Author Topic: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss  (Read 12951 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« on: June 20, 2013, 06:27:38 am »


Whether it's an obscure, run down hero car from your youth, or a cheap, reliable runabout, these important checks will add confidence to your used car purchase.

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Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 09:23:05 am »
Quote
To be sure the model you’re considering wasn’t owned by an aspiring parking-lot drift champion or burnout aficionado
  In other words, never by a car from anybody on this forum!  :rofl2:

Very useful article for those who don't know what to look for.  This may not be totally applicable, but I can't stand when you have an issue that only happens in certain circumstances, and trying to have the dealer or another mechanic find the problem, only to say we can't find anything wrong.  Even driving with them, it doesn't happen, it's Murphy's Law...

Offline canuckystan

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 10:46:36 am »
Avoid dealers at all cost - you'll pay thousands more for precious little.  Private sellers aren't typically looking for a profit, they just want it gone.  Dealers count on the fact that you're not patient enough to buy privately.  99% of the time, there will be no maintenance history whatsoever on the car from the dealer - you'll have no idea what's been done to it.  Even with used cars maintained at that dealer, they will pull the "privacy act" BS and say that can't show you the records.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 10:48:12 am by canuckystan »

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 11:23:52 am »
Avoid dealers at all cost - you'll pay thousands more for precious little.  Private sellers aren't typically looking for a profit, they just want it gone.  Dealers count on the fact that you're not patient enough to buy privately.  99% of the time, there will be no maintenance history whatsoever on the car from the dealer - you'll have no idea what's been done to it.  Even with used cars maintained at that dealer, they will pull the "privacy act" BS and say that can't show you the records.

Dealers are good for somebody who needs a little extra insurance, as a warranty can be added.  Or certain certified pre-owned programs are quite good as well.  I prefer private as well, but at times its difficult to find exactly what your looking for.  Dealers have more selection than private sellers. 


Offline PJ

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 11:55:55 am »
Avoid dealers at all cost - you'll pay thousands more for precious little.  Private sellers aren't typically looking for a profit, they just want it gone.  Dealers count on the fact that you're not patient enough to buy privately.  99% of the time, there will be no maintenance history whatsoever on the car from the dealer - you'll have no idea what's been done to it.  Even with used cars maintained at that dealer, they will pull the "privacy act" BS and say that can't show you the records.

All true but you left out the reasons not to buy from private sellers. 

First of all you need to be sure they are a private seller and not someone who flips cars for a living.

Second... as you say "they just want it gone".  Why?  I've heard lots of reasons...leaving the country, lost my job, buying something new.. all might be true but the number one reason is they discovered something is wrong with the car that is too expensive and they just want to get rid of it.

Finally private sellers rarely have lien checks or insurance records on hand when you are looking at a car.  You can do it yourself but any good dealer will already have them which saves you from wasting time on cars that are rebuilds.

BTW as for price, no reason to pay more at a dealer.  They will ask more but will always come down.  They make their profit because they are good at getting deals on buying cars.


The way I look at it, it doesn't matter where you buy the car.  The car is all that matters and it's up to you do research everything and give the car a proper look over.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 12:02:49 pm »

 it doesn't matter where you buy the car.  The car is all that matters and it's up to you do research everything and give the car a proper look over.

This.

I've bought from dealers and individuals, and had positive experiences both ways.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 12:42:56 pm »
Two words .....  Service Records

Offline johngenx

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 12:45:38 pm »
Two words .....  Service Records

Used to be that you'd only get service records if you bought privately.  I've noticed lately more dealers accessing/retaining service records.  The Toyota dealer I bought the Highlander from had very complete and detailed records.

Offline Dante

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 01:28:01 pm »
"Secondly, a safety, certification, or whatever, is largely a joke. In most provinces ‘certified’ means the horn works, and that the vehicle has four tires and four brakes and a windshield. You can even safety a car without an engine, if you like. A safety is in no way a guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down. It simply means the vehicle has met some very minimal standard that it’ll go down the road without falling apart like Chinese patio furniture."

As I'm in the process of selling my car, I did the safety last weekend. The certification, if done at a reputable shop by a responsible mechanic , it's a little more than what the above paragraph tries to convey.

First, suspension and steering are in fact checked as part of the safety, plus many other parts like brake lines, fuel lines, fuel tank, body integrity, not to mention the brakes. While not all-inclusive, a properly done safety certification should still mean something.

I think the fine line comes to differentiate between worn but still safe versus not safe at all and this is why an independent inspection is in order. As a buyer, since you probably don't know the shop/mechanic who signed the safety certificate, you should do your own inspection at a trusted entity (a potential buyer asked me to do that and I had nothing against it).
 
However, no inspection is a "guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down". The most you can reasonably expect from having a trusted third-party inspection is that the things are not already broken or about to break.


BTW: I had to replace a torn bushing on the trailing arm to pass inspection. The inspection was done at my servicing dealership by the same mechanic that mostlly serviced my car over the years and I reasonably trust. I asked him to give me a honest report, beyond safety, so I know if there are other issues that require immediate attention. Fortunatelly, there were none so I feel comfortable taking the car to the buyer's mechanic.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 01:35:54 pm by carcrazy »

Offline paul246

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2013, 01:42:55 pm »
Just for info, not all engines equipped with a timing belt are "interference" designs, so engine damage will not necessarily occur. However, you had best know what engine design your are considering... is it interference or non-interference?

Offline Snowman

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 02:47:11 pm »
Two words .....  Service Records

 :iagree: 100% won't even consider a used vehicle without one regardless of condition.

Offline Dante

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 02:58:37 pm »
Two words .....  Service Records

 :iagree: 100% won't even consider a used vehicle without one regardless of condition.


I agree this is paramount and I'm curious how many potential buyers will have the patience to study the thik folder I put together with all service invoices for my car.... So far one guy quickly and randomly flipped through it and nodded his head.

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 02:59:05 pm »
"Secondly, a safety, certification, or whatever, is largely a joke. In most provinces ‘certified’ means the horn works, and that the vehicle has four tires and four brakes and a windshield. You can even safety a car without an engine, if you like. A safety is in no way a guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down. It simply means the vehicle has met some very minimal standard that it’ll go down the road without falling apart like Chinese patio furniture."

As I'm in the process of selling my car, I did the safety last weekend. The certification, if done at a reputable shop by a responsible mechanic , it's a little more than what the above paragraph tries to convey.

First, suspension and steering are in fact checked as part of the safety, plus many other parts like brake lines, fuel lines, fuel tank, body integrity, not to mention the brakes. While not all-inclusive, a properly done safety certification should still mean something.

I think the fine line comes to differentiate between worn but still safe versus not safe at all and this is why an independent inspection is in order. As a buyer, since you probably don't know the shop/mechanic who signed the safety certificate, you should do your own inspection at a trusted entity (a potential buyer asked me to do that and I had nothing against it).
 
However, no inspection is a "guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down". The most you can reasonably expect from having a trusted third-party inspection is that the things are not already broken or about to break.


BTW: I had to replace a torn bushing on the trailing arm to pass inspection. The inspection was done at my servicing dealership by the same mechanic that mostlly serviced my car over the years and I reasonably trust. I asked him to give me a honest report, beyond safety, so I know if there are other issues that require immediate attention. Fortunatelly, there were none so I feel comfortable taking the car to the buyer's mechanic.

What car are you selling?

Offline Dante

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2013, 03:06:54 pm »
"Secondly, a safety, certification, or whatever, is largely a joke. In most provinces ‘certified’ means the horn works, and that the vehicle has four tires and four brakes and a windshield. You can even safety a car without an engine, if you like. A safety is in no way a guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down. It simply means the vehicle has met some very minimal standard that it’ll go down the road without falling apart like Chinese patio furniture."

As I'm in the process of selling my car, I did the safety last weekend. The certification, if done at a reputable shop by a responsible mechanic , it's a little more than what the above paragraph tries to convey.

First, suspension and steering are in fact checked as part of the safety, plus many other parts like brake lines, fuel lines, fuel tank, body integrity, not to mention the brakes. While not all-inclusive, a properly done safety certification should still mean something.

I think the fine line comes to differentiate between worn but still safe versus not safe at all and this is why an independent inspection is in order. As a buyer, since you probably don't know the shop/mechanic who signed the safety certificate, you should do your own inspection at a trusted entity (a potential buyer asked me to do that and I had nothing against it).
 
However, no inspection is a "guarantee that the vehicle is reliable, or won’t break down". The most you can reasonably expect from having a trusted third-party inspection is that the things are not already broken or about to break.


BTW: I had to replace a torn bushing on the trailing arm to pass inspection. The inspection was done at my servicing dealership by the same mechanic that mostlly serviced my car over the years and I reasonably trust. I asked him to give me a honest report, beyond safety, so I know if there are other issues that require immediate attention. Fortunatelly, there were none so I feel comfortable taking the car to the buyer's mechanic.

What car are you selling?

