Topic: Upside Down Major

[safristi]

    XYZ ..

[JohnnyMac]

Pretty big derailment, going from poor financial decisions/harassment of sales people to reproductive habits, but pretty typical around here.  Just surprised it took to Page 50, rather than word 50.   

Doesn't having too many kids classify as poor financial decisions?  I'm only joking of course.  I've been with my wife for 16 years (I'm 35 years old) and we've never once considered having a child.  I don't even understand the mindset of someone who wants to have a kid, little on having babies back to back like the original couple we are discussing.

Interesting.  I am 36 with two kids.  I know I would be happy with or without kids.  "Don't even understand the mindset of someone having kids?" So you don't understand people who are parents?

No what I'm saying is I don't understand the mindset of someone who wants kids.  I can understand subjectively why people want kids, they're cute, you can teach them things, they are your creation, and the joy of having that parent child bond.  I totally get the appeal, but I just don't have the gene inside me that wants to create life.  It actually scares the bejesus out of me.  I get tired after only a few hours playing with a child.  Kids love me and gravitate to me, so much so that we only go to adult only resorts.

Not saying that being a parent is a bad thing, just not for me or my wife.  We'll stick to dogs.

[Solstice2006]

Mrs tpl and I talked about kids before we were married. We both had siblings 10 years younger so we saw the baby thing when we were old enough to realize how much work it was and how expensive.   We decided not to have children and so we did not have any.   Our friends, here and those back in the UK have an average of about 0.75 kids each well below replacement level.  All that generation are grown up now of course and they are on track to have even fewer kids.

I have heard kids are expensive.  I think it varies.  If you decide to put them in daycare everyday until they are in school.  And if you decide to pay for all their post secondary education, and pay for their hobbies, and phone.  Then yes.  In our case, I don't notice much difference in the budget if we had kids vs if we didn't.  Probably more expensive to drink and smoke. 

[johngenx]

Kids are VERY EXPENSIVE.  If you're about to have kids, don't do the math.  Stop reading this now.  Now, of course, the calculations are unique to each person/family, but you get the idea...

We played "stay at home" and the opportunity cost of having a parent at home was high.  For some of the time, we had BOTH at home.  Ugh.  My quick calculation on that shows the costs at probably $600,000 conservatively.  Daycare would have been cheaper, but we chose to spend the extra money because we're a family fortunate enough to be able to.  Many have no choice.

Feeding, clothing and on and on.  Ouch. No idea.  A lot.

Arts and sports and other activities/education?  We're big spenders here, at least $5K a year, some years more.  This year it's going to be over $10K easily.  There's lots of ways to minimize these costs, but it's a big deal to us, so this budget line is high on the priority list.

Education will be $$ if your kid is thinking law or medicine or something like that.  Even regular post secondary ain't cheap.  My own progeny has mapped out a career path that so far looks to have course/exam bills of around $60-70K - cheaper than med school I think, but still a lot.  Luckily it's spaced out over 7-10 years so that helps ease the pain.

Worth it?  That's an individual decision.  To us, still worth at 10x the actual cost.

Back on the topic.  A friend of mine's husband is in the oil patch.  He's lucky in that his job is in refining and he's still well employed.  But, many of his friends are on hard times right now.  One poor guy he knows is trying to unload his massively modded F350 and having no luck.  The kicker?  It's worth maybe $40K and somehow, in some incredible way, he owes nearly $110,000 on it.

An upside down lifetime achievement award?

[tpl]

Mrs tpl and I talked about kids before we were married. We both had siblings 10 years younger so we saw the baby thing when we were old enough to realize how much work it was and how expensive.   We decided not to have children and so we did not have any.   Our friends, here and those back in the UK have an average of about 0.75 kids each well below replacement level.  All that generation are grown up now of course and they are on track to have even fewer kids.

I have heard kids are expensive.  I think it varies.  If you decide to put them in daycare everyday until they are in school.  And if you decide to pay for all their post secondary education, and pay for their hobbies, and phone.  Then yes.  In our case, I don't notice much difference in the budget if we had kids vs if we didn't.  Probably more expensive to drink and smoke.

I don't remember us ever discussing daycare costs and in our day in the UK Uni tuition was free.  But there would have been lost income, extra costs in all kinds of ways and...   loss of freedom to be as damn selfish as we wanted!      That was 40+ years ago...the past is a different country.
We have never regretted the decision.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Kids are VERY EXPENSIVE.  If you're about to have kids, don't do the math.  Stop reading this now.  Now, of course, the calculations are unique to each person/family, but you get the idea...

We played "stay at home" and the opportunity cost of having a parent at home was high.  For some of the time, we had BOTH at home.  Ugh.  My quick calculation on that shows the costs at probably $600,000 conservatively.  Daycare would have been cheaper, but we chose to spend the extra money because we're a family fortunate enough to be able to.  Many have no choice.

Feeding, clothing and on and on.  Ouch. No idea.  A lot.

Arts and sports and other activities/education?  We're big spenders here, at least $5K a year, some years more.  This year it's going to be over $10K easily.  There's lots of ways to minimize these costs, but it's a big deal to us, so this budget line is high on the priority list.

Education will be $$ if your kid is thinking law or medicine or something like that.  Even regular post secondary ain't cheap.  My own progeny has mapped out a career path that so far looks to have course/exam bills of around $60-70K - cheaper than med school I think, but still a lot.  Luckily it's spaced out over 7-10 years so that helps ease the pain.

Worth it?  That's an individual decision.  To us, still worth at 10x the actual cost.

Back on the topic.  A friend of mine's husband is in the oil patch.  He's lucky in that his job is in refining and he's still well employed.  But, many of his friends are on hard times right now.  One poor guy he knows is trying to unload his massively modded F350 and having no luck.  The kicker?  It's worth maybe $40K and somehow, in some incredible way, he owes nearly $110,000 on it.
U
An upside down lifetime achievement award?

Why would he be driving a F-350 , a friend had a millwright company and he had a Ram 2500 and that good enough for him

[johngenx]

Why would he be driving a F-350 , a friend had a millwright company and he had a Ram 2500 and that good enough for him

Because Alberta.

[wing]

LOL My brother was paying for my nieces ski habit (racing and stuff).  She quit.

He bought a new camaro and a new silverado in the same year.

THAT'S how much the skiing was costing him!

[2JDM]

I'm glad that I'm single with no kids. 

I'm also glad that I owe less than what my car is worth. 

[quadzilla]

My sister lives in the USA and has two very smart kids. One wants to go to MIT. Can you say broke. 

[sailor723]

My sister lives in the USA and has two very smart kids. One wants to go to MIT. Can you say broke. 

I think in the US (at least with the top tier schools) the hard part is getting in. Most of them are so well endowed that student aid can make them affordable for most who are admitted. Canadian schools are certainly cheaper on the surface but scholarships are much less generous and are almost always merit rather than needs based.

I do know that kids cost....period. We just finished buying a BSc from Acadia last year. I've never had the courage to add it up in detail but a guesstimate would be 80K+/-.  She's working right now but it looks like grad school next fall. With my luck it will be Vancouver ,,,home of the $2,000/month 550 sq/ft  apartment. 

[BWII]

I get tired after only a few hours playing with a child.  Kids love me and gravitate to me, so much so that we only go to adult only resorts.

I see why...I found your photo after a brief search.

[EV-Light]

My sister lives in the USA and has two very smart kids. One wants to go to MIT. Can you say broke. 

I think in the US (at least with the top tier schools) the hard part is getting in. Most of them are so well endowed that student aid can make them affordable for most who are admitted. Canadian schools are certainly cheaper on the surface but scholarships are much less generous and are almost always merit rather than needs based.

I do know that kids cost....period. We just finished buying a BSc from Acadia last year. I've never had the courage to add it up in detail but a guesstimate would be 80K+/-.  She's working right now but it looks like grad school next fall. With my luck it will be Vancouver ,,,home of the $2,000/month 550 sq/ft  apartment. 

