Topic: Upside Down Major

[neil]

I've probably put on less than 500km total in the past three years, just don't have the time.  My bike is Vintage though so it costs me next to nothing for insurance to keep the plates on.

I'm in the same boat with my '85 GPZ900R, except that my previous insurers priced themselves out of range or just wouldn't insure a bike that old.  So, if you're in Ontario, who is your insurer that has cheap vintage bike rates?

I am in SK.    6 months coverage for $71.00 

[neil]

I really love seeing people put use to either expensive or cool old cars, especially the old stuff - a car that's 30+ years old and still serving a practical purpose is pretty damn cool in my eyes.

[safristi]

a 1987 Transalp bike..

That's a cool bike.  Is it in good shape?  You have pics??

  sadly it has been wrapped in a tarp the past 18 months so will need some TLC..several local guys keep offering to take it off my hands but I keep `thinking`yeah forgoing a few hundred bucks may as well keep it and get back in the saddle.....

[blur911]

I've probably put on less than 500km total in the past three years, just don't have the time.  My bike is Vintage though so it costs me next to nothing for insurance to keep the plates on.

I'm in the same boat with my '85 GPZ900R, except that my previous insurers priced themselves out of range or just wouldn't insure a bike that old.  So, if you're in Ontario, who is your insurer that has cheap vintage bike rates?

I am in SK.    6 months coverage for $71.00

That's about 10 times cheaper than here.  So it sits in my garage 

[tooscoops]

my morgan is at 21000kms... it's a 1970. so under 500km per year! crazy...

[dkaz]

Just filler material until the next upside down major story comes up.

I have this one, someone trying to sell his used 2015 KTM 390 Duke for $6500 firm. FYI, any remaining brand new stock of 2015s are $6,000 with every single additional fee added at the dealer, and 2016s are $6500. His angle is save the tax. The 12% sales tax applies on all brand new, used, and used private sales.

[tooscoops]

people do that all the time... they just don't get it... they think they are the best shoppers, so they got some amazing deal and that the next person should feel privileged to get to take over what they currently owe.

yesterday i had two 2014 cherokees... a loaded up one, but with 112000km that he was 18k upsidedown on... he has the money to do what he needs to to get out, but i just get queasy seeing the numbers. the other was worse... only 52km on a more basic one, that they were about 22k in the ditch on. that one isn't really driving much anymore, so the customer wants to see about cutting their losses and selling it back to us. not a chance.

in amazing news though.... a previous one i commented on in here a page or two ago, a van that was just crazy... 117km on a 2015 i think, trading in on a '16... we did the deal, the bank approved it, and he drove it away a few weeks back. he came in last night.... the van was stolen. total loan amount was 55k iirc on a van that would wholesale for about 20.

............. he bought gap insurance!!!! fingers crossed it all goes through without a hitch, but if it does, this guy is the luckiest guy i know.

[Gurgie]

people do that all the time... they just don't get it... they think they are the best shoppers, so they got some amazing deal and that the next person should feel privileged to get to take over what they currently owe.

yesterday i had two 2014 cherokees... a loaded up one, but with 112000km that he was 18k upsidedown on... he has the money to do what he needs to to get out, but i just get queasy seeing the numbers. the other was worse... only 52km on a more basic one, that they were about 22k in the ditch on. that one isn't really driving much anymore, so the customer wants to see about cutting their losses and selling it back to us. not a chance.

in amazing news though.... a previous one i commented on in here a page or two ago, a van that was just crazy... 117km on a 2015 i think, trading in on a '16... we did the deal, the bank approved it, and he drove it away a few weeks back. he came in last night.... the van was stolen. total loan amount was 55k iirc on a van that would wholesale for about 20.

............. he bought gap insurance!!!! fingers crossed it all goes through without a hitch, but if it does, this guy is the luckiest guy i know.

