Topic: First Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST

[Sir Osis of Liver]

If you look at your bottom line including rebates and financing costs, you'll never go wrong.

This type of pricing goes back pretty much to the beginning of commerce. It doesn't matter if its figs, Persian rugs, home electronics, engineering services or cars. A price is suggested and the negotiations begin.

[Cord]

So how does Ford's current $2648 discount on the 2013 Focus ST illustrate any less integrity than, say, Hyundai's current $2569 discount on the 2013 Sonata?

in that case, the difference is Hyundai gives you sub 3% interest and Ford charges you 6%...Hyundai is not normally "big" on giving discounts, so my guess is customers have become so accustomed to seeing "$3000 off" that perhaps they are now joining the game (which is a shame)...at least they still offer attractive finance rates.

Right. So it is a "difference" and has nothing to do with "integrity." So sub 3% is better than 6%. But then, you said it wasn't about "cheaper being better" either...

... hey, what's for lunch?

[dirtyjeffer]

Right. So it is a "difference" and has nothing to do with "integrity." So sub 3% is better than 6%. But then, you said it wasn't about "cheaper being better" either...

... hey, what's for lunch?

you said "cheaper is better", i didn't...what i said is, in my opinion, offering cash on the hood, then sticking you with a 6% interest rate isn't really a "deal"...sure, $3k off is nice, but you'll hand that right back them when you finance.

as Sir O said, look at the total numbers...cash on the hood is great for people who pay cash, but most don't.

[Cord]

Right. So it is a "difference" and has nothing to do with "integrity." So sub 3% is better than 6%. But then, you said it wasn't about "cheaper being better" either...

... hey, what's for lunch?

you said "cheaper is better", i didn't...what i said is, in my opinion, offering cash on the hood, then sticking you with a 6% interest rate isn't really a "deal"...sure, $3k off is nice, but you'll hand that right back them when you finance.

as Sir O said, look at the total numbers...cash on the hood is great for people who pay cash, but most don't.

So, as usual, you've taken us right back to where we started. 3% is better than 6%. A $10000 price is better than a $15000 price. A $3000 discount is better than a $2000 discount.  Who would've guessed?

And as usual, you are pretty selective as to your concept of "integrity" when it comes to pricing. Obviously, any subvented interest rate has a cash value. How come you have no problem with the "gimmick" of offering an artificially low interest rate rather than just lowering the price of the car in the first place?

sure, $3k off is nice, but you'll hand that right back them when you finance.

And you have already agreed that there is nothing stopping anyone from financing from wherever they want. Manufacturers rate too high? Then get the money from wherever you can get it for less. How is that handing anything back to the manufacturer?

[dirtyjeffer]

no, you're correct...the non-stop "Family & Friends" discounts and 6% interest rates are great...move along.

[Cord]

no, you're correct...

Actually, it's that you are incorrect. But that's close enough.

[nlm]

Oi, I can't belive I am responding to this.

$10,000 is better than $15,000
3% is better than 6%

$10,000 + 6% is better than $15,000 + 3%

$10,000 + 3 % is better than $10,000 + 6%

Ford represents $10,000 + 6%
Hyundai represents $10,000 + 3%

[Northernridge]

If you look at your bottom line including rebates and financing costs, you'll never go wrong.

This type of pricing goes back pretty much to the beginning of commerce. It doesn't matter if its figs, Persian rugs, home electronics, engineering services or cars. A price is suggested and the negotiations begin.

That's beautiful...

Seriously though, your suggestion is the only way to go. There are so many pricing schemes out there that boiling it all down to an all-in bottom line is the only way to go.

[Flinter]

As a self admitted lover of Hot hatches, I'm super happy that Ford has decided to bring the Focus ST to North America. By all accounts, this thing looks like the real deal and a worthy competitor to the GTI and Mazdaspeed3 in the FWD segment.

Having never driven a FWD car with the kind of torque numbers that this trio makes, I can't help wonder how putting all that torque to the ground affects the driving experience of each car. I also wonder if I was shopping for a hot hatch again would I just go back to the excellent WRX and have fun 12 months of the year at the expense of the more refined driving experience that these FWD cars purportedly offer.

On top of this, an enthusiast buyer in this price range has some excellent RWD offerrings you'd have to consider like the BRZ, FR-S, Mustang V6, Genesis 2.0T. Of course you loose the awesome practicality of a hatchback with this group.

All I know for sure is that it's an terrific time to be a car enthusiast with ~$30K in your pocket.

[Fobroader]

Agreed, now to go through the couch and find me that elusive $30k 

[wing]

saw one today in the Orange color like my tester was, such a nice car

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[Cord]

no, you're correct...the non-stop "Family & Friends" discounts and 6% interest rates are great...move along.

I knew I remembered discussing this. Just thought I'd resurrect it after seeing Hyundai promoting its Employee Friends and Family Pricing sale. 

[dirtyjeffer]

no, you're correct...the non-stop "Family & Friends" discounts and 6% interest rates are great...move along.

I knew I remembered discussing this. Just thought I'd resurrect it after seeing Hyundai promoting its Employee Friends and Family Pricing sale. 

yea, yea.

the difference is this is Hyundai's first F&F "special"...Ford (and others) is virtually non-stop.

if you look at the offers, aside from some clearance 2012 models, the discounts are fairly "minimal"...$425 on Accent...$1675-$1750 on Elantra...$400 on Veloster...$1150 on Sante Fe...$2000 on Tuscon...$3250 on Sonata.

the reason the discounts are minimal is the interest rates are still respectable, and the pricing is already realistic from the start.

soooo, you were saying?

[Cord]

no, you're correct...the non-stop "Family & Friends" discounts and 6% interest rates are great...move along.

I knew I remembered discussing this. Just thought I'd resurrect it after seeing Hyundai promoting its Employee Friends and Family Pricing sale. 

yea, yea.

the difference is this is Hyundai's first F&F "special"...Ford (and others) is virtually non-stop.

if you look at the offers, aside from some clearance 2012 models, the discounts are fairly "minimal"...$425 on Accent...$1675-$1750 on Elantra...$400 on Veloster...$1150 on Sante Fe...$2000 on Tuscon...$3250 on Sonata.

the reason the discounts are minimal is the interest rates are still respectable, and the pricing is already realistic from the start.

soooo, you were saying?

I agree, it's a heckuva promotion. Ford has had great success with it for years. Hyundai is probably smart to copy what Ford does.

[dirtyjeffer]

last month, Volvo had a great promotion...a nice S60 T6 AWD for $4000 off, 0.9/60 financing and 5 years warranty/maintenance/roadside assistance/wear&tear...now THAT was a good deal...a very well equipped T6 AWD was about $41k (only model above it was the R-type package).

[Northernridge]

last month, Volvo had a great promotion...a nice S60 T6 AWD for $4000 off, 0.9/60 financing and 5 years warranty/maintenance/roadside assistance/wear&tear...now THAT was a good deal...a very well equipped T6 AWD was about $41k (only model above it was the R-type package).

At the risk of agitating the value debate again...