Topic: Test Drive: 2016 Cadillac ATS Coupe

[Serniter]

The ATS starts at $36k, the CLA  at $35k, the C-class at $43k, the 2 at $36, the 3 at $40k.

GM's website lists the 3-series and C-class as competitors. GM seems to be suggesting that you're getting a good deal with the ATS (i.e., similar/better performance for a lower price).

[rrocket]

The ATS starts at $36k, the CLA  at $35k, the C-class at $43k, the 2 at $36, the 3 at $40k.

GM's website lists the 3-series and C-class as competitors. GM seems to be suggesting that you're getting a good deal with the ATS (i.e., similar/better performance for a lower price).

Yea...that's probably not a bad way to advertise a car either.  ie "Bang for the Buck"

[Jaeger]

The ATS starts at $36k, the CLA  at $35k, the C-class at $43k, the 2 at $36, the 3 at $40k.

GM's website lists the 3-series and C-class as competitors. GM seems to be suggesting that you're getting a good deal with the ATS (i.e., similar/better performance for a lower price).

Which is why stating that it is selling well as compared with the CLA and 2 series is kind of a pointless observation

[rrocket]

The ATS starts at $36k, the CLA  at $35k, the C-class at $43k, the 2 at $36, the 3 at $40k.

GM's website lists the 3-series and C-class as competitors. GM seems to be suggesting that you're getting a good deal with the ATS (i.e., similar/better performance for a lower price).

Which is why stating that it is selling well as compared with the CLA and 2 series is kind of a pointless observation

Exactly!

[aquadorhj]

Re: rear seats, its funny that last gen c class felt good in the back seat. Snug, sure but still felt roomy to me.  Lrxus is, i have no complaints either in the back seat.

But caddy somehow feels tighter, contrary to the numbers.

[fixer]

Love these GM threads. 

Toyota threads have fixer shitting in them. GM threads have rrocket and ArticSteve doing exactly the same.

Yeah but I`m smarter than those 2 clowns.

[dirtyjeffer]

i looked it up and saw it...it's under the "competitive comparison" tab...to be fair, you can select the column and choose any car you want, but the 4 series and C C250 and two of the "key competitors"...the third one is the A5.

having never driven any of those vehicles, i can't comment on how the ATS would do against them.

[Jaeger]

Love these GM threads. 

Toyota threads have fixer shitting in them. GM threads have rrocket and ArticSteve doing exactly the same.

GM threads have you in overdrive spin mode, casting every potential negative as a positive and presenting reems of statistical bafflegab that sometimes, as here, really are nothing more than a red herring diversion.  Stating that sales are 'right where they should be' as measured against vehicles with which - though priced similarly - the ATS simply does not compete is as red as herrings get.

Oh, and since ALL fixer does is take a crap in Honda and Toyota threads (absent a life, he has this), I'm not seeing the equivalence there, either.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So no link stating that the ATS is to be compared only to the significantly more expensive 3 series and C-class. Just as I thought.

Cadillac saying that the 3 and C-class are among the competitors does not mean that it's to the exclusion of all others. The 3 and C-class have bloated in size with the latest generations. BMW and Mercedes added smaller/cheaper models to compensate. The ATS ends up straddling the 2/3 and CLA/C-class.

The ATS is the cheapest Cadillac available. The 2 and CLA are the cheapest BMW and Benz sedan/coupes available, yet the contention here is that they aren't competitors? A base ATS rwd is definitely going to be cross-shopped with the 2 and with the CLA as well as the 320 and C300. Being smaller, especially for fat Americans, is going to put it at a disadvantage to the larger cars, but ahead of the smaller ones.

[OliverD]

I think that's part of Cadillac's problem. They want to take on the European brands but their cars end up being 'tweeners and the waters are muddied in terms of who exactly they're competing with.

I appreciate that Cadillac has basically tried to recreate the contemporary E46 of compact sport sedans. On paper that is the panacea for car enthusiasts but it just isn't translating into the respect that Cadillac probably deserves, much less the sales volume.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think that's part of Cadillac's problem. They want to take on the European brands but their cars end up being 'tweeners and the waters are muddied in terms of who exactly they're competing with.

I appreciate that Cadillac has basically tried to recreate the contemporary E46 of compact sport sedans. On paper that is the panacea for car enthusiasts but it just isn't translating into the respect that Cadillac probably deserves, much less the sales volume.

I think that's right. The ATS, CTS and CT6 aren't really aligned size-wise with the Germans. It has been a bit of a moving target too as the Germans have been adding interior volume in the face of market demand.

