Author Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1  (Read 33176 times)

Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2012, 01:42:49 pm »


James,

 The fuel consumption for my new 2012 CRV is as bad as your numbers for the Santa Fe, around 11 L/100 km in the city and about the same on the highway!  And this while always using the ECON mode! Not very impressive.

Offline wing

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2012, 01:47:30 pm »
The real problem here is the size of the tank!  It's so small, range is around 400km :(

Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2012, 01:58:06 pm »


But official estimates rate the 2012 CRV  to 9.2/6.6 L/100km!  I am very far from those numbers!  And it is not Winter yet.

All those so-called small SUVs should run with diesel engine.  When the government will realise that?

Offline bridgecity

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2012, 01:59:43 pm »

All those so-called small SUVs should run with diesel engine.  When the government will realise that?

What do you want the government to do?  Mandate diesel for CUVs?
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Offline aaronk

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2012, 02:01:30 pm »

All those so-called small SUVs should run with diesel engine.  When the government will realise that?

What do you want the government to do?  Mandate diesel for CUVs?

Exactly...if you wanted a diesel that could carry stuff, you should have bought a TDI Golf Wagon. Our CUV uses more than the EPA numbers, but I figured it would...it's a CUV, it's not an economy car.

Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2012, 02:06:05 pm »
Before the CRV, I had a golf TDI wagon!!!  But I did not like the service from VW in my area....

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2012, 02:56:26 pm »
Horsepower ratings about 10 years ago, fuel economy recently and now curb weight. I wonder what other specs provided by  Hyundai are incorrect due to "a honest mistake"?  Anyone see a pattern here?  ;D :stick: :run:
the horsepower ratings affected numerous brands, mostly Asian ones, as there wasn't a uniform testing standard for that (there is now)...the same thing likely needs to be applied to curb weight, as there isn't a uniform standard for that here...it could be Hyundai is claiming the curb weight for the vehicle itself, whereas Ford may include a full tank of gas...a tank of gas in a Sante Fe is over 150 pounds alone.

Do you realize that every claim you make in that statement is utterly false? Do you work for Hyundai by chance?
Do you realize that what you claim as false, isn't false at all?

Do work for GM by chance?

Here, some reading material to educate yourself on, or at least to wipe the egg off your face:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=20060318&id=4UdSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dTYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1176,3939039

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?2142814-Toyota-Honda-oversell-horsepower

When you've lost the argument, admit defeat and hit the smite button.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2012, 02:57:10 pm »
Good spin!  How long have you been with the Hyundai PR Dept?....or are you a consultant?
not spin at all...just sticking with the facts.

Offline blork

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2012, 10:12:59 pm »
The fuel economy is terrible because small displacement turbo engines on large, heavy vehicles only fare well on the govt test, where it is easy to stay out of boost at much lower speeds. In real world driving, the discrepancy in mileage is huge compared to a larger NA engine, because you're in boost a lot of the time, even at highway cruising.

Ironically, I'll bet the v6 on the 2012 is not that different in economy than the 2.0T, and you don't have to put up with turbo power delivery annoyances.

Honda figured this out with their disaster of a 2.3T engine that was in the RDX. The replacement V6 with cylinder deactivation is far more efficient with a much better powerband.

Offline D70

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2012, 05:39:36 am »
A long way from my daily driver for the next 3 weeks  a Renault Megane station wagon with a 1.5 diesel and 6 spd manual. I'm still on my first tank at over 700 km and 300 km to go according to the digital display on the winding back roads and motorways here in Portugal

Averaging 6.4 L per 100 km

http://flic.kr/p/dx7W3n

Offline nlm

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2012, 09:19:44 am »
James,

 The fuel consumption for my new 2012 CRV is as bad as your numbers for the Santa Fe, around 11 L/100 km in the city and about the same on the highway!  And this while always using the ECON mode! Not very impressive.

Interesting....both above get worse fuel economy than my 2009 Outlander V6 with awd in auto mode at 10.3L/100km. I don't have numbers on hand but I bet the Outlander is heavier and it's V6 isn't/wasn't the most efficient being a 3.0L.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2012, 12:29:58 pm »
on last week's episode of Motoring 2013 (MotoringTV), they were in Slovakia visiting the Kia plant and were driving around in the C'eed and the Sportage, both of which can be had with fuel efficient diesel engines...it was pretty sweet.

Offline Spec5

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2012, 02:06:01 pm »
There's apparently a slew of diesel's coming to NA in the next 3 years. If memory serves me correct Mazda is bringing one in (believe the Mazda6 diesel was just announced at the LA auto show), Jeep is bringing back its diesel in the Cherokee and GM is reportedly looking at a diesel for their new midsize pickup. BMW has already announced a slew of diesel's for NA as well as Audi so there should be plenty of options in the next couple years for Mr.Consumer.
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Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2012, 02:24:01 pm »
Mazda will bring the CX5 diesel in 2014.  This version already runs in Europe and is apparently great to drive.

I can't wait.

Offline Spec5

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2012, 09:38:23 pm »
Hey, someone answer me this. If diesels are so much more efficient - why is it that nobody has done a diesel/hybrid? Wouldn't that be ideal for heavier vehicles such as trucks/SUVs?

Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #95 on: December 04, 2012, 10:06:25 pm »
The first diesel hybride was Peugeot 308!

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2012, 11:41:07 pm »
Hey, someone answer me this. If diesels are so much more efficient - why is it that nobody has done a diesel/hybrid? Wouldn't that be ideal for heavier vehicles such as trucks/SUVs?

Cost. Modern diesels and the emissions controls they need are expensive.
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Offline Patrick_D1

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2012, 08:10:41 am »
Hey, someone answer me this. If diesels are so much more efficient - why is it that nobody has done a diesel/hybrid? Wouldn't that be ideal for heavier vehicles such as trucks/SUVs?

Cost. Modern diesels and the emissions controls they need are expensive.

It's cost mixed with North American diesel take rates. The costs of adapting an engine to meet emissions standards here is very high, and the projected volumes are usually pretty low. Doesn't make a great business case, unfortunately.
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Offline SaskSpecV

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2012, 10:51:14 am »

It's cost mixed with North American diesel take rates. The costs of adapting an engine to meet emissions standards here is very high, and the projected volumes are usually pretty low. Doesn't make a great business case, unfortunately.

Gonna dispute your hypothsis there, Force  - or at least part of it.  North American diesel take rates are indeed low - but not when you consider the limited availability of diesels! 

A better metric would be % of diesel sales for models in which a diesel is available.  If only 2% of models sold in NA are offered with a diesel, how can you be surprised if the diesel take rate is only 1% of all NA vehicles?

And since VW is currently the only mainstream MNFR to offer a diesel, what % of Jetta, Golf, and Passat sales are diesels?  I'd wager close to half (though I don't know if VW would give you a breakdown on that stat).  But the VW diesel take rate is pretty damn good - particularly in Canada, where our diesel taxes aren't punitive like in the US.

Now there may be some bias to this argument because if you really want a (cheaper) diesel, you are forced to buy a VW - thus inflating the VW diesel take rate.  And if they had a more competitive base engine (than the 2.slow or 2.5L) perhaps less VW customers would choose the diesel (IMO their diesel really is vastly superior to those two engines - not so much to the 2.0T...)

You could make another, very valid, argument that the engine R&D resources at your company are better spent focused on developing a few core engines, and that by introducing diesel engines it would ciphen development from other (more broadly applicable) R&D.  But to say that "Hyundai doesn't offer diesels because North Americans don't buy them" is somewhat disingenious - how many can they actually buy when only one company sells a reasonably priced diesel vehicle? 

I guess we'll see how Mazda does with their diesel 6, and potentially Chevy with the Cruze.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:55:02 am by SaskSpecV »

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2012, 11:31:43 am »
Hyunda/Kia make some decent diesel engines...however, like most of them, they don't meet our emission requirements...blame our governments for forcing diesel engines to meet the same requirements as their gasoline counterparts for a lack of them...auto companies are forced to either make a diesel engine specific to our market (not feasible), use that same engine world wide (feasible, but then the costs of that vehicle increase everywhere else where the additional emissions requirements aren't necessary)...things will change in time though, as i believe other countries are in the process of tightening their emissions as well.