Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Mercedes-Benz C 250 Coupe

[Snowman]

I stopped by the local MB dealer and looked at the C-Class. I found the material quality not up to the price point of the car. For $38k including freight and PDI you could get a very nice Infiniti G25, which has similar power and a much nicer interior. All the goodies like heated seats are also included which are optional on the MB.

A loaded TL goes for $41,500.



A base C250 with freight and PDI is $42,000. Not worth it.

  The TL with Tech package is a great deal.

[rrocket]

+1   And available with a 6 speed manual.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

+1   And available with a 6 speed manual.

Just like the Regal GS. 

[whaddaiknow]

I stopped by the local MB dealer and looked at the C-Class. I found the material quality not up to the price point of the car. For $38k including freight and PDI you could get a very nice Infiniti G25, which has similar power and a much nicer interior. All the goodies like heated seats are also included which are optional on the MB.

A loaded TL goes for $41,500.

A base C250 with freight and PDI is $42,000. Not worth it.

You certainly have a point, and if paying cash, TL or G25 make perfect sense compared to MB or BMW. However, a large percentage of premiuim cars (if not the majority) are leased since lease costs are an expense for business owners. So when you look at the lease option, the picture is not so clear anymore.
It was a no brainer for me when I compared the 328i to the TL which, at a similar MSRP, was a good 40% more expensive than the bimmer all factored in.
So the MSRP may be misleading depending on your financial arrangements. Besides, this 'C' is new with a new engine and interior, you can't expect it to be sold at the Optima price level.

[Vanstar]

I stopped by the local MB dealer and looked at the C-Class. I found the material quality not up to the price point of the car. For $38k including freight and PDI you could get a very nice Infiniti G25, which has similar power and a much nicer interior. All the goodies like heated seats are also included which are optional on the MB.

A loaded TL goes for $41,500.

A base C250 with freight and PDI is $42,000. Not worth it.

You certainly have a point, and if paying cash, TL or G25 make perfect sense compared to MB or BMW. However, a large percentage of premiuim cars (if not the majority) are leased since lease costs are an expense for business owners. So when you look at the lease option, the picture is not so clear anymore.
It was a no brainer for me when I compared the 328i to the TL which, at a similar MSRP, was a good 40% more expensive than the bimmer all factored in.
So the MSRP may be misleading depending on your financial arrangements. Besides, this 'C' is new with a new engine and interior, you can't expect it to be sold at the Optima price level.

Very good points. I never buy Japanese luxury cars new; a three year old TL off lease with low KM can be had in Vancouver for less than $25k. That is what I would buy and save a load of dough.

I also pay cash for cars. One way or the other you will pay. As an aside, I configured a C250 with Sport Package and NAV and the lease on zero down was almost identical to the TL with Tech.

[whaddaiknow]

I stopped by the local MB dealer and looked at the C-Class. I found the material quality not up to the price point of the car. For $38k including freight and PDI you could get a very nice Infiniti G25, which has similar power and a much nicer interior. All the goodies like heated seats are also included which are optional on the MB.

A loaded TL goes for $41,500.

A base C250 with freight and PDI is $42,000. Not worth it.

You certainly have a point, and if paying cash, TL or G25 make perfect sense compared to MB or BMW. However, a large percentage of premiuim cars (if not the majority) are leased since lease costs are an expense for business owners. So when you look at the lease option, the picture is not so clear anymore.
It was a no brainer for me when I compared the 328i to the TL which, at a similar MSRP, was a good 40% more expensive than the bimmer all factored in.
So the MSRP may be misleading depending on your financial arrangements. Besides, this 'C' is new with a new engine and interior, you can't expect it to be sold at the Optima price level.

Very good points. I never buy Japanese luxury cars new; a three year old TL off lease with low KM can be had in Vancouver for less than $25k. That is what I would buy and save a load of dough.

I also pay cash for cars. One way or the other you will pay. As an aside, I configured a C250 with Sport Package and NAV and the lease on zero down was almost identical to the TL with Tech.

I also find, from experience, that the numbers as configured are closer to the actual transaction numbers when at Japanese showrooms than the German showrooms. I couldn't believe a year ago that I could drive away in a new 328i xDrive for $450/month while the best the Lexus dealer could come up with was $510 for a much "lesser" car, the RWD IS250, that had a significantly lower MSRP.

If this new 'C' doesn't sell well, the deals will roll in. Not so much with the big 3 from Japan who tend to stand their ground.

[Vanstar]

I stopped by the local MB dealer and looked at the C-Class. I found the material quality not up to the price point of the car. For $38k including freight and PDI you could get a very nice Infiniti G25, which has similar power and a much nicer interior. All the goodies like heated seats are also included which are optional on the MB.

