Author Topic: Upside Down Major  (Read 804331 times)

Offline OliverD

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2180 on: December 22, 2017, 03:44:29 pm »
the big issue is that once the customer is "switched" to the longer term (and already put behind the eight ball), they then can be convinced that 5 bucks here and there on the payments is nothing and start adding winter tires to the loan... warranty... rust protection... life insurance, all because that few extra bucks is "affordable".

but their mind is now just looking at payments. they aren't seeing that the 20k car is now 30k financed. if they didn't buy that stuff, the 20k car will be worth say 12k in two years... with those options, it's worth like 12500, but they owe MORE than 10k over what they would have owed on that *same* car, but with the shorter payment.

So how many customers actually make use of all of these add-ons? Seems like a giant profit centre for the dealer and manufacturer than anything else.

Personally, this is why I like leasing. If you do it right, your costs are fixed and predictable, you are always under warranty, and you're never too far away from your next car if your circumstances are to change. Worst case scenario if you have to trade your car in you roll some negative equity over but you may also just be able to get someone to take over your lease for little out of pocket. Plus you don't have to worry about most of the extra fees. I just get the lease-end wear and tear protection so that I don't have to worry about taking the car back with bald tires or brakes that are at the end of their life.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2181 on: December 22, 2017, 07:14:44 pm »
I think right now the only car I'd buy new would be another Corolla, and if I were financing, I'd think about going out as long as five years.  The car's warranty is five years, it depreciates slower than most cars in it's class, and the upside period would be reasonable.  A five year old Corolla retails for $8-$10K or so, I think, so having it paid off in five years seems pretty safe.  As far as compacts go, I think it's also a real value - for about $21K you get a pretty well equipped car with amazing suite of safety features.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2182 on: December 22, 2017, 08:28:25 pm »
^^^^MDX is back in the shop today (don't ask).  Dealership picked it up and left a new Corolla behind.  Honestly, I kinda liked driving it today.  Doesn't handle like a wet noodle.  If anything, it is rather taut.  Interior build quality is very good too.  Visibility is great.  And, man, unlike some cars, the heated seats actually get HOT.
That's how I felt when I had that rental.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2183 on: December 22, 2017, 08:38:10 pm »
^^^^MDX is back in the shop today (don't ask).  Dealership picked it up and left a new Corolla behind.  Honestly, I kinda liked driving it today.  Doesn't handle like a wet noodle.  If anything, it is rather taut.  Interior build quality is very good too.  Visibility is great.  And, man, unlike some cars, the heated seats actually get HOT.

The Gen 11 Corolla is a very well thought out car.  Based on the superior experience we've had with the previous generation, I'd buy one in a second.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2184 on: December 22, 2017, 09:04:15 pm »
^^^^MDX is back in the shop today (don't ask).  Dealership picked it up and left a new Corolla behind.  Honestly, I kinda liked driving it today.  Doesn't handle like a wet noodle.  If anything, it is rather taut.  Interior build quality is very good too.  Visibility is great.  And, man, unlike some cars, the heated seats actually get HOT.
That's how I felt when I had that rental.
yup...while I haven't driven one, it was a top recommendation to my coworker...pretty hard to go wrong with one.
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Offline dkaz

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2185 on: December 22, 2017, 09:08:17 pm »
^^^^MDX is back in the shop today (don't ask).  Dealership picked it up and left a new Corolla behind.  Honestly, I kinda liked driving it today.  Doesn't handle like a wet noodle.  If anything, it is rather taut.  Interior build quality is very good too.  Visibility is great.  And, man, unlike some cars, the heated seats actually get HOT.

The Gen 11 Corolla is a very well thought out car.  Based on the superior experience we've had with the previous generation, I'd buy one in a second.

I'd go for the iM, single trim level with all the features I want and a multi-link suspension for a little better handling. I just wish it had Toyota Safety Sense P like the Corolla.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2186 on: December 28, 2017, 02:55:22 pm »
the "souless" cars of years past are now just a nice place to be... corolla and civic are well put together and i think quite handsome beasts. add that not too many other cars are all that exciting, they are all of a sudden right in mid pack for driving excitement.

anywho, hopefully no one did anything too silly over the break...

to answer oliver's question, meh... never really know. warranty? it's useful, and can be actually "profitable" to the customer (only if the car is a bit of a lemon!)... rust protection? yeah, it offers something good, but the "value" of it is always a question... insurance? well, it can be worth tonnes (hope not though!)... winter tires? yeah, for sure, and price wise might be the same as you would get otherwise...

but doesn't change that it is now all tacked on to the loan on a car... it doesn't change the value of the car itself.
i used to be addicted to soap, but i'm clean now

Offline 2JDM

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2187 on: December 28, 2017, 03:02:42 pm »
Yep. The current generation Corolla is miles better than the previous generation. Overall refinement is improved, but I think the steering is the biggest improvement.