BMW softening their products and piling on creature comforts are also market driven. For Cadillac to go on the sporty size relative to BMW, while appealing to enthusiasts, narrows the size of the group they end up appealing to.

But a lot of this is fashion too. The Germans have been the "in" thing for a long while. It's going to take a long term concerted effort to change that. Lexus and Infiniti have put forward much more serious efforts for much longer, but have had only limited success.

BMW isn't above playing fast and loose with sales numbers either:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160218/RETAIL01/160219869/bmw-buoyed-u-s-sales-numbers-by-paying-dealers-to-buy-loaners-report

[OliverD]

I think that Infiniti and Lexus at least have actual fans (read: repeat buyers) of the brand that aren't geriatrics though. It's very tough for brands to shake the "old man" image. The other brands may have that image for specific models but Cadillac (and Lincoln for that matter) has it for their entire lineup.

And yeah, I don't think we can pretend that BMW is going soft because they've "lost their way"; they're doing it because that's what the market demands, unfortunately. I feel like we're past the peak of the right balance between comfort/luxury and sport/performance. It's almost as if that balanced approach has trickled down to cars like the GTI.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think that Infiniti and Lexus at least have actual fans (read: repeat buyers) of the brand that aren't geriatrics though. It's very tough for brands to shake the "old man" image. The other brands may have that image for specific models but Cadillac (and Lincoln for that matter) has it for their entire lineup.

And yeah, I don't think we can pretend that BMW is going soft because they've "lost their way"; they're doing it because that's what the market demands, unfortunately. I feel like we're past the peak of the right balance between comfort/luxury and sport/performance. It's almost as if that balanced approach has trickled down to cars like the GTI.

That's the cliche, but the average age of Cadillac buyers is way down from what it had been. To really get the average age down, they desperately need a Q3/GLA/X1/X3 competitor, which is what the kids want these days.

But you're right. Lexus and Infiniti had the advantage of having no history. Cadillac is still under the cloud of some really bad badge engineering in the 1970-1980s, less so in the 1990s, but they didn't exactly have standout products then either.

 

[Fobroader]

I think that Infiniti and Lexus at least have actual fans (read: repeat buyers) of the brand that aren't geriatrics though. It's very tough for brands to shake the "old man" image. The other brands may have that image for specific models but Cadillac (and Lincoln for that matter) has it for their entire lineup.

And yeah, I don't think we can pretend that BMW is going soft because they've "lost their way"; they're doing it because that's what the market demands, unfortunately. I feel like we're past the peak of the right balance between comfort/luxury and sport/performance. It's almost as if that balanced approach has trickled down to cars like the GTI.

That's the cliche, but the average age of Cadillac buyers is way down from what it had been. To really get the average age down, they desperately need a Q3/GLA/X1/X3 competitor, which is what the kids want these days.

But you're right. Lexus and Infiniti had the advantage of having no history. Cadillac is still under the cloud of some really bad badge engineering in the 1970-1980s, less so in the 1990s, but they didn't exactly have standout products then either.

Oh come on, the 90s had some great Caddys:

Allante



STS



Deville



and I'm not even kidding......

[OliverD]

Buddy of mine's father is an STS enthusiast. He bought a super low mile STS from Iowa a couple years ago. Owner had bought two brand, one for him and one for his wife, and she didn't like it so she got a Grand Cherokee and the STS was parked. Last I saw it, it was in impeccable shape, just needed a good detail.

The '92 Seville was a pretty big deal actually. And I have a soft spot for the Eldorado for some inexplicable reason.

[Gurgie]

less so in the 1990s, but they didn't exactly have standout products then either.

The 92 - 97 STS was a decent car, it may have even won some awards when it came out if I remember correctly?  Maybe a Motor Trend car of the year?  Or Car & Driver top 10?

Just checked Wikipedia  -  For 1992, Cadillac delivered a new, European-flavored Seville with positive reviews as well as customers. The Seville Touring Sedan was Motor Trend magazine's Car of the Year for 1992. It also made Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list that year.

Damn I have a good memory!!

[Fobroader]

I hate this site....now I'm looking at Caddys on Kijiji.....

[dirtyjeffer]

here's a '93 for $10,500:

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/STS/SARNIA/Ontario/19_8930299_/?showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=16_100_49

[OliverD]

I much prefer the styling of the '98.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

 

The STS and Eldo were interesting cars, but for their intended purpose, they weren't ever going to ruffle the feathers in Munich or Stuttgart. They would have been a good competitor for Citroen though.

Lincoln hit it out of the park with this ad from 1986

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZqQLpbjFU