragger.

I just looked at the CR page and they give the 3 series a "much better than average" reliability rating ( full red circle) 

[sailor723]

It's interesting that both engines produce similar HP despite a big difference in HP ratings. 

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

[whaddaiknow]

The average age of a Cadillac buyer has dropped from nearly 70 to 58 over the last 10-12 years. 20% of ATS buyers are under 35, which is pretty good for this segment.

Plymouth and Pontiac are both brands that went from a very stodgy image to sporty in the 1950s. Mercedes is currently working on a similar transition. Honda in the UK went in the opposite direction, going from a young man's car to something reserved for grandma.

Regardless of source or image, good product at a reasonable price will find buyers.

SirO, I know you're good with stats but you know stats mean nothing out of context. With full-size DTS (gone completely and the rep[lacement is an utter failure) and STS (not updated in the longest time so no one is interested anymore) pretty much out of the picture, what did they have on the menu? Escalade and CTS - pimp mobile and sporty sedan. Older people have no use for those cars. No wonder the average age of the Caddy buyer dropped.

Completely agree with the last statement. Good products sell.

[whaddaiknow]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

[sailor723]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

[Fobroader]

It's interesting that both engines produce similar HP despite a big difference in HP ratings. 

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

Thats a dyno sheet, so thats power to the rear wheels. If it only lost 25 horses thats a very good drivetrain.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And yet is is still more reliable than a 535i according to Consumer Reports (40% above average compared to 12% below for the 3 series and 18% below for the 5 series). I can deal with scratched plastic a lot better than I could with replacing high pressure fuel pumps.

And here's a quote from LA Times (Feb 26, 2013) referring to the same Consumer Reports
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-consumer-reports-car-rankings-20130226,0,1114118.story
"...
When it comes to luxury cars, Consumer Reports liked two European nameplates.  Its top pick for sports sedan was the BMW 328i.  The magazine praised its combination of handling and fuel economy..."
Note, the North American car of the year didn't make it.

That was a mish-mash of reliability and test scores. On reliability alone, BMW is a tail dragger.

I just looked at the CR page and they give the 3 series a "much better than average" reliability rating ( full red circle) 

Look in the comments column on the far right.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

That's power at the wheels. Quoted HP is at the crank. Driveline losses are typically between 15 and 25%. If the difference is 9%, Cadillac is understating crank HP, or the dyno is in need of calibration.

[sailor723]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

That's power at the wheels. Quoted HP is at the crank. Driveline losses are typically between 15 and 25%. If the difference is 9%, Cadillac is understating crank HP, or the dyno is in need of calibration.

But isn't the BMW showing the 240-odd it's rated for?  Is it not losing anything? 

.....or maybe BMW is understating the 2.0 turbo's hp so as not to crowd the 335?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The average age of a Cadillac buyer has dropped from nearly 70 to 58 over the last 10-12 years. 20% of ATS buyers are under 35, which is pretty good for this segment.

Plymouth and Pontiac are both brands that went from a very stodgy image to sporty in the 1950s. Mercedes is currently working on a similar transition. Honda in the UK went in the opposite direction, going from a young man's car to something reserved for grandma.

Regardless of source or image, good product at a reasonable price will find buyers.

SirO, I know you're good with stats but you know stats mean nothing out of context. With full-size DTS (gone completely and the rep[lacement is an utter failure) and STS (not updated in the longest time so no one is interested anymore) pretty much out of the picture, what did they have on the menu? Escalade and CTS - pimp mobile and sporty sedan. Older people have no use for those cars. No wonder the average age of the Caddy buyer dropped.

Completely agree with the last statement. Good products sell.

Cadillac brand sales are way up, increasing on the backs of the CTS, ATS and SRX (second only to the RX in sales). The people buying them are younger than they've been since the 1990s, yet this is a bad thing to you.

Overall, they've made a pretty huge jump, year over year.

Edit. I clipped the Mercedes numbers: #13 with 23,578, up 11% year over year.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

That's power at the wheels. Quoted HP is at the crank. Driveline losses are typically between 15 and 25%. If the difference is 9%, Cadillac is understating crank HP, or the dyno is in need of calibration.

But isn't the BMW showing the 240-odd it's rated for?  Is it not losing anything? 

.....or maybe BMW is understating the 2.0 turbo's hp so as not to crowd the 335?

That seems more than likely, given the measurements.

[Oldsguy]

Wow, the usual GM haters are really having to work hard on this one...

[Fobroader]

Wow, the usual GM haters are really having to work hard on this one...

Hey, Im backing GM on this one......

[sailor723]

Wow, the usual GM haters are really having to work hard on this one...

Hey, Im backing GM on this one......

I looked at an ATS and thought it was an nice car. I will admit that given Cadillac's past history I am a bit of a sceptic when it comes to resale or it's longer (3years+) term reliability. I think GM is still squeezing parts suppliers awfully hard on price and that has to result in less durability.

[chuchupika]

Wow, the usual GM haters are really having to work hard on this one...

Hey, Im backing GM on this one......

I looked at an ATS and thought it was an nice car. I will admit that given Cadillac's past history I am a bit of a sceptic when it comes to resale or it's longer (3years+) term reliability. I think GM is still squeezing parts suppliers awfully hard on price and that has to result in less durability.

Resale value doesn't come from reliability, it comes from if buyers want to buy it 2nd hand.  Even if a caddy is as bulletproof as a honda, I doubt it will help the resale value.  There will always be kids wanting a 2nd hand BMW, but not a 2nd hand Caddy.  That's reality.

The CTS is actually a good sale and most people who bought one are happy with it. 

Actually GM doesn't have to squeeze anyone.  The US dollar is devaluing, so they can sell it for a lot cheaper aboard.  When comparing to a Japanese car, it is a bargain.  Many autosites are saying how Toyota/Lexus are cheaping out on parts so they can price the car the same as before (even with that big Yen).  If Caddy want to be successful, they better sell it for cheaper than a BMW but not cheap out on their parts.  The GM execs are a bunch of fools, they rather pad their bottomline than the continue success of the US auto industry.  I think new GM needs to be bankrupted again. 

You guys also forget that Caddy were king in the old days.  They even sing about Caddys in mainstream songs.  How the US has fallen. 

[greengs]

It's interesting that both engines produce similar HP despite a big difference in HP ratings. 

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

BMW, Audi, VW all have a habit of underrating their turbo engines somewhat.  328i should be rated at closer to 270hp.  I know there is a standard which is supposed to be followed for HP ratings but nothing stops the manufacturers from under rating the power.  There are some people out there that may be swayed by 240 vs 270 hp when in fact both engines make the same power. 

[dave]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

That's power at the wheels. Quoted HP is at the crank. Driveline losses are typically between 15 and 25%. If the difference is 9%, Cadillac is understating crank HP, or the dyno is in need of calibration.

But isn't the BMW showing the 240-odd it's rated for?  Is it not losing anything? 

.....or maybe BMW is understating the 2.0 turbo's hp so as not to crowd the 335?

335i is underrated too.  More like 300hp to the wheels, 330hp to the crank I believe.  There is a BIG difference when you drive the 328i and 335i back-to-back.  The sound of the 4 vs. the 6 alone is (almost) worth the extra cost.

[dave]

AGREED! Glad to see people with sensible size expectations and not running to a Yukon the moment they get more than one kid [my brother in law is guilty of this]. I will always have sedans, and if I need more space for the kids and dogs...I will go get a sport wagon...a V70R, 9-5 Aero, or A4 Avant will do nicely...

Kids and dogs into an A4 Avant?  You're tune will change once you do have kids, unless your dogs are chiwawas. V70R would work for us, and we have two kids and a large dog.

Disagree. A4 Avant would be fine for family of 4+ full sized dog.  Our similarily sized 2010 Passat Wagon easily handles my family of 4 and 2 dogs (35-40lb dogs) for a week at the cottage.

[Fobroader]

I thought the ATS had something like 272 hp?   Are you saying GM is fudging the figures?

More likely BMW underrating its turbo 4 to further distance it from and justify a much higher margin on the 335i.

Well, if I'm reading that graph right the caddy peaked at under 250.

That's power at the wheels. Quoted HP is at the crank. Driveline losses are typically between 15 and 25%. If the difference is 9%, Cadillac is understating crank HP, or the dyno is in need of calibration.

But isn't the BMW showing the 240-odd it's rated for?  Is it not losing anything? 

.....or maybe BMW is understating the 2.0 turbo's hp so as not to crowd the 335?

335i is underrated too.  More like 300hp to the wheels, 330hp to the crank I believe.  There is a BIG difference when you drive the 328i and 335i back-to-back.  The sound of the 4 vs. the 6 alone is (almost) worth the extra cost.

I saw a stock 335i on a dyno last summer, the guy made about 280 at the wheels.

[Soram6275]

Very nicely done...What if you had only 2 kids?  Or perhaps none?   What would the choice be then?  I consider "badge recognition", snobbery...It matters not what it's called; only what it is...Patooey on what others think....Thanks for a very nice report   Jack

I too consider badge recognition snobbery.  However...In defence of the BMW - it would most likely be cheaper to lease as it will most definitely have a higher resale value than the ATS once the lease is up - hence lower lease payments.  For someone of an average income, this may be a worthwhile consideration. 

I do also get annoyed with people (wannabes) who drive these cars without knowing anything about them except that they're a premium brand.  It's like the person that gets the basic 323i without any options (might as well get a loaded Accord at that point) and barely makes even those payments just to have the blue and white propeller on their hood - ridiculous.

The article was fantastic.  Readers very much appreciate the author's true opinion without catering to appeasing the masses.  I very much enjoyed reading this comparison.  Thanks for a great comparo.

So poor, stupid people shouldnt drive BMWs    Oh please, because most other brands customers are very well versed when it comes to the product. Most of the time it comes down to "this will impress the neighbors", "OMG, its so pretty" or "this color matches my siding". Most of the car buying public are absolutely clueless when it comes to cars......case in point, saw a really nice A4 the other day, in tan...TAN...one of the best looking cars on the road with tan outside and tan inside. You think that guy had any idea whatsoever of what Audi is all about and how that Quattro system is keeping him on the road???

Don't imagine a conversation that never took place.  I said, "I get annoyed, etc."...  I am not telling anyone what to buy.  Keep your panties on.