Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD Premium

[Sir Osis of Liver]

In January it outsold the A4 by a bit, Lexus IS and Volvo S60 by lots, and is essentially tied with the Infiniti G. It was outsold only by the 3 series and C-class. The redesigned 3 is being trounced by the C class so far. It's hard to see how a brand new entrant selling in those numbers is overpriced.

Then there's this:

... But an even bigger story was the success of Cadillac, increasing 46.9 percent year-over-year, and posting a 94-percent retail sales take rate, the highest since 1990.  This was achieved despite sales dropping for four of the eight vehicles Cadillac sold in January 2013.
 
How was this possible? Look no farther than the award-winning ATS. Tallying 2,781 sales for the month, 56 percent of which were conquest sales, or did not trade in a vehicle. What’s more, one-fifth of ATS buyers are under the age of 35, twice the rate of Cadillac as a whole. As the 2013 North American Car of the Year, it’s not a surprise.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/02/cadillac-posts-best-retail-sales-month-in-23-years-in-united-states/

What if we tried to read through the fluff?
Sales are still dropping for four of the eight vehicles Cadillac sold in January 2013?!?!?!

Only 20% of buyers are under 35. Or, in other words, 80% of ATS buyers are over 35 - Caddy is still an old man's car. The stigma is hard to beat.

Of the 20% who are under 35, how many are paying "BMW money" - $45k+ (before freight and taxes). THEN we can talk about conquest sales and such.

January and February are the slowest months for sales. So the numbers may change dramatically. People may be doing their taxes, investing in 401k or RRSPs and saving up for a real car like S4

The current IS long in the tooth and is not worth comparing against. The new IS is coming out soon then we'll talk.

Too many questions, and the numbers are way too insignificant to be conclusive.

Shave 10k off the (as tested) ATS, and it will be a hit.

46% increase in year over year sales and 94% retail sales indicate a huge turnaround for the brand.

The median new car buyer is 56 years old in the US. Having 20% of sales go to those under 35 is excellent in this segment. Median Cadillac buyer was 58 last I looked, way down from the high sixties of 10 years ago.

Real live people are buying it with their own money. They seem to find some value there. Cadillac would be stupid to charge less.

[whaddaiknow]

well nobody has called the ploce yet on me. And my tranny has held up great thanks. Also, what do you consider the direct competition to this car? I will price it out and see if it really is as overpriced as you say it is...I am thinking A4 2.0T Premium, BMW 328Xi, Merc C300 4Matic, Volvo S60 2.5T, etc. I priced out a 3.6 full optioned one a little while ago for a client, and it stacked very, very favourably against the competition like 335, S4, C350, and S60 R-Design. Will update for you...

You see, it depends on whether you perceive Caddy to be tooling in the same playpen as the FGC. If you believe it is, then the price may be competitive. I grade Caddy lower than FGC and probaly lower than the premium FJC, and believe it should be priced accordingly. Something like Toyota Avalon vs Lexus ES. Equivalent on paper, and yet the Avalon is priced some 20% cheaper.

ATS canNOT compete with 335, S4, or C350 on brand power. Germans aren't going to give up market share just like that. Look at what they are doing. They keep bringing new cars and models, differentiating withing the same model lines, diversifying, etc.
1 series
X1
Classic line in 3-series
6 series
B250
GLK
CLA
etc etc etc

Caddy came up with ATS, and the Germans will overwhelm GM with a whole slew of new products that will drown it in no time.

It's like a former dropout claiming scholarship because he aced one test. GM must consistently turn out good quality products for a number of years before they can truly re-establish themselves as serious players in the luxury market.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

well nobody has called the ploce yet on me. And my tranny has held up great thanks. Also, what do you consider the direct competition to this car? I will price it out and see if it really is as overpriced as you say it is...I am thinking A4 2.0T Premium, BMW 328Xi, Merc C300 4Matic, Volvo S60 2.5T, etc. I priced out a 3.6 full optioned one a little while ago for a client, and it stacked very, very favourably against the competition like 335, S4, C350, and S60 R-Design. Will update for you...

You see, it depends on whether you perceive Caddy to be tooling in the same playpen as the FGC. If you believe it is, then the price may be competitive. I grade Caddy lower than FGC and probaly lower than the premium FJC, and believe it should be priced accordingly. Something like Toyota Avalon vs Lexus ES. Equivalent on paper, and yet the Avalon is priced some 20% cheaper.

ATS canNOT compete with 335, S4, or C350 on brand power. Germans aren't going to give up market share just like that. Look at what they are doing. They keep bringing new cars and models, differentiating withing the same model lines, diversifying, etc.
1 series
X1
Classic line in 3-series
6 series
B250
GLK
CLA
etc etc etc

Caddy came up with ATS, and the Germans will overwhelm GM with a whole slew of new products that will drown it in no time.

It's like a former dropout claiming scholarship because he aced one test. GM must consistently turn out good quality products for a number of years before they can truly re-establish themselves as serious players in the luxury market.

And you're delusional. Most people have no issue accepting Cadillac as a premium brand.

Anyone who's owned an unreliable FGC is unlikely to keep them on a pedestal.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The SRX is the second best seller in the US in it's class. The CTS is still doing well. New Cadillacs in general are doing fine.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And it's not like Cadillac is standing still either:

[whaddaiknow]

And you're delusional. Most people have no issue accepting Cadillac as a premium brand.

Anyone who's owned an unreliable FGC is unlikely to keep them on a pedestal.

Then I'm ok being delusional. But I sure as h3ll ain't feeding a dropout.
I may be lucky but of the 2 FGC I've owned so far, both have been very reliable.

[Fobroader]

I dont know, if I was in the market for an 3/A4/C class sized car, Id definetly scoot over to Cadillac.....and go home in a used CTS-V....a black one....so I can feel like Darth Vader. Caddy has been doing pretty well for itself, the Escalade/Escalanche has the rapper/basketball player/drug dealer/rich with horrid taste market buttoned up, the CTS is a great car, the ATS is more than competive....sure they have that large FWD land barge thing, but the traditionalists will be all over that. I wouldnt count Caddy out at all, they were down for a while, but recently they have come back to being a good contender in whatever class they are playing in. With all the horror stories about FGC car reliability and repair cost I hear around here, hell, getting service along side a Malibu and a Sierra doesnt sound that bad...of course Im not snooty, I dont care if the showroom has chromed metal, glass and receptionists that wear black leather and have a geman accent 

[ChaosphereIX]

well nobody has called the ploce yet on me. And my tranny has held up great thanks. Also, what do you consider the direct competition to this car? I will price it out and see if it really is as overpriced as you say it is...I am thinking A4 2.0T Premium, BMW 328Xi, Merc C300 4Matic, Volvo S60 2.5T, etc. I priced out a 3.6 full optioned one a little while ago for a client, and it stacked very, very favourably against the competition like 335, S4, C350, and S60 R-Design. Will update for you...

You see, it depends on whether you perceive Caddy to be tooling in the same playpen as the FGC. If you believe it is, then the price may be competitive. I grade Caddy lower than FGC and probaly lower than the premium FJC, and believe it should be priced accordingly. Something like Toyota Avalon vs Lexus ES. Equivalent on paper, and yet the Avalon is priced some 20% cheaper.

ATS canNOT compete with 335, S4, or C350 on brand power. Germans aren't going to give up market share just like that. Look at what they are doing. They keep bringing new cars and models, differentiating withing the same model lines, diversifying, etc.
1 series
X1
Classic line in 3-series
6 series
B250
GLK
CLA
etc etc etc

Caddy came up with ATS, and the Germans will overwhelm GM with a whole slew of new products that will drown it in no time.

It's like a former dropout claiming scholarship because he aced one test. GM must consistently turn out good quality products for a number of years before they can truly re-establish themselves as serious players in the luxury market.

And you're delusional. Most people have no issue accepting Cadillac as a premium brand.

Anyone who's owned an unreliable FGC is unlikely to keep them on a pedestal.

I agree, delusional. Pricing it the same as an Avalon? Smoking crack there my friend. Caddy has no problem with being on par with the FGC now, same as nobody has an issue with paying $30k for a Sonata now, not the case even a couple of years ago...

Caddys might not have the badge power as the roundel or rings or star, but they certainly are not Value Village either. They are pricing it well, could stand to lose a couple of 1000s here or there but overall priced accordingly to what it competes with dynamically.

[whaddaiknow]

And it's not like Cadillac is standing still either:

That's the kind of effort I was talking about. ATS-V will do the brand good even if they don't sell a whole lot of them. More of a showcase of technological advancements than an actual bread and butter car.
Though, OTOH, the GTR didn't turn Nissan into a sales success for the whole brand.

[Mike]

And it's not like Cadillac is standing still either:

That's the kind of effort I was talking about. ATS-V will do the brand good even if they don't sell a whole lot of them. More of a showcase of technological advancements than an actual bread and butter car.
Though, OTOH, the GTR didn't turn Nissan into a sales success for the whole brand.

True, but a Halo is still needed in this segment.  To fully gain respect I think the ATS needs to run with the likes of the M3, C 63, IS F, RS4 etc.

[rrocket]

^^Mike...I disagree.  The Infiniti Gs have no such halo car in the segment and they do just fine.

[Mike]

^^Mike...I disagree.  The Infiniti Gs have no such halo car in the segment and they do just fine.

True, but I think they had the advantage of the G coupe which blew away the Germans in style and power when they first came out. 

[SaskSpecV]

Wow, I checked the forum this morning and there were like 4 comments on this thread.
Now it seems the ATS has turned into the love child of the Sonata and the Regal...

[Noto]

My Outback had 256hp and AWD and was showing 14.5L/100 when I turned it in. And I was driving normally. If the ATS was showing 13L/100km after aggressive driving, it was doing quite well.

I've been wondering about SirO's 14.5.  The Berlin taxi has averaged 10.0L/100km since new or about 14,000km. Its 3.5L V6 puts out 305 hp, the car is AWD and weighs 450 pounds more than the Outback. I don't get it. Even our Ridgeline has averaged about 12.5L/100km over 90,000km and it's a bit of a pig.

Fuel economy has really gotten better by leaps and bounds in the last 2 years IMO.  The outback has always been horrible.

SirO, I have great respect for you, but here's my take:

The Subaru EZ36D (3.6L H6) was released in 1999...so we're talking a 14 year old engine block.  It was essentially their old 4 with 2 extra cylinders stuck on the back.  It hasn't received any "skyactiv"-like treatments (i.e. no reduction in friction, no major changes).  I am a HUGE Subie die-hard, but I would never buy a vehicle with that engine THESE DAYS.  I'm sure it was nice in years past.

Let's also not forget that your outback had a 5EAT...14.5L/100km is reasonable in the winter considering the EPA numbers are 18/25 (or 13 city, 9.4 highway).  Bolt the new high-torque 'lineartronic' CVT onto the 3.6 and pop it into the Outback and it'd easily gain 3-4 MPG, if not more.  Give it direct injection, reduce internal friction, remove the asymmetrical rod, I'd wager it'd meet 10L/100km.  Comparing a powertrain that old to the all-new powertrain in the ATS is ludicrous, as is also true of the "Berlin Taxi".

In January it outsold the A4 by a bit, Lexus IS and Volvo S60 by lots, and is essentially tied with the Infiniti G. It was outsold only by the 3 series and C-class. The redesigned 3 is being trounced by the C class so far. It's hard to see how a brand new entrant selling in those numbers is overpriced.

That's horse crap - the IS, S60, Infiniti (now) Q50 all have their next generations at auto shows or in the news.   Their sales of remaining models will be discounted, but they are not hoping for huge sale numbers.  The A4's poor sales I attribute to poor dealership manners...God I hated every Audi dealership I ever entered - raging a-holes (referring, of course, to the A-pillars Volvo had on a concept  - thanks safristi for that!!!).


The ATS starts at $35,190.  A number that obviously would quickly add up.  In this segment, in Canada, the 2.0T RWD Auto will probably be volume along with the AWD of the same set up.  The RWD is $38,635 for the Auto (and the stick is $1500 less), and the AWD is $39,710.  The car isn't overpriced at all - the OPTION PACKAGES are.  Come on, people, the base comes with heated seats...and the base doesn't have the crappy CUE...sounds, to me, like the base package is the one that should sell.  $9,000 for CUE, HIDs, radar cruise-control, and some other options is insane.  Keep that crap off my performance car and we've got a deal.

All ya'll thinking this car is $55k are optioning the thing up with every possible box checked - would any of you REALLY buy it when you can have the same car for $15,000 less, withholding a few niceties?

[Neromanceres]

And it's not like Cadillac is standing still either:

Yup not to mention that later this year GM is going to show off the all new larger 2014 Cadillac CTS.  The CTS will grow to 5 series size and will be based off of the streched Alpha (ATS) platform.

The next couple of years will be interesting because Cadillac is planning to bring some big guns to the table (including some diesel's as well).

[rrocket]

Escaldade is getting a full redesign too...

[ArticSteve]

Huge margins in that vehicle.  The most successful Cadillac in recent history which ironically is a Silverado.

[Noto]

including some diesel's as well

...let's wait and see how those pan out.  My guess?  Over-over-OVER priced.

[Snowman]

And it's not like Cadillac is standing still either:

Rumor has it ATS-V will be powered by a twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter V-6 that should make around 380 hp. This has my full attention.

[Snowman]