Author Topic: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD  (Read 36481 times)

Offline Arctic_White

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2015, 01:46:51 am »

Poll here:

Who has ever spent more $ routinely on "maintenance" of an AWD system?  I've never.  Honest question.

Correct that AWD is not 100% necessary - but that depends on your definition of necessary.  Is it necessary to have winter tires?  Technically, no (but arguably, you'd be an idiot to not make your vehicle as winter ready as possible).  (<--- The same argument can be made for AWD vs FWD in terms of winter driving.)

Back to your idea of highway vs city, I still disagree.  In the city, you have to turn on occasion - not all roads are straight, and you more frequently slow to turn at intersections.  How, then, is AWD not more helpful in the city?

AWD does result in driveline losses (power penalty) and higher fuel consumption (by virtue of the increased weight of the extra components).  It does cost more to purchase in the first instance.  It is, without a doubt, more expensive.

...but your claim that it is not a safety feature is what I am arguing against.  It very much is a safety feature.  Feature - not necessity in the truest of senses.  But where you are purchasing a vehicle that comes in either FWD or AWD, you would be nuts to not choose the AWD option IF you are concerned about winter safety.

With more components that can break, it is very likely that AWD will (could?) end up costing more in maintenance. 

I think you and I have a fundamental difference in understanding on what constitutes "safety."  If someone is really concerned about safety yet chooses to drive fast during a snow storm, then I'd question his understanding of physics.  If that person wants to go fast and is paying extra for AWD, then more power to him.  Claiming that he's getting an AWD simply for safety doesn't fly with me: AWD is a performance feature first and foremost.

Now, would I ever buy an SUV without AWD?  Heck, no!  But like most posters here, I value performance.  Yet I wouldn't buy AWD just for the name of "safety."  In order to be "safe," there are many things that a driver can do: not drive at all, drive at a much slower pace, transit, carpool, etc.



Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2015, 02:39:00 am »
Claiming that he's getting an AWD simply for safety doesn't fly with me: AWD is a performance feature first and foremost.



Disagree 100%.  I live near a lake.  When it snows, lake effect snow+wind leaves massive snow accumulation and drifts.  Even our car shod with the best set of winters tires on it is useless here...and extremely unsafe to drive in these conditions.  Whereas our SUV with AWD and snow tires walks through this safely and easily.  This has zero to do with performance and everything to do with maintaining control and arriving at our destination safely.  Even more so when the kid is in the car.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline bridgecity

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2015, 07:01:25 am »
Safer because it performs better?  :P ;D
Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.

Offline Noto

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2015, 11:25:42 am »
Poll here:

Who has ever spent more $ routinely on "maintenance" of an AWD system?  I've never.  Honest question.
With more components that can break, it is very likely that AWD will (could?) end up costing more in maintenance. 
I didn't ask what "(could?)" go wrong.  I asked a Poll of the Forum as to who has actually spent $ on maintenance/repair of an AWD system.

SirO is hanging his head in shame with your response. 

"very likely"...


I think you and I have a fundamental difference in understanding on what constitutes "safety."  If someone is really concerned about safety yet chooses to drive fast during a snow storm, then I'd question his understanding of physics.  If that person wants to go fast and is paying extra for AWD, then more power to him.  Claiming that he's getting an AWD simply for safety doesn't fly with me: AWD is a performance feature first and foremost.
You need to separate the issues.  This is not about AWD "enabling someone to drive faster."  Your premise is that AWD is not a safety feature.  Adding issues, such as driver error (or nonsense) does not remove the benefits of AWD.

Thank you, rrocket, for your input :)  ...and I agree, Wednesday night's South Park was GREAT!  I'm thinking it  (or the entire season) deserves a Pulitzer :P

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2015, 11:38:19 am »
I would argue that AWD could create a false sense of security for a driver in slippery weather.  I.E. you're able to get going faster, therefore you don't realize quite how slippery it is until you need to stop in a hurry.  At least in a FWD car, you would spin your tires for a bit, realize how slippery it is, and slow down. 

Hence why 13_FST