This one: http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php/topic,83799.msg890183.html#msg890183

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 04:27:24 pm »
to dismiss dealer lots as canuckystan says is just fear that you aren't any good at buying a car!

if you find the right car, buy it from whomever.

one thing similar between private/dealer sales is that we both are trying to get at least what we paid or owe on the car... big difference is that dealers paid usually wholesale if not lower... private sellers owe retail, plus taxes, add-ons and interest.

to just assume you'll get a better deal privately is totally wrong.

also, the privacy act BS... well, we can get a huge fine and even jail time if we give out prior owners info or anything that might lead someone to that info... so in almost every case, even if we have great records, we have to file them into the waste... i hate it, but as you all know, the government and google can know everything about you, but god forbid we are able to pass on pertinent information! major repairs are noted on the car via decals (a/c repair, belts, head gaskets...) and the other stuff, sometimes you have to just trust your/the salesmans/your mechanics eyes.

good info though in the article... only thing i'll add is that you don't need to do this to every car you look at! just the one you are planning on buying. also, don't expect a mechanic to check everything out for free or for the seller to pay. the checks are your choice, so your cash.
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Offline safristi

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2013, 04:29:02 pm »
What do "Service records " prove...the owner took it in twice a year for oil changes and a wallet "massage".................nothing more.........................and as for taking every 2nd hand car you may be interested in buying for a full day Spa day at a CAA or otherwise auto shop to find out "stuff'....well it ain't gonna happen...the cherry will be gone...and the Crapollas will be sold anyways.....to a AVERAGE buyer........ :-\
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Offline X-Traction

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2013, 05:15:34 pm »
Avoid dealers at all cost - you'll pay thousands more for precious little.  Private sellers aren't typically looking for a profit, they just want it gone.  Dealers count on the fact that you're not patient enough to buy privately.  99% of the time, there will be no maintenance history whatsoever on the car from the dealer - you'll have no idea what's been done to it.  Even with used cars maintained at that dealer, they will pull the "privacy act" BS and say that can't show you the records.

Why would, say, a new car dealer, want to rip off a bunch of customers by selling junk?  My impression is that new car dealers sell some of the best used cars, and surely they know what to look for.

As for records, during my recent used car shopping most dealerships were happy to provide CarProof and even the inspection records from their service departments when the cars were received.  Some also offered service records.  Armed with these, you have recourse, legal if necessary, if something undisclosed and expensive goes wrong after the sale.  Having these documents can even supplant service records and an independent mechanical inspection.

As for patience, I found no difference in the time needed to negotiate with private sellers or dealerships to arrive at mutually satisfactory price.  For both the private sellers and dealers, they have to be stuck with their used car long enough to realize what the market will bear.  But you risk not getting your chosen used car if you wait too long or try to force the price too low.

I got the impression dealers tend to set the asking price at twice the wholesale price.  And they're willing to sell around halfway between the two.  Private sellers look at the dealers' asking prices, and have no idea they can't get anywhere near those prices.  Of course, some numbskulls just pay the asking price.  So it takes a long time for the private sellers to realize what they really can get for their cars.  Until they reach that point, prospective buyers just get their cars from dealers.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 05:22:43 pm by X-Traction »
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2013, 06:19:10 pm »
Car dealers will have the best quality vehicles....saying that, youre gonna pay through the nose. They will not sell you an unsafe or clapped out car, not worth the headaches, thats what wholesalers are for. You can save a few bucks going private, but you gotta do your homework. Certified pre owned is nice too....kinda like buying new.
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Offline X-Traction

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2013, 07:23:46 pm »
Car dealers will have the best quality vehicles....saying that, youre gonna pay through the nose. They will not sell you an unsafe or clapped out car, not worth the headaches, thats what wholesalers are for. You can save a few bucks going private, but you gotta do your homework. Certified pre owned is nice too....kinda like buying new.

That wasn't my experience.  Yes, their advertised starting prices were high, but they can always hope, right?  As long as they can make a couple or a few thousand on a car, they're not going to dump it back to auction.  Supply and demand.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Consumer Advice: Used Car Checks You Shouldn't Miss
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2013, 08:22:44 pm »
Two words .....  Service Records

 :iagree: 100% won't even consider a used vehicle without one regardless of condition.


I agree this is paramount and I'm curious how many potential buyers will have the patience to study the thik folder I put together with all service invoices for my car.... So far one guy quickly and randomly flipped through it and nodded his head.

Just the smart ones  ;) I probably put in 2-3 hours/day for 3 weeks running around the west GTA to find a quality unit for my mother. Effort = reward. The S2000 took a year off my life  :rofl2: