Author Topic: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C  (Read 14760 times)

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2014, 05:43:15 am »
I'm pretty sure Maserati and Ferrari managers are going to do their best to block the migration of their engines to another brand.

where do you get that idea? Ferrari, Maser, and Alfa are all owned by Fiat. They all have shared engines and engine tech since the takeover [think Maserati Granturismo V8 and Alfa Romeo 8C's V8...same engine, plus many more examples]. Of course Fiat wants to save money by sharing engine tech across the lines - look how well it is working for the VW group...

It would be ruinously costly for Alfa to develop their own engines when perfectly good ones are sitting already developed by their sister companies. Of course there would be different tunes, and possibly different induction methods, but it would be stupid of them to not share the engines.

Plus I dont think the bosses of Maser and Ferrari have any say in the matter whatsoever...if Sergio wants Alfa to be a major player again they have to put out world-winning cars, and save cash wherever possible along the way in terms of chassis and engine development.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2014, 01:55:32 pm »
I'm pretty sure Maserati and Ferrari managers are going to do their best to block the migration of their engines to another brand.

where do you get that idea? Ferrari, Maser, and Alfa are all owned by Fiat. They all have shared engines and engine tech since the takeover [think Maserati Granturismo V8 and Alfa Romeo 8C's V8...same engine, plus many more examples]. Of course Fiat wants to save money by sharing engine tech across the lines - look how well it is working for the VW group...

It would be ruinously costly for Alfa to develop their own engines when perfectly good ones are sitting already developed by their sister companies. Of course there would be different tunes, and possibly different induction methods, but it would be stupid of them to not share the engines.

Plus I dont think the bosses of Maser and Ferrari have any say in the matter whatsoever...if Sergio wants Alfa to be a major player again they have to put out world-winning cars, and save cash wherever possible along the way in terms of chassis and engine development.

I know they're all Fiat companies. I also know that Ferrari did not want to share their tech with Maserati and both Maser and Ferrari look down their noses at Alfa Lancia and especially Fiat. There is a fairly long tradition of infighting under the Fiat umbrella. I don't think Ferrari ever really got over being acquired by such a pedestrian brand.
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Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2014, 02:34:04 pm »
I'm pretty sure Maserati and Ferrari managers are going to do their best to block the migration of their engines to another brand.

where do you get that idea? Ferrari, Maser, and Alfa are all owned by Fiat. They all have shared engines and engine tech since the takeover [think Maserati Granturismo V8 and Alfa Romeo 8C's V8...same engine, plus many more examples]. Of course Fiat wants to save money by sharing engine tech across the lines - look how well it is working for the VW group...

It would be ruinously costly for Alfa to develop their own engines when perfectly good ones are sitting already developed by their sister companies. Of course there would be different tunes, and possibly different induction methods, but it would be stupid of them to not share the engines.

Plus I dont think the bosses of Maser and Ferrari have any say in the matter whatsoever...if Sergio wants Alfa to be a major player again they have to put out world-winning cars, and save cash wherever possible along the way in terms of chassis and engine development.

I know they're all Fiat companies. I also know that Ferrari did not want to share their tech with Maserati and both Maser and Ferrari look down their noses at Alfa Lancia and especially Fiat. There is a fairly long tradition of infighting under the Fiat umbrella. I don't think Ferrari ever really got over being acquired by such a pedestrian brand.

well thanks to that pedestrian brand, they have massive R&D funds to make amazing cars such as the F12, LaFerrari, etc.

Yes the hierarchy goes Ferrari > Maserati > Alfa Romeo > Fiat. [I don't count Lancia they are all but dead now, sadly]. That wont stop Sergio from sharing engines across the range. It was done before with the engines in the 3200GT/Gransport/Quattroporte/Granturismo/8C. Ferrari developed, tuned by Maser/Alfa. To do otherwise would be expensive, and frankly, stupid. I am sure the CEOs of the respective brands can understand that. Also, you need all the models of that corporate ladder to do well, as buyers as they mature would move up that ladder, from a Fiat all the way to one day getting that dream Ferrari.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2014, 03:01:15 pm »
well thanks to that pedestrian brand, they have massive R&D funds to make amazing cars such as the F12, LaFerrari, etc.

Yes the hierarchy goes Ferrari > Maserati > Alfa Romeo > Fiat. [I don't count Lancia they are all but dead now, sadly]. That wont stop Sergio from sharing engines across the range. It was done before with the engines in the 3200GT/Gransport/Quattroporte/Granturismo/8C. Ferrari developed, tuned by Maser/Alfa. To do otherwise would be expensive, and frankly, stupid. I am sure the CEOs of the respective brands can understand that. Also, you need all the models of that corporate ladder to do well, as buyers as they mature would move up that ladder, from a Fiat all the way to one day getting that dream Ferrari.

Without Fiat, Ferrari would have been a dead brand or bought out by someone else, probably Ford at that point. That doesn't mean the brand managers like the situation, or are grateful.

Once Maser got the Ferrari engine, it was pretty much replaced in the Ferrari lineup. Back when the Lancia Thema 8.32 got the Ferrari 3.0L V8 there was quite a bit of behind the scenes squawking from Ferrari about it's use, even though it was phased out in Ferraris. Ferrari got it's nose out of joint again when the Maserati MC12 pulled a few faster times than the Enzo it was based on.

Senior management can, and certainly should, force the issue of tech and component sharing, but the individual brands can do quite a bit to stall and disrupt things if they choose to. I'm pretty skeptical that many Ferrari components will make it to Alfa.


Offline rrocket

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Re: Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2014, 06:37:56 pm »


That doesn't mean the brand managers like the situation, or are grateful.



That's the culture of Ferrari management. Arrogance.
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Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2014, 09:17:40 am »
well thanks to that pedestrian brand, they have massive R&D funds to make amazing cars such as the F12, LaFerrari, etc.

Yes the hierarchy goes Ferrari > Maserati > Alfa Romeo > Fiat. [I don't count Lancia they are all but dead now, sadly]. That wont stop Sergio from sharing engines across the range. It was done before with the engines in the 3200GT/Gransport/Quattroporte/Granturismo/8C. Ferrari developed, tuned by Maser/Alfa. To do otherwise would be expensive, and frankly, stupid. I am sure the CEOs of the respective brands can understand that. Also, you need all the models of that corporate ladder to do well, as buyers as they mature would move up that ladder, from a Fiat all the way to one day getting that dream Ferrari.

Without Fiat, Ferrari would have been a dead brand or bought out by someone else, probably Ford at that point. That doesn't mean the brand managers like the situation, or are grateful.

Once Maser got the Ferrari engine, it was pretty much replaced in the Ferrari lineup. Back when the Lancia Thema 8.32 got the Ferrari 3.0L V8 there was quite a bit of behind the scenes squawking from Ferrari about it's use, even though it was phased out in Ferraris. Ferrari got it's nose out of joint again when the Maserati MC12 pulled a few faster times than the Enzo it was based on.

Senior management can, and certainly should, force the issue of tech and component sharing, but the individual brands can do quite a bit to stall and disrupt things if they choose to. I'm pretty skeptical that many Ferrari components will make it to Alfa.
I wouldn't be so skeptical. Their engine tech is already all over the Maserati lineup - from top to bottom. Maserati have no issues with sharing their engines with their little brother, Alfa, at all. As long as the Alfa was not faster nor more luxurious than the Maser [easy to do, they have different mission statements in brand philosophy - sport vs GT], then all will be well.

Ferrari may get its nose all crooked at this, but I am sure they wont object to the California orders that come in from the Alfa owner who got that big raise...

You will see.

Offline bluelines

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2014, 02:28:32 pm »
Aren't the turbo V6 engines in new Maseratis actually based on Chrysler's Pentastar engines? I don't think there is any Ferrari engine tech. in a Ghibli V6.

I think you're also overstating how good Alfa sedans and hatches of the '90s and '00s actually were. Most UK reviewers were pretty unimpressed by the handling dynamics of the 155, 156, 159, 147 and every model since, saying that none of them could come close to matching the abilities of a BMW 3 series, for example. On top of that, interior quality and reliability was pretty abysmal, and the dealer network was routinely mentioned as being the very worst in the UK market.

