Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD Premium

[wing]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

[whaddaiknow]

I'd bank on GM reliability long before anything German frankly.

Your other points apply equally to the German competition. None are cheap, none are spacious, all are poor choices for cost of ownership, and depreciation in the class isn't stellar. CUE over iDrive is a wash based on my limited experience.

Clearly your personal opinion.

From my current experience - 34,000km and 21 months into the lease, I havn't spent a single penny beyond gas fillups on my 3-series. Only 1 visit to the shop for an oil change. Couldn't be better for reliability. I do NOT care what's going to happen beyond the 4-year lease/warranty term. I'll be in another car by then.

Anyone paying $55k is probably buying new. BMW gives you a total peace of mind for the duration of the lease.
Caddy? I don't want to go to Myers Chevrolet in Kanata to service/fix my luxo car. And I simply don't trust GM.

[whaddaiknow]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

My 328i xDrive drinks 10.5 if I drive it like I stole it, and 9.5 in normal mixed city/Hwy driving.

I guess 10.1 is really good and 13 is reasonable because GM says so. The article had to maintain the positive spin no matter what.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'd bank on GM reliability long before anything German frankly.

Your other points apply equally to the German competition. None are cheap, none are spacious, all are poor choices for cost of ownership, and depreciation in the class isn't stellar. CUE over iDrive is a wash based on my limited experience.

Clearly your personal opinion.

From my current experience - 34,000km and 21 months into the lease, I havn't spent a single penny beyond gas fillups on my 3-series. Only 1 visit to the shop for an oil change. Couldn't be better for reliability. I do NOT care what's going to happen beyond the 4-year lease/warranty term. I'll be in another car by then.

Anyone paying $55k is probably buying new. BMW gives you a total peace of mind for the duration of the lease.
Caddy? I don't want to go to Myers Chevrolet in Kanata to service/fix my luxo car. And I simply don't trust GM.

So, your problem with the ATS is that it's a GM and you have a grudge with GM.

One of my coworkers has a 5 series. His experience is vastly different. Like many others I met over the years, he's had one FGC and will be looking at alternatives for his next ride. The ratings on CR tend to align much closer to his experience than yours.

[Wildsau]

 Wildsau wrote the review.

Ironic, eh?  One has to go to the forum to see what the reviewer actually has to say about the car? GM reads the main articles but don't bother reading the forums? 

Really? In my short time here, I've learned that you enjoy stirring the pot and responding to about half the posts on each article and that's fine - every forum needs a few punching bags to keep things flowing.

But if you didn't catch what I was "actually" saying about the car in my review, I'd say it's time to up your eyeglass prescription. Or to finally take that reading comprehension exam you've been putting off.

I couldn't have been clearer about my thoughts on this car. I loved almost everything about the ATS. Are you saying you didn't get that from what I "actually" wrote in the review?

Can I just take a poll with other readers here? Did anyone else have a difficult time understanding from my review (without having to come to the forums) that I loved the ATS? That I thought it was a fantastic sport sedan? That I took issue with the transmission? And the back seat room? Or did those things just become clear when you came here?

And to further imply that my review leaned toward the manufacturer is equally ridiculous. I gather that neither of these implications are that far out in left field coming from you, my aptly-named friend. Carry on. Stir away.

[Noto]

The ATS is intended to compete in a crowded, well-selling market.  What that market is, is actually fairly wide.  Not everyone with a family is in that target, but it is reasonable.  My lady and I went on a cruise out of Virginia with her parents a while back in her daddy's 3-series bimmer...we fit 4 of us and all of our luggage for the 10 hour ride.  Was it the most comfortable?  No.  Was it unbearable?  No.

That's all to say that this car is aimed at someone who wants a sporty driving machine with SOME practicality - not daily practicality (though those people may also cross-shop).

Questions of reliability are moot at this point...the car's brand new in most every way.

Pricing is actually fairly decent, but the comparison of the 2.0 AWD ATS to the S4 is a very truthful shame for GM - if it were my $, the S4 would win every time.  For $10k less than the A4, I would take the Caddy.  But with that being said, I like the S4 as a value proposition - its 186in length means better room than most in the class, and more equipped than most would want for $53k incl a supercharged V6 (sorry, a 'mechanically-driven turbo' - eff you, Audi, and your stupid nomenclature) is just too good to be true.

The ATS is a great car in its own right, it will have its buyers.  Focusing on subjective negatives isn't really fair - rear-ingress/egress is not the simplest.  Rear-seat room is not huge.  The trunk is not huge.  The CD input slot is in the glovebox (wtf), the CUE is terribly unresponsive (hardware is not upgradable), and it is not quite as refined as the ever-evolving 3-series.  Close the doors at the Auto Show in both cars and you will notice how quiet the Bimmer is.

HOWEVER - focusing on the positives, like this review did beautifully, reminds readers why this car is worthy of competing.  Great job!

Remember - The ATS picks up where the current-gen BMW left off (in driving dynamics)...it will sell.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

 Wildsau wrote the review.

Ironic, eh?  One has to go to the forum to see what the reviewer actually has to say about the car? GM reads the main articles but don't bother reading the forums? 

Really? In my short time here, I've learned that you enjoy stirring the pot and responding to about half the posts on each article and that's fine - every forum needs a few punching bags to keep things flowing.

But if you didn't catch what I was "actually" saying about the car in my review, I'd say it's time to up your eyeglass prescription. Or to finally take that reading comprehension exam you've been putting off.

I couldn't have been clearer about my thoughts on this car. I loved almost everything about the ATS. Are you saying you didn't get that from what I "actually" wrote in the review?

Can I just take a poll with other readers here? Did anyone else have a difficult time understanding from my review (without having to come to the forums) that I loved the ATS? That I thought it was a fantastic sport sedan? That I took issue with the transmission? And the back seat room? Or did those things just become clear when you came here?

And to further imply that my review leaned toward the manufacturer is equally ridiculous. I gather that neither of these implications are that far out in left field coming from you, my aptly-named friend. Carry on. Stir away.

I've been away for a while, and don't know who you are, but I love you! 

[whaddaiknow]

So, your problem with the ATS is that it's a GM and you have a grudge with GM.

One of my coworkers has a 5 series. His experience is vastly different. Like many others I met over the years, he's had one FGC and will be looking at alternatives for his next ride. The ratings on CR tend to align much closer to his experience than yours.

Did your co-worker buy a new 5 -series and having problems with it?
To tell you the truth, any experience beyond what I've had so far would be vastly different as I've had zero issues.
I do NOT have a problem with ATS, I do have a problem with GM pricing it too high since a car in my mind is more than just a good handling tool. There is this "after sales" experience, you know. Buyer's remorse, doors not opening in both Caddies reviewed just recently, etc. It's just not worth paying twice for this car - first $55k of my hard earned cash and then a few million of my nerve cells before I get rid of it.

[ChaosphereIX]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

My 328i xDrive drinks 10.5 if I drive it like I stole it, and 9.5 in normal mixed city/Hwy driving.

I guess 10.1 is really good and 13 is reasonable because GM says so. The article had to maintain the positive spin no matter what.

no, it is reasonable because it is. Drive a highly tuned 2.0T with the boost all the way in the red all the time, like he said he did, and you will get terrible numbers. Look at what some numbers are like from cars that Top Gear tests on the test track...the Ferrari 612 got 1.7mpg or something to that effect. 13 isnt bad for flooring it all the time and with the amount of power he is getting through and AWD platform. My Saab would get that mileage if I caned it everywhere too, as would almost all other similarly powered 2.0Ts...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So, your problem with the ATS is that it's a GM and you have a grudge with GM.

One of my coworkers has a 5 series. His experience is vastly different. Like many others I met over the years, he's had one FGC and will be looking at alternatives for his next ride. The ratings on CR tend to align much closer to his experience than yours.

Did your co-worker buy a new 5 -series and having problems with it?
To tell you the truth, any experience beyond what I've had so far would be vastly different as I've had zero issues.
I do NOT have a problem with ATS, I do have a problem with GM pricing it too high since a car in my mind is more than just a good handling tool. There is this "after sales" experience, you know. Buyer's remorse, doors not opening in both Caddies reviewed just recently, etc. It's just not worth paying twice for this car - first $55k of my hard earned cash and then a few million of my nerve cells before I get rid of it.

Yeah he did. All work is covered by warranty and he usually gets a loaner, but sometimes one isn't available. Dropping the car off repeatedly to address the same issues is a major PITA.

[Wildsau]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

I thought the 13.2 L/100 was reasonable, because it's very much in line with what I'd seen other vehicles weighing the same amount with the same power return when being driven like that.

Is it great fuel economy? Nope. Is it reasonable, considering what others will do? I thought so.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So, your problem with the ATS is that it's a GM and you have a grudge with GM.

One of my coworkers has a 5 series. His experience is vastly different. Like many others I met over the years, he's had one FGC and will be looking at alternatives for his next ride. The ratings on CR tend to align much closer to his experience than yours.

Did your co-worker buy a new 5 -series and having problems with it?
To tell you the truth, any experience beyond what I've had so far would be vastly different as I've had zero issues.
I do NOT have a problem with ATS, I do have a problem with GM pricing it too high since a car in my mind is more than just a good handling tool. There is this "after sales" experience, you know. Buyer's remorse, doors not opening in both Caddies reviewed just recently, etc. It's just not worth paying twice for this car - first $55k of my hard earned cash and then a few million of my nerve cells before I get rid of it.

How do you figure it's overpriced? It's essentially tied for third in it's class.

[Northernridge]

 Wildsau wrote the review.

Ironic, eh?  One has to go to the forum to see what the reviewer actually has to say about the car? GM reads the main articles but don't bother reading the forums? 

Really? In my short time here, I've learned that you enjoy stirring the pot and responding to about half the posts on each article and that's fine - every forum needs a few punching bags to keep things flowing.

But if you didn't catch what I was "actually" saying about the car in my review, I'd say it's time to up your eyeglass prescription. Or to finally take that reading comprehension exam you've been putting off.

I couldn't have been clearer about my thoughts on this car. I loved almost everything about the ATS. Are you saying you didn't get that from what I "actually" wrote in the review?

Can I just take a poll with other readers here? Did anyone else have a difficult time understanding from my review (without having to come to the forums) that I loved the ATS? That I thought it was a fantastic sport sedan? That I took issue with the transmission? And the back seat room? Or did those things just become clear when you came here?

And to further imply that my review leaned toward the manufacturer is equally ridiculous. I gather that neither of these implications are that far out in left field coming from you, my aptly-named friend. Carry on. Stir away.

You're going to turn blue in the face trying to respond to criticism of your writing. Not that the writing is bad, it's that the criticism is endless.    Plus when you hang it out there on a web forum anything can happen, you can't control us plebes.

[wing]

Anything in 13's better be able to tow 10,000lbs IMO.

I've got the 3.6L this week, I just picked it up yesterday but averaging 10.2

[ChaosphereIX]

So, your problem with the ATS is that it's a GM and you have a grudge with GM.

One of my coworkers has a 5 series. His experience is vastly different. Like many others I met over the years, he's had one FGC and will be looking at alternatives for his next ride. The ratings on CR tend to align much closer to his experience than yours.

Did your co-worker buy a new 5 -series and having problems with it?
To tell you the truth, any experience beyond what I've had so far would be vastly different as I've had zero issues.
I do NOT have a problem with ATS, I do have a problem with GM pricing it too high since a car in my mind is more than just a good handling tool. There is this "after sales" experience, you know. Buyer's remorse, doors not opening in both Caddies reviewed just recently, etc. It's just not worth paying twice for this car - first $55k of my hard earned cash and then a few million of my nerve cells before I get rid of it.

How do you figure it's overpriced? It's essentially tied for third in it's class.

I agree, price it against its competition, it is at times much, much cheaper - depending on trim. So no, not overpriced at all.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Anything in 13's better be able to tow 10,000lbs IMO.

I've got the 3.6L this week, I just picked it up yesterday but averaging 10.2

When I dropped off my 3.6R, it was showing 14.5L/100km. AWD, 256hp and 1700kg and cool temps, it all kind of adds up.

[ChaosphereIX]

Anything in 13's better be able to tow 10,000lbs IMO.

I've got the 3.6L this week, I just picked it up yesterday but averaging 10.2

drive that 3.6 like you stole it, as the reviewer did for his 2.0T, and you will see some poor numbers as well. Use the fast pedal a lot, you use gas a lot. Not magic, just chemistry/physics at work. Yes you are getting 10.2, but are you driving like you are in the chase scene from Bullit?

[whaddaiknow]

no, it is reasonable because it is. Drive a highly tuned 2.0T with the boost all the way in the red all the time, like he said he did, and you will get terrible numbers. Look at what some numbers are like from cars that Top Gear tests on the test track...the Ferrari 612 got 1.7mpg or something to that effect. 13 isnt bad for flooring it all the time and with the amount of power he is getting through and AWD platform. My Saab would get that mileage if I caned it everywhere too, as would almost all other similarly powered 2.0Ts...

Do you belive that the author was testing it on the track rather than on public roads?
Do you believe it is even possible/tolerable to keep "the boost all the way in the red all the time" during a test like this?
Anyway, moot point.

[ChaosphereIX]

no, it is reasonable because it is. Drive a highly tuned 2.0T with the boost all the way in the red all the time, like he said he did, and you will get terrible numbers. Look at what some numbers are like from cars that Top Gear tests on the test track...the Ferrari 612 got 1.7mpg or something to that effect. 13 isnt bad for flooring it all the time and with the amount of power he is getting through and AWD platform. My Saab would get that mileage if I caned it everywhere too, as would almost all other similarly powered 2.0Ts...

Do you belive that the author was testing it on the track rather than on public roads?
Do you believe it is even possible/tolerable to keep "the boost all the way in the red all the time" during a test like this?
Anyway, moot point.

he said he was driving it hard. Of course it was public roads, doesnt make it any less able to be driven hard with flooring it and stomping on the brakes to do it all over again. That is what I do when I drive hard. Drive it like you stole it or are in a race, watch the gas go boom. I dont know the percentages of boost to off boost he was driving, doesnt matter. Driven hard, 13 is not bad for that car.

[whaddaiknow]

 Wildsau wrote the review.

Ironic, eh?  One has to go to the forum to see what the reviewer actually has to say about the car? GM reads the main articles but don't bother reading the forums? 

Really? In my short time here, I've learned that you enjoy stirring the pot and responding to about half the posts on each article and that's fine - every forum needs a few punching bags to keep things flowing.

But if you didn't catch what I was "actually" saying about the car in my review, I'd say it's time to up your eyeglass prescription. Or to finally take that reading comprehension exam you've been putting off.

I couldn't have been clearer about my thoughts on this car. I loved almost everything about the ATS. Are you saying you didn't get that from what I "actually" wrote in the review?

Can I just take a poll with other readers here? Did anyone else have a difficult time understanding from my review (without having to come to the forums) that I loved the ATS? That I thought it was a fantastic sport sedan? That I took issue with the transmission? And the back seat room? Or did those things just become clear when you came here?

And to further imply that my review leaned toward the manufacturer is equally ridiculous. I gather that neither of these implications are that far out in left field coming from you, my aptly-named friend. Carry on. Stir away.

Jee, you ARE uptight.

Let me just quote you, 'k?

hot-rod 3.6L rear-wheel-drive version of the ATS. And it was spectacular
Fuel economy is good, not great. This ATS is rated at 10.3 L/100 km in the city, and 6.6 L/100 km on the highway
I netted a surprising 10.1 L/100 km. That’s really good for a 270-hp sports sedan. And within the rating range
I ... loved the long, vertical strip...
I liked the handsome 18-inch rims...
...look like they mean business...
This is my kind of suspension...
The ATS is very poised...
you’ve been paired with a very competent dance partner...


Page 2

The steering was flawless... perfectly connected feeling
I found the turbo engine to be tremendous
the torque is relentless
//////////
The six-speed automatic transmission is where the ATS fell a bit flat for me. It’s very smooth and luxurious, but I couldn’t find a real sport mode where it was truly aggressive and held the shift points longer. You can shift it manually using paddles or the gear selector and the shifts are pretty fast.
(doesn't sound like you had a quibble with it at all)
//////////

The four-cylinder sounds great
The brakes are excellent
The all-wheel-drive system is also very good. Perfect for everyday driving
sticking to it like glue, and coming out of it like a champ
Materials are lovely. You’ll find soft, stitched, textured material with a premium feel throughout. Fit and finish was very good, and the car felt very well built and rock-solid.
////////////
The ATS feels tidy (TIDY is how you describe that? - funny you...)– not too big, not too small. My five-foot-ten frame never felt cramped, but anyone much taller could be (not WILL BE but rather COULD BE) running out of headroom up front
////////////

Styling-wise, I really enjoyed the toned-down feel in the ATS
The leather seats – power-adjustable, heated, driver’s side memory – are fantastic
The heated steering wheel feels great
////////////
The centre stack starts with Cadillac’s new CUE (Cadillac User Experience) system – it’s handled by an 8-inch touchscreen and manages the media, navigation, phone and vehicle settings. It’s a beautiful screen and a pretty decent user interface (who are you facking kidding?). The screen also handles the back-up camera
////////////

The 10-speaker BOSE sound system ... sounds spectacular
In terms of driver tech, there is some cool kit here
I found a cool surprise
/////////
As a matter of fact, that sport factor will be a bit more than some want, and that ride might be a bit too firm for some
////////


And the ATS isn’t just good. It’s awesome
The ATS is fantastic and will only get better (is that a FACT? Base on WHAT - past success? )

================================

Now, do you seriously call that a balanced review? Really?

The raving first page prompted just one thing - GET A ROOM already!

Let's get back to this discussion in a couple of years and see how many people will vote with their money if GM insists on the current pricing.