WOW, he's lucky if they don't find the van & the insurance pays off the loan for him!!  Gets to start from scratch & if he plays in right can be right-side up on a vehicle in about 3yrs 

[aquadorhj]

people do that all the time... they just don't get it... they think they are the best shoppers, so they got some amazing deal and that the next person should feel privileged to get to take over what they currently owe.

yesterday i had two 2014 cherokees... a loaded up one, but with 112000km that he was 18k upsidedown on... he has the money to do what he needs to to get out, but i just get queasy seeing the numbers. the other was worse... only 52km on a more basic one, that they were about 22k in the ditch on. that one isn't really driving much anymore, so the customer wants to see about cutting their losses and selling it back to us. not a chance.

in amazing news though.... a previous one i commented on in here a page or two ago, a van that was just crazy... 117km on a 2015 i think, trading in on a '16... we did the deal, the bank approved it, and he drove it away a few weeks back. he came in last night.... the van was stolen. total loan amount was 55k iirc on a van that would wholesale for about 20.

............. he bought gap insurance!!!! fingers crossed it all goes through without a hitch, but if it does, this guy is the luckiest guy i know.

Insurance fraud?

[Gurgie]

people do that all the time... they just don't get it... they think they are the best shoppers, so they got some amazing deal and that the next person should feel privileged to get to take over what they currently owe.

yesterday i had two 2014 cherokees... a loaded up one, but with 112000km that he was 18k upsidedown on... he has the money to do what he needs to to get out, but i just get queasy seeing the numbers. the other was worse... only 52km on a more basic one, that they were about 22k in the ditch on. that one isn't really driving much anymore, so the customer wants to see about cutting their losses and selling it back to us. not a chance.

in amazing news though.... a previous one i commented on in here a page or two ago, a van that was just crazy... 117km on a 2015 i think, trading in on a '16... we did the deal, the bank approved it, and he drove it away a few weeks back. he came in last night.... the van was stolen. total loan amount was 55k iirc on a van that would wholesale for about 20.

............. he bought gap insurance!!!! fingers crossed it all goes through without a hitch, but if it does, this guy is the luckiest guy i know.

Insurance fraud?

That crossed my mind too!!   

[Sir Osis of Liver]

people do that all the time... they just don't get it... they think they are the best shoppers, so they got some amazing deal and that the next person should feel privileged to get to take over what they currently owe.

yesterday i had two 2014 cherokees... a loaded up one, but with 112000km that he was 18k upsidedown on... he has the money to do what he needs to to get out, but i just get queasy seeing the numbers. the other was worse... only 52km on a more basic one, that they were about 22k in the ditch on. that one isn't really driving much anymore, so the customer wants to see about cutting their losses and selling it back to us. not a chance.

in amazing news though.... a previous one i commented on in here a page or two ago, a van that was just crazy... 117km on a 2015 i think, trading in on a '16... we did the deal, the bank approved it, and he drove it away a few weeks back. he came in last night.... the van was stolen. total loan amount was 55k iirc on a van that would wholesale for about 20.

............. he bought gap insurance!!!! fingers crossed it all goes through without a hitch, but if it does, this guy is the luckiest guy i know.

Insurance fraud?

"STOLEN"

That's what I'm guessing.

[tooscoops]

he didn't want the insurance actually... one of those tough ones... while we hate to increase the amount of an already upside-down loan, we would really hate to see them in an accident in a year and be bankrupted by how much they would have to pay out of pocket.

from what i know about the guy, i think it's 100% legit... just lucky. as long as it doesn't show up that is... even worse if it shows up and is damaged... insurance will fix it, then his value will be even lower due to damage claims!!

[tortoise]

WOW, he's lucky if they don't find the van & the insurance pays off the loan for him!!  Gets to start from scratch & if he plays in right can be right-side up on a vehicle in about 3yrs 

I assume they won't cover the entire loan, just the portion covered by the vehicles value.

Still, time to get into a beater and get rid of that loan.

[tooscoops]

that's what gap insurance covers... the "gap" between the value and the loan amount. so as long as it all goes through, he is now starting fresh (though i think gap has a 500 deductible or something)

[Prail]

that's what gap insurance covers... the "gap" between the value and the loan amount. so as long as it all goes through, he is now starting fresh (though i think gap has a 500 deductible or something)

I could probably chime in here. (Long time lurker)...

I used to work in insurance for this sort of stuff, and pretty sure they will still be on the hook for the 'upside down portion.'

The spirit and intent of insurance is to indemnify the insured party. IE put them back in the same position they were before the loss occurred.

GAP insurance is intended to cover the replacement cost of the vehicle within that 1-2 year period where the depreciation is very steep. So I could well see the policy covering the full new replacement cost of the van - but they certainly won't pay for the other $30k as the insured would profit from the loss.

It would really depend on the policy wording, but pretty sure all they will get paid for is the the cost of a brand new van like the one they had before.

That would in effect put them in the same place they were before the loss happened.

[84im]

As Prail mentioned, the gap insurance will pay him what he paid for the van-nothing more.

[tooscoops]

that's what gap insurance covers... the "gap" between the value and the loan amount. so as long as it all goes through, he is now starting fresh (though i think gap has a 500 deductible or something)

I could probably chime in here. (Long time lurker)...

I used to work in insurance for this sort of stuff, and pretty sure they will still be on the hook for the 'upside down portion.'

The spirit and intent of insurance is to indemnify the insured party. IE put them back in the same position they were before the loss occurred.

GAP insurance is intended to cover the replacement cost of the vehicle within that 1-2 year period where the depreciation is very steep. So I could well see the policy covering the full new replacement cost of the van - but they certainly won't pay for the other $30k as the insured would profit from the loss.

It would really depend on the policy wording, but pretty sure all they will get paid for is the the cost of a brand new van like the one they had before.

That would in effect put them in the same place they were before the loss happened.

appreciate the input, but pretty sure the neg. is covered. all that is you are talking about is automobile insurance. in the case of any auto loss (theft, accident, etc.) the insurance company is to put the customer in the place they were prior to the loss.

DEFINITION of 'Gap Insurance'

A type of auto insurance that car owners can buy to protect themselves against losses that can arise when the amount of compensation received from a total loss does not fully cover the amount the insured owes on the vehicle's financing or lease agreement. This situation arises when the balance owed on a car loan is greater than the book value of the vehicle.
BREAKING DOWN 'Gap Insurance'

For example, according to the blue book, John's car is worth $15,000. However, he still owes a total of $20,000 worth of car payments. In the event that John's car is completely written off as a result of an accident or theft, John's car insurance policy will reimburse him with $15,000. Because John owes the car financing company $20,000, however, he will still be $5,000 short, even though he no longer has a car.

If John had purchased gap insurance, the gap insurance policy would cover the $5,000 "gap", or the difference between the money received from reimbursement and the amount still owed on the car.

Read more: Gap Insurance Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gapinsurance.asp#ixzz4JsGTVvcg
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[johngenx]

There are two types of gap insurance as scoops noted. If I were financing a large percentage of the price, or over 100% of the price (upside down) for sure I'd look hard at finance gap insurance.


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[neil]

The discrepancy comes between the terms of GAP vs Replacement Cost Coverage. As an interesting aside, GAP is illegal to sell in SK. RCC is only available from insurance brokers. 

RCC won't payout the loan entirely it will pay for an equivalent new vehicle, at cost. In the case of the negative equity, a whole new finance loan would need to be done, as a conditional sales contract is tied to the property, which no longer exists.

[tooscoops]

cool stuff... good to know! Really it's a gamble... so understandable that it isn't something available everywhere. plus, it really gives that customer a bit too much temptation to get the car stolen/in an accident! for some, it's the only way out of the debt, so i can see it being i guess a conflict of interest...