Topic: Comparison Test: Luxury Heavyweights

[lebowski]

I've had countless near-misses with drivers of Escalades and similar which tell me otherwise.

Interesting.  The other day I had a close call caused by a distracted Asian driver.  Your reasoning gives me free license to draw general conclusions about Asian drivers.

Odd you'd feel you require my reasoning to draw your own conclusions.

Alternatively, the conclusion drawn in reliance upon your logic reveals a fatal flaw in your logic.

I don't see it - forgive this poorly developed scientific mind. It seems like you want this to be an academic argument, and it's not: these are my experiences - empirical evidence, or whatever it's called.

The majority of my personal experiences driving (or bicycling) around downtown Montreal  while in close proximity to Escalades (and Navigators/Expeditions), culminated in displays of reckless driving on the part of said Escalades, e.g. abrupt, non-signalled lane changes and -worse- turns onto cross streets, as well as abrupt stopping, often putting me and other motorists in danger. Yes, other drivers and cars do this, too, but the results of their negligence are often not as potentially disastrous, due to the size of said Escalade. This has been my experience. Your mileage may vary.

[edit] I should add that although drivers in other cars do this, it is easier to be reckless in a larger car/truck where you take up more road and can't see, stop, or go as well as others.

[lebowski]

I don't think there's anyone arguing that these things aren't silly in a dense Urban setting. A 911 Turbo is equally silly in a dense urban setting but those threads don't get sidetracked by the high-horse. Stating that these things are a danger to us of the road is a stretch. People driving 20 year old rusty cars with bald tires are a danger on the road, not Canada-Joe in his brand new Escalade, Yukon XL, whatever.

A 911 turbo is a small car that can, to say the least, get out of its own way and stop on a dime. Big difference there, dude. And a 20 year old rusty car….seriously? Surely you see the false equivalency there - otherwise, what else? A hearse? Schoolbus? Amphicar??

Noted you think I'm exaggerating and/or being condescending. That's fine - I've had countless near-misses with drivers of Escalades and similar which tell me otherwise.

Again with the generalizations about the drivers of these, I have had close calls with every sex, race, religion and age range of drivers out there. You know, if you cut me off in a luxo barge or a chit-box Yaris and we have an accident.....its still an accident. Ive been cut off, almost hit, made to swerve into the shoulder by idiots armed with everything from H2's to Miatas and everything in between, bein g a moron driver doesnt exclusively happen to SUV drivers, though texting seems to be the biggest problem among all groups though.

Yes, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we can't infer that certain buyers of certain types of cars will be prone to certain behaviours, i.e. buyers of expensive, massive SUV's will be more likely to believe they "own the road" and will drive accordingly.

[lebowski]

Drawing a dogmatic conclusion based on anecdotal experience.  No departure from the scientific method there. 

To the jaundiced eye all is yellow.  No point arguing with a zealot.

Outside of your ivory tower and ultimately academic approach, my reality contains big luxury SUV's in my city who, in my experience, more often than not, drive recklessly. If an Escalade driver runs me over, does it matter if it was an anecdotal experience? I'd prefer to let me alleged prejudices keep me alive.

[Fobroader]

I don't think there's anyone arguing that these things aren't silly in a dense Urban setting. A 911 Turbo is equally silly in a dense urban setting but those threads don't get sidetracked by the high-horse. Stating that these things are a danger to us of the road is a stretch. People driving 20 year old rusty cars with bald tires are a danger on the road, not Canada-Joe in his brand new Escalade, Yukon XL, whatever.

A 911 turbo is a small car that can, to say the least, get out of its own way and stop on a dime. Big difference there, dude. And a 20 year old rusty car….seriously? Surely you see the false equivalency there - otherwise, what else? A hearse? Schoolbus? Amphicar??

Noted you think I'm exaggerating and/or being condescending. That's fine - I've had countless near-misses with drivers of Escalades and similar which tell me otherwise.

Again with the generalizations about the drivers of these, I have had close calls with every sex, race, religion and age range of drivers out there. You know, if you cut me off in a luxo barge or a chit-box Yaris and we have an accident.....its still an accident. Ive been cut off, almost hit, made to swerve into the shoulder by idiots armed with everything from H2's to Miatas and everything in between, bein g a moron driver doesnt exclusively happen to SUV drivers, though texting seems to be the biggest problem among all groups though.

Yes, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we can't infer that certain buyers of certain types of cars will be prone to certain behaviours, i.e. buyers of expensive, massive SUV's will be more likely to believe they "own the road" and will drive accordingly.

But so will the young punk driving a riced out civic, or the guy with the M5, or the guy with the 911, or the guy with the Viper.......and so on and so forth. These are a status symbol like a fancy purse or a big, gawdy gold Rolex watch, only these tow a lot, can go through a lot of snow and comfortably tote you and 4 of your freinds.....except the Expedition/Lincoln thing look absolutely offensive doing it IMO. Like I said, you can be a delta bravo in anything you drive....

[lebowski]

I don't think there's anyone arguing that these things aren't silly in a dense Urban setting. A 911 Turbo is equally silly in a dense urban setting but those threads don't get sidetracked by the high-horse. Stating that these things are a danger to us of the road is a stretch. People driving 20 year old rusty cars with bald tires are a danger on the road, not Canada-Joe in his brand new Escalade, Yukon XL, whatever.

A 911 turbo is a small car that can, to say the least, get out of its own way and stop on a dime. Big difference there, dude. And a 20 year old rusty car….seriously? Surely you see the false equivalency there - otherwise, what else? A hearse? Schoolbus? Amphicar??

Noted you think I'm exaggerating and/or being condescending. That's fine - I've had countless near-misses with drivers of Escalades and similar which tell me otherwise.

Again with the generalizations about the drivers of these, I have had close calls with every sex, race, religion and age range of drivers out there. You know, if you cut me off in a luxo barge or a chit-box Yaris and we have an accident.....its still an accident. Ive been cut off, almost hit, made to swerve into the shoulder by idiots armed with everything from H2's to Miatas and everything in between, bein g a moron driver doesnt exclusively happen to SUV drivers, though texting seems to be the biggest problem among all groups though.

Yes, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we can't infer that certain buyers of certain types of cars will be prone to certain behaviours, i.e. buyers of expensive, massive SUV's will be more likely to believe they "own the road" and will drive accordingly.

But so will the young punk driving a riced out civic, or the guy with the M5, or the guy with the 911, or the guy with the Viper.......and so on and so forth. These are a status symbol like a fancy purse or a big, gawdy gold Rolex watch, only these tow a lot, can go through a lot of snow and comfortably tote you and 4 of your freinds.....except the Expedition/Lincoln thing look absolutely offensive doing it IMO. Like I said, you can be a delta bravo in anything you drive....

I don't disagree with you but my point is the size of the SUV makes it that much worse than others, i.e. would you rather have a bull or a chihuahua in your china shop?

[aaronk]

In my personal experience, I do find that larger vehicles (excluding transport trucks) tend to have an "own the road" attitude. I think that's why certain individuals aspire to such a vehicle, especially for a single driver, as opposed to a luxurious sedan/coupe/convertible. I'm not saying ALL, just more than other types of vehicles. Again, in my own experience, I find the worst are mid-day drivers in luxurious pickup trucks or large SUV's. These are often company vehicles and the drivers have some place to be and, feeling that their time is more valuable than everyone else in traffic, decide that using their size/weight can be an advantage when flying up an onramp and shoving back into traffic at every opportunity.

I realize I'm on a rant now, but the worst is heading North at 4-6pm at the 401 East/West split. The merge lanes slow down, but instead of queuing and waiting, car after car hammers up the exit ramps and then barges into the desired lane at the last minute, slowing everyone who actually waited.

[Fobroader]

The little town im In, every luxo barge SUV is owned by a woman, either soccer mom or middle aged and they love going around with a phone imbedded into the side of their head. Now Ive seen some stuff that will blow your mind, specially since most of the side street are a 40Km/H limit, so I get perfectly why drivers of small cars would be afraid of these kind of people armed with 6000Lbs+ of fake wood and plastic chrome.

