Topic: Upside Down Major

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I wish mining got bailouts.

That was sorta my point.  No problem spending billions for 10,000 GM employees.

Kinda makes $2 billion to the oil industry seem stingy in comparison, eh?

$2B a year, that covers off the auto bailout every few years. And it's money going to an industry that's hugely profitable. It's a complete waste of money.

If $2B a year in subsidies were going to renewables, we'd be a long way to generating as much wealth from that industry as currently generated from fossil fuels.

The mining industry is hugely subsidized in that they get off scot free from environmental cleanups. They just fold up shop and let governments deal with tailings.

Been a long time since that as happened as companies are now required to provide financial assurance in the form of a deposit or bond to governments and communities as a guarantee that the resources to meet closure requirements will be available.

Yeah. The bonds are never even remotely close to the actual cost of the cleanup.

Here's a recent example. Wabush mines was closed the cleanup fund is just $40M, and Cliffs' Canadian arm has filed for protection. It's standard practice.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/canada-mine-dust-idUSL1N0Z417120150619

Then there are all the tactics happening in the third world.

[Triple Bob]

I understand but let me put it to you this way. When I crashed my first car (Cobalt SS/SC) my wife and I had to share her car (Corolla) for a year or so because I couldn't afford (I could afford but didn't want to get into stupid debt) a replacement car. I saved up and bought my WRX in cash. Having that restraint helped me big time financially in the long run.

If you like cars and just want to update and go into manageable debt (based on your life) that's one thing but these people seem like they're going upside without consciously understanding what's going on. This is what I have a problem with.

I don't this had to do with some people being lucky born into wealth or better situations - it has to do with not being reflexive AT ALL about one's financial situation.

I agree entirely.  Which is why, despite all the ribbing on here for moving from a 535i to a diesel wagon, I am keeping it for much longer than I normally would. 

[rrocket]

First thing this morning I have a nice Mitsu Evo to appraise. Base but nice car, 21000 km. Trade value: $30,000. Amount owing $48,000. Customer has owned it for two months.

The back story is worse than the facts: Boyfriend convinces girlfriend to trade in her SUV (don't know what), and co-sign the loan to buy Evo. Boyfriend loses his job, loses his driver's licence. girlfriend can't drive the manual trans Evo, and is now pregnant. Girlfriend's parents knew they'd be upside-down and were prepared to kick in a couple thousand. Massive stress inducing reality check for all involved, except me of course. 

Note to parents: I have seen variations on this story play out many times over the years. If you have daughters, somehow beat it into their heads that they must never, ever co-sign for anybody's loan, especially a boyfriend's. And if you have sons, teach them not to be a worthless piece of chit that has to sponge off their girlfriend.

Agreed on the note to parents but one should also add another note to sons out there, always wear a condom and make sure its one of yours.

Adding.....Make sure you bring your own condom, you never know how crazy she is as she could have already poked a hole in it.

And dispose of it. Ensure no viable genetic material can be recovered from it.

No one has ever got pregnant with oral or PIITB.   

[Snowman]

First thing this morning I have a nice Mitsu Evo to appraise. Base but nice car, 21000 km. Trade value: $30,000. Amount owing $48,000. Customer has owned it for two months.

The back story is worse than the facts: Boyfriend convinces girlfriend to trade in her SUV (don't know what), and co-sign the loan to buy Evo. Boyfriend loses his job, loses his driver's licence. girlfriend can't drive the manual trans Evo, and is now pregnant. Girlfriend's parents knew they'd be upside-down and were prepared to kick in a couple thousand. Massive stress inducing reality check for all involved, except me of course. 

Note to parents: I have seen variations on this story play out many times over the years. If you have daughters, somehow beat it into their heads that they must never, ever co-sign for anybody's loan, especially a boyfriend's. And if you have sons, teach them not to be a worthless piece of chit that has to sponge off their girlfriend.

Agreed on the note to parents but one should also add another note to sons out there, always wear a condom and make sure its one of yours.

Adding.....Make sure you bring your own condom, you never know how crazy she is as she could have already poked a hole in it.

And dispose of it. Ensure no viable genetic material can be recovered from it.

No one has ever got pregnant with oral or PIITB.   

No, but is a collection method.