A loaded TL goes for $41,500.

A base C250 with freight and PDI is $42,000. Not worth it.

You certainly have a point, and if paying cash, TL or G25 make perfect sense compared to MB or BMW. However, a large percentage of premiuim cars (if not the majority) are leased since lease costs are an expense for business owners. So when you look at the lease option, the picture is not so clear anymore.
It was a no brainer for me when I compared the 328i to the TL which, at a similar MSRP, was a good 40% more expensive than the bimmer all factored in.
So the MSRP may be misleading depending on your financial arrangements. Besides, this 'C' is new with a new engine and interior, you can't expect it to be sold at the Optima price level.

Very good points. I never buy Japanese luxury cars new; a three year old TL off lease with low KM can be had in Vancouver for less than $25k. That is what I would buy and save a load of dough.

I also pay cash for cars. One way or the other you will pay. As an aside, I configured a C250 with Sport Package and NAV and the lease on zero down was almost identical to the TL with Tech.

I also find, from experience, that the numbers as configured are closer to the actual transaction numbers when at Japanese showrooms than the German showrooms. I couldn't believe a year ago that I could drive away in a new 328i xDrive for $450/month while the best the Lexus dealer could come up with was $510 for a much "lesser" car, the RWD IS250, that had a significantly lower MSRP.

If this new 'C' doesn't sell well, the deals will roll in. Not so much with the big 3 from Japan who tend to stand their ground.

Must mean better residuals on the German cars, or said German makers are taking a bath after the leases are over, which is also possible. GM and Ford did it for years to move product. There would be a fair amount of wiggle room at their prices, too.

Still, this just goes to show that it is much better to buy a Japanese luxury car used. A used German car is a money pit and much better leased new.

[whaddaiknow]

Must mean better residuals on the German cars, or said German makers are taking a bath after the leases are over, which is also possible. GM and Ford did it for years to move product. There would be a fair amount of wiggle room at their prices, too.

Still, this just goes to show that it is much better to buy a Japanese luxury car used. A used German car is a money pit and much better leased new.

I agree wholeheartedly. A colleague of mine is on his 3rd 5-series since 2003 and hasn't had any mechanical or electrical issues with any of them. Maybe just his luck but maybe they ain't all that bad when well maintained and taken care of. At least I'm not convinced and wouldn't buy a used 5-series.

The 4-year lease with all maintenance included works very well for me and I am not planning to keep the car beyond that. What happens after, dunno don't care.

As a side note, after the first 10,000km (as of yesterday) not a single complaint, not a squeak, not a rattle, she's just getting smoother and smoother.
3-series have never been all that bad in the reliability dept, though.

[mmret]

This is likely due to gearing, weight, area under hp and tq curves etc...

I have longed wanted to see a car reviewer/engineer describe the calculus of the dyno charts.  IN particular, integrate those lines and give us the area under the curve!  In pharmacology we use drug concentration area under the curve to determine overall drug exposure.  I imagine that engine performance could use a similar metric.  Not that the peak drug concentrations (or peak HP/TQ) aren't important, but they only give you relevant information at one point in time, as opposed to the entire spectrum.  Area under the curve might be a better assessment.  Of course, cars with increased redlines would have a larger AUC just because their x-axis would be longer than others...  Maybe an "average HP/TQ" based on the AUC divided by the RPMs?  Any engineers out there have a better idea?

While the curve itself would give the fullest and best description, I think I could live with:

S=idle RPM
R=redline
T(r)= Torque

1. integrated T(r) from S to R/2 , divided by R/2-S
2. integrated T(r) from R/2 to R, divided by R/2
3. Standard deviation of T(r) for both of the above

Which is the AUC/RPM metric you described but split into two chunks along with some description of the "flatness" of the curve. Horsepower is less useful as a number since its derived from torque*rpms.

I wonder though if it might be better to fix the integration points (possibly different for gasoline vs diesels). 1500rpm to 4000rpm or thereabouts is the relevant range for most day to day activities.

[The Mighty Duck]

Full disclosure: I have never been a big fan of Mercedes. But I have liked the recent C-class sedans. They look great, and seem to have found a good balance on price and features (for a German luxury brand, at least).

The front end of this car looks fantastic. The rest... I think the sedan looks better. So I can't think of any reason to buy the coupe over the sedan - as has been said, buying a coupe is usually about the looks. And $40k for a 200hp, not-so-attractive coupe that only comes in automatic?

Forget about it.

This car has some potential. I think there is space for a C-class coupe. But it hasn't gotten the equation quite right, has it?