[lebowski]

Again with the generalizations about the drivers of these, I have had close calls with every sex, race, religion and age range of drivers out there. You know, if you cut me off in a luxo barge or a chit-box Yaris and we have an accident.....its still an accident. Ive been cut off, almost hit, made to swerve into the shoulder by idiots armed with everything from H2's to Miatas and everything in between, bein g a moron driver doesnt exclusively happen to SUV drivers, though texting seems to be the biggest problem among all groups though.

Fobroader, I went back and re-read your earlier post and I just want to clarify what I previously said: If you absolutely need a rig as big as an Escalade, Yukon XL, or similar, that's obviously your prerogative and more power to you - my criticisms lie with those who don't actually need anything close to the size or capability of these cars, but buy and drive them recklessly in already-congested cities, with little regard for their fellow motorists.

[CanuckS2K]

Again with the generalizations about the drivers of these, I have had close calls with every sex, race, religion and age range of drivers out there. You know, if you cut me off in a luxo barge or a chit-box Yaris and we have an accident.....its still an accident. Ive been cut off, almost hit, made to swerve into the shoulder by idiots armed with everything from H2's to Miatas and everything in between, bein g a moron driver doesnt exclusively happen to SUV drivers, though texting seems to be the biggest problem among all groups though.

Fobroader, I went back and re-read your earlier post and I just want to clarify what I previously said: If you absolutely need a rig as big as an Escalade, Yukon XL, or similar, that's obviously your prerogative and more power to you - my criticisms lie with those who don't actually need anything close to the size or capability of these cars, but buy and drive them recklessly in already-congested cities, with little regard for their fellow motorists.

I totally get what you're saying regarding people driving these vehicles recklessly.  It's not good when anyone on public roads drive's like an @sshat, especially in vehicles of this size.  BUT, your criticisms about people buying and driving something that they don't actually need is another story.  I don't need an S2000 in my driveway either, but I certainly want one.  What people buy and the reasons for buying it is their business and their business only. 

[lebowski]

I totally get what you're saying regarding people driving these vehicles recklessly.  It's not good when anyone on public roads drive's like an @sshat, especially in vehicles of this size.  BUT, your criticisms about people buying and driving something that they don't actually need is another story.  I don't need an S2000 in my driveway either, but I certainly want one.  What people buy and the reasons for buying it is their business and their business only.

Yes, you're right. Of course people can buy what they like, so long as it doesn't affect me. My mentioning that some don't even need the capability or size of an SUV is a suggestion that not needing an SUV's capability could be tantamount to not understanding said capability, and also not understanding how big and dangerous their SUV's are. Therefore they will drive them accordingly.

[micha]

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/CADILLAC/Escalade/ALTONA/Manitoba/5_13299624_CT2003102413234319/

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/CADILLAC/Escalade/RODNEY/Ontario/5_12261736_ON20080312091254922/

Looking at these makes me wonder about actual transaction prices. I can't imagine a 40%+ depreciation hit within one year. They must give huge discounts, no?

[jyarkony]

I would have called this article "Jurassic Where-Can-I-Park?"   

 

+1 

+7   

[aaronk]

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/CADILLAC/Escalade/ALTONA/Manitoba/5_13299624_CT2003102413234319/

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/CADILLAC/Escalade/RODNEY/Ontario/5_12261736_ON20080312091254922/

Looking at these makes me wonder about actual transaction prices. I can't imagine a 40%+ depreciation hit within one year. They must give huge discounts, no?

Some could be U.S. vehicles, but more than likely it's just depreciation. Right now on Caddy's web site they're offering $7K off MSRP, and I'm sure one could easily find another $2-3K in savings - so like $70K for a 'base model' Escalade. $20K is a lot of depreciation for 1 year but I believe it.

Assuming the one example had around 20,000 Kms and dropped in price (at least) $20K, that vehicle was costing $1/Km just in depreciation!