The MiTo and Giulietta are dynamically way off the pace and just can't cash the cheques written by their styling.

It says a lot about the strength of the Alfa brand that I still want them to succeed. But it has been literally decades since they've had a truly competitive volume seller product. I would say it's a lot easier to make a very focused niche and expensive sports car with low sales volume expectations than it is to make a truly competitive sports sedan or compact car.

well thanks to that pedestrian brand, they have massive R&D funds to make amazing cars such as the F12, LaFerrari, etc.

Yes the hierarchy goes Ferrari > Maserati > Alfa Romeo > Fiat. [I don't count Lancia they are all but dead now, sadly]. That wont stop Sergio from sharing engines across the range. It was done before with the engines in the 3200GT/Gransport/Quattroporte/Granturismo/8C. Ferrari developed, tuned by Maser/Alfa. To do otherwise would be expensive, and frankly, stupid. I am sure the CEOs of the respective brands can understand that. Also, you need all the models of that corporate ladder to do well, as buyers as they mature would move up that ladder, from a Fiat all the way to one day getting that dream Ferrari.

Without Fiat, Ferrari would have been a dead brand or bought out by someone else, probably Ford at that point. That doesn't mean the brand managers like the situation, or are grateful.

Once Maser got the Ferrari engine, it was pretty much replaced in the Ferrari lineup. Back when the Lancia Thema 8.32 got the Ferrari 3.0L V8 there was quite a bit of behind the scenes squawking from Ferrari about it's use, even though it was phased out in Ferraris. Ferrari got it's nose out of joint again when the Maserati MC12 pulled a few faster times than the Enzo it was based on.

Senior management can, and certainly should, force the issue of tech and component sharing, but the individual brands can do quite a bit to stall and disrupt things if they choose to. I'm pretty skeptical that many Ferrari components will make it to Alfa.
I wouldn't be so skeptical. Their engine tech is already all over the Maserati lineup - from top to bottom. Maserati have no issues with sharing their engines with their little brother, Alfa, at all. As long as the Alfa was not faster nor more luxurious than the Maser [easy to do, they have different mission statements in brand philosophy - sport vs GT], then all will be well.

Ferrari may get its nose all crooked at this, but I am sure they wont object to the California orders that come in from the Alfa owner who got that big raise...

You will see.

Offline Calbrez

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2014, 05:39:12 pm »
I'm pretty sure Maserati and Ferrari managers are going to do their best to block the migration of their engines to another brand.

where do you get that idea? Ferrari, Maser, and Alfa are all owned by Fiat. They all have shared engines and engine tech since the takeover [think Maserati Granturismo V8 and Alfa Romeo 8C's V8...same engine, plus many more examples]. Of course Fiat wants to save money by sharing engine tech across the lines - look how well it is working for the VW group...

It would be ruinously costly for Alfa to develop their own engines when perfectly good ones are sitting already developed by their sister companies. Of course there would be different tunes, and possibly different induction methods, but it would be stupid of them to not share the engines.

Plus I dont think the bosses of Maser and Ferrari have any say in the matter whatsoever...if Sergio wants Alfa to be a major player again they have to put out world-winning cars, and save cash wherever possible along the way in terms of chassis and engine development.

I know they're all Fiat companies. I also know that Ferrari did not want to share their tech with Maserati and both Maser and Ferrari look down their noses at Alfa Lancia and especially Fiat. There is a fairly long tradition of infighting under the Fiat umbrella. I don't think Ferrari ever really got over being acquired by such a pedestrian brand.

Perhaps, but Ferrari sales have never been better... it's profit margins, never higher... so Fiat certainly didn't hurt the brand...

Offline jamesautos

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Re: First Drive: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2014, 06:40:16 pm »
The good thing is that you can tell people that your Fiat has the same engine as an Alfa, or your v6 Chrysler has the same engine as a Maserati... or your v8 Maserati has the same engine as a Ferrari...