[rrocket]

First thing this morning I have a nice Mitsu Evo to appraise. Base but nice car, 21000 km. Trade value: $30,000. Amount owing $48,000. Customer has owned it for two months.

The back story is worse than the facts: Boyfriend convinces girlfriend to trade in her SUV (don't know what), and co-sign the loan to buy Evo. Boyfriend loses his job, loses his driver's licence. girlfriend can't drive the manual trans Evo, and is now pregnant. Girlfriend's parents knew they'd be upside-down and were prepared to kick in a couple thousand. Massive stress inducing reality check for all involved, except me of course. 

Note to parents: I have seen variations on this story play out many times over the years. If you have daughters, somehow beat it into their heads that they must never, ever co-sign for anybody's loan, especially a boyfriend's. And if you have sons, teach them not to be a worthless piece of chit that has to sponge off their girlfriend.

Agreed on the note to parents but one should also add another note to sons out there, always wear a condom and make sure its one of yours.

Adding.....Make sure you bring your own condom, you never know how crazy she is as she could have already poked a hole in it.

And dispose of it. Ensure no viable genetic material can be recovered from it.

No one has ever got pregnant with oral or PIITB.   

No, but is a collection method.

What a horrific visual!   

[Snowman]

First thing this morning I have a nice Mitsu Evo to appraise. Base but nice car, 21000 km. Trade value: $30,000. Amount owing $48,000. Customer has owned it for two months.

The back story is worse than the facts: Boyfriend convinces girlfriend to trade in her SUV (don't know what), and co-sign the loan to buy Evo. Boyfriend loses his job, loses his driver's licence. girlfriend can't drive the manual trans Evo, and is now pregnant. Girlfriend's parents knew they'd be upside-down and were prepared to kick in a couple thousand. Massive stress inducing reality check for all involved, except me of course. 

Note to parents: I have seen variations on this story play out many times over the years. If you have daughters, somehow beat it into their heads that they must never, ever co-sign for anybody's loan, especially a boyfriend's. And if you have sons, teach them not to be a worthless piece of chit that has to sponge off their girlfriend.

Agreed on the note to parents but one should also add another note to sons out there, always wear a condom and make sure its one of yours.

Adding.....Make sure you bring your own condom, you never know how crazy she is as she could have already poked a hole in it.

And dispose of it. Ensure no viable genetic material can be recovered from it.

No one has ever got pregnant with oral or PIITB.   

No, but is a collection method.

What a horrific visual!   

I know a guy who swears a chick that gave him a BJ then got pregnant. He even had a paternity test done before he committed to financial support and eventually marriage. I would rather make monthly payments than live with that.

[rrocket]

First thing this morning I have a nice Mitsu Evo to appraise. Base but nice car, 21000 km. Trade value: $30,000. Amount owing $48,000. Customer has owned it for two months.

The back story is worse than the facts: Boyfriend convinces girlfriend to trade in her SUV (don't know what), and co-sign the loan to buy Evo. Boyfriend loses his job, loses his driver's licence. girlfriend can't drive the manual trans Evo, and is now pregnant. Girlfriend's parents knew they'd be upside-down and were prepared to kick in a couple thousand. Massive stress inducing reality check for all involved, except me of course. 

Note to parents: I have seen variations on this story play out many times over the years. If you have daughters, somehow beat it into their heads that they must never, ever co-sign for anybody's loan, especially a boyfriend's. And if you have sons, teach them not to be a worthless piece of chit that has to sponge off their girlfriend.

Agreed on the note to parents but one should also add another note to sons out there, always wear a condom and make sure its one of yours.

Adding.....Make sure you bring your own condom, you never know how crazy she is as she could have already poked a hole in it.

And dispose of it. Ensure no viable genetic material can be recovered from it.

No one has ever got pregnant with oral or PIITB.   

No, but is a collection method.

What a horrific visual!   

I know a guy who swears a chick that gave him a BJ then got pregnant. He even had a paternity test done before he committed to financial support and eventually marriage. I would rather make monthly payments than live with that.

Yea, no kidding.  Why would you marry someone you aren't in love with?  Sheesh.  Doesn't sound like a recipe for a long, meaningful relationship.

[johngenx]

Whoa!  And thanks for bring the THREAD BACK ON TOPIC.