Offline Frontier1

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2188 on: December 29, 2017, 09:42:08 am »
As someone who drives Civic and Corolla on a regular basis, Civic hands down.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2189 on: December 30, 2017, 10:27:12 am »
might have mentioned this guy a few months back, but his name popped up again in our lead system because he has asked for a quote again...

owes 44k on something that if i stretch, *might* be worth 20k (would :censor: off my used manager is i do that)... wants to grab a used durango valued at more than his original purchase price of the current vehicle... but luckily, is "willing" to bump his payment by 30 bucks...

well super, on the term he needs, just the negative equity is over 170 bi-weekly...

people just don't understand. even if when he bought his last car, he chose this one instead, it would have been more than 30/payment more... so now that you are adding more depreciation if will be way worse.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2190 on: December 30, 2017, 02:34:08 pm »
last day of the year gets some interesting ones out.. maybe it's that full moon on it's way...

guy owes 62 grand on a jeep not even a year old... wants to lower his payments. based on what i see, he rolled more than 10k into this previous deal.

after interest, taxes and everything (just adding up all his payments), he would be looking at over 67000 to buy a used cherokee i have listed at 26950.

he's considering it. my lord.

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2191 on: December 30, 2017, 03:04:05 pm »
last day of the year gets some interesting ones out.. maybe it's that full moon on it's way...

guy owes 62 grand on a jeep not even a year old... wants to lower his payments. based on what i see, he rolled more than 10k into this previous deal.

after interest, taxes and everything (just adding up all his payments), he would be looking at over 67000 to buy a used cherokee i have listed at 26950.

he's considering it. my lord.
How much would it lower his payments ?

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2192 on: December 30, 2017, 03:27:40 pm »
I don't get all these people that take on massive car loans and then 6, 12 or 18 months later want to dramatically reduce their payments.  Honestly, if they need to find a few hundred a month, maybe there's some other way without getting screwed so badly?  I was looking at our monthly bills, and some of them are hella expensive and I'm sure we could either trim them, or lose them.

One is the cell bill.  We shell out $200/month for three phones on a family share plan.  If we dropped the smart phones and got cheap pay-as-you-go phones we could save at least $100/month, maybe more.

Cable/internet is $180/month.  I'm sure we could trim $100/month from that too.

Insurance is $556/month - ouch because the kid's insurance is in that bill, but that's for FOUR cars.  We could make the kid pay her own bill, I could sell the Miata, and we'd trim that down to well under $300/month.  There's at least $250/month.

Without much effort, I've found $500/month.

We could trim more if we sold the house and moved into Edmonton, the property tax savings would be $200/month at least.  That's a much more drastic move - costly too - and would make sense only if we wanted to cut a mortgage payment as well through downsizing.  As we have no mortgage, that's not really way for use to trim monthly costs effectively.  But, with some effort on selling the house ourselves and so on, it could be done.

Do people really sit down and try to see where they can save money?  Realistically, do we think someone that would take on $62K on a Jeep that he wants out of in in a year thinks things through?  Guess not.

What amazes me is that you have to have a pretty good job and earn a pretty good living to borrow $62,000 for a car.  Shouldn't someone capable of making that much money be smarter?  I get when really poor people get themselves going down the drain on payday loans and crap like that - but people earning six figures?   ::)

Offline tpl

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2193 on: December 30, 2017, 03:35:32 pm »
I agree with John.      We could lower some of our bills I guess but not the amounts John could with just two of us.   But we don't need to do so and being retired our other expenses are pretty low.

The big difference between us and your underwater car buyers Tooscoops is that we just don't feel we have to buy anything unless we can just pay cash for it...put another way, we don't feel we HAVE TO HAVE something new and shiny... no FOMO here.

I bet John is the same way. 
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2194 on: December 30, 2017, 03:41:50 pm »
I bet John is the same way.

I'm driving a 14 year old Highlander, and don't see the need for anything newer or "nicer" as it meets all my needs and costs me little.  So, yeah.

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2195 on: December 30, 2017, 04:15:23 pm »
I bet John is the same way.

I'm driving a 14 year old Highlander, and don't see the need for anything newer or "nicer" as it meets all my needs and costs me little.  So, yeah.
I bet at one time you wanted to have the newest and the best

Some people just need to get it out of their system , some never do

Offline ktm525

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2196 on: December 30, 2017, 04:34:44 pm »
cash on the barrel head is really the only way to go. The number of university students or baristas driving new (cheap econo boxes but new)is amazing to me. I drove beaters, fixed them cheap and paid cash. Don't have cash? Walk or take the bus.

Instant gratification is out of control. And:

Get off my lawn!


Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2197 on: December 30, 2017, 04:59:40 pm »
It’s all about the Happiness

Offline EV-Light

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2198 on: December 30, 2017, 05:04:12 pm »
I bet John is the same way.

I'm driving a 14 year old Highlander, and don't see the need for anything newer or "nicer" as it meets all my needs and costs me little.  So, yeah.
I bet at one time you wanted to have the newest and the best

Some people just need to get it out of their system , some never do

I think it really depends on how old ur and where ur in life...if ur in your 60s and retired, should you really be buying that fancy car? How about 70s?

If you have the money to enjoy life now, do so...don’t regret...you will not last forever.


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Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2199 on: December 30, 2017, 05:19:58 pm »
I used to make a lot more money, and I had more expensive cars, yes, but I never felt burdened by them.