Grad school with parent support? Gosh...[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]


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[BWII]

My kid(s) have to pay their own way through school. For #1, no problem...#2 might end up in community college...or won't do post secondary. Hard to say, he's not driven like #1. Still, I aint payin' for it, so if you want to be better, you best be prepared to do it on your own.  That's not to say we don't help. My wife will make enough food on the weekend he rarely needs to buy groceries, and we might buy him 2 or 3 tanks of gas in a year, a gift, otherwise, he pays his own way.

[pi314]

My kid(s) have to pay their own way through school. For #1, no problem...#2 might end up in community college...or won't do post secondary. Hard to say, he's not driven like #1. Still, I aint payin' for it, so if you want to be better, you best be prepared to do it on your own.  That's not to say we don't help. My wife will make enough food on the weekend he rarely needs to buy groceries, and we might buy him 2 or 3 tanks of gas in a year, a gift, otherwise, he pays his own way.

Didn't he also have your car to use?


My parents helped me out considerably for my undergrad. I didn't blow all my summer earnings away (though there was some of that), so I did pay for a portion, but that's about it.

While they would help support graduate school since they're super pro-education, I certainly intend to pay for my own.

But I'm pretty sure I've been expensive even without the academic support. And I'm not sure anyone has kids these days to benefit financially, though NB has rules requiring AFAIK. Terrible motivation though.

[johngenx]

I certainly think kids should be investing in their own education.  The unfortunate thing for my daughter is that she can't live at home while attending school.  It means that she has to live in small mountain towns and her earning potential during the process is not great.

So, the deal we have with her is that she has to support herself - house, clothe and feed herself, and then we'll pay the course and exam fees.

[craigq]

Grad school with parent support?

My kid(s) have to pay their own way through school.

We have one child, and RESP's are such an easy investment tool we couldn't not do it (a $2500 investment from yourself gives you a $500 investment from the govt.). I know I really shouldn't give out financial advice, but if people can I suggest they at least do the minimum RESP investment to get the $500 portion from the govt.

[BWII]

My kid(s) have to pay their own way through school. For #1, no problem...#2 might end up in community college...or won't do post secondary. Hard to say, he's not driven like #1. Still, I aint payin' for it, so if you want to be better, you best be prepared to do it on your own.  That's not to say we don't help. My wife will make enough food on the weekend he rarely needs to buy groceries, and we might buy him 2 or 3 tanks of gas in a year, a gift, otherwise, he pays his own way.

Didn't he also have your car to use?


My parents helped me out considerably for my undergrad. I didn't blow all my summer earnings away (though there was some of that), so I did pay for a portion, but that's about it.

While they would help support graduate school since they're super pro-education, I certainly intend to pay for my own.

But I'm pretty sure I've been expensive even without the academic support. And I'm not sure anyone has kids these days to benefit financially, though NB has rules requiring AFAIK. Terrible motivation though.

Yes, he had the Sonic...I'll give you that. But he had to pay for his own gas (most of the time).  Now he has his own to maintain and pay for (well, it's all paid for - no debt kind of guy).

We have one child, and RESP's are such an easy investment tool we couldn't not do it (a $2500 investment from yourself gives you a $500 investment from the govt.). I know I really shouldn't give out financial advice, but if people can I suggest they at least do the minimum RESP investment to get the $500 portion from the govt.

We messed that up with the first one.  Good thing he's smart with his $.  We did it for the 2nd though, so yeah, that will def help in his case. 

[Gurgie]

I started RESP's late for my 2 boys, but I've gotten some great results in a short time! Once they both weren't in after school care anymore, I just switched that payment over to a monthly RESP contribution. I have 5yrs till my 1st hits post secondary, so by then there should be a good chunk to help him out. I'll expect them both to contribute, no free rides! Also hoping they choose to stay in Ottawa for school as that will obviously make it easier

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[craigq]

Also hoping they choose to stay in Ottawa for school as that will obviously make it easier

You and I both !