 

[Snowman]

  Its about getting facked

[Northernridge]

Exactly. I thought Upside down major was about sex and that Cord took it off topic with stories about auto financing fiascos.

[OliverD]

I know a realtor who, years ago, had an Intrepid. I think what happened was that the dealership sold him on the "balloon payment" thing and likely told him it was roughly equivalent to a lease and he'd be able to trade the car in after 2-3 years. Might work out fine if you don't drive a ton (or buy an Intrepid) but of course, as a realtor, he put a ton of KMs on that car and when he brought it back he was upside down major.

I don't feel too bad for him though, he was well on his way to becoming very successful and now has an LR4.

[whaddaiknow]

What a horrific visual!   

Not unless you are on the receiving end.

[Cord]

My God, it's become a regular Sodom and Gomorrah in here! Carry on. 

Today's installment:

Another Super Duty owner hoping to lower his payments from $1250 to $600. Trouble is he owes $73000 on a truck worth $48000 to us. Only $25000 upside down. 

[TheFordGuy]

At the first dealership I ever worked at there was a logbook at the Sales Manager's podium where the salespeople were supposed to record the customers they talked to along with some brief notes. On my very first day I was looking at the logbook and noticed that for one customer the salesman had wriiten "Upside Down Major." I couldn't figure out what it meant. Was the guy in the military? Had he rolled his car? I was finally told that it meant the the customer owed way more than his trade was worth.

So in honor of that bit of car biz jargon here is a thread about some of the more spectacular cases of people being Upside Down Major.

Upside down dude 'o the day:

Guy owns a 2011 Fusion, trying to trade it on a used Mustang. The Fusion has 180,000 km, is a 4 cyl/Auto, has been lowered, has ugly aftermarket rims, needs tires, driver's door handle doesn't work, has an $8000 accident history.

The car is worth $1500 wholesale. He owes $16,000.

He was approved up to $700/mo max at 13.99% (a reduction of 10% from his current loan). Still couldn't come within $250 of that payment over 84 mos. BTW, he was totally on board with a $700 payment but he thought $950 might be a bit too much. 

LOL Dear Lord, how a customer can sincerely expect value for something like that is beyond me!

[Fobroader]

My God, it's become a regular Sodom and Gomorrah in here! Carry on. 

Today's installment:

Another Super Duty owner hoping to lower his payments from $1250 to $600. Trouble is he owes $73000 on a truck worth $48000 to us. Only $25000 upside down. 

 

[Cord]

Cord, as a sales rep becomes aware of these kinds of circumstances, is there every any discussion as to how the would-be client managed to achieve being so majorly upside down?  What explanations, if any, do they offer?

Generally we avoid too much talk about why it happened as it is really irrelevant to the task at hand. However, the most common explanation is that they were "screwed" by the dealer they bought from. Of course, the truth is closer to "the dealer did what I asked them to." I have never heard anyone take personal responsibility for their situation. That's just human nature.

When faced with the bad news, many people will claim that we are screwing them by not giving them enough for their trade. At that point we make it very clear that it is the amount they owe that is causing the problem, not the trade value. These are usually the extreme cases and it is diffused pretty quickly when we explain that we could give them $20000 (or wheatever) more for the trade and it still wouldn't get them to where they want to be.

Sometimes the circumstance is merely that they haven't had the car long enough. Buying a new car and then trying to get out of it two months later will never work.

[mrthompson]

[tooscoops]

it is always the previous dealer... and their credit woes is because of their ex... and the damage to the car is their kids.... and they were late for the appointment because of the dog and traffic....

nothing is anyone's fault... there is always someone else to blame.

lately, i've even been pushing a few things in the business office... most notably gap protection. at least then there is one way out that doesn't leave them bankrupt!

[rrocket]

lately, i've even been pushing a few things in the business office... most notably nitrogen for tires

Fixed.   

[dkaz]

Assuming that these people have a line of credit available and didn't use it all up buying boats, RVs, and doing a fancy kitchen renovation, they could use that to pay off their balance and sell their vehicle privately, then put all that money on their line of credit. But five digit private sales scare me. My CBR125R is the most expensive thing I've sold privately and was nowhere near five digits.

Another option is home equity loan, assuming they have more than 20% + what they need to borrow equity on their home.

People do put themselves in a pickle doing zero money down this, 5% downpayment that, max out all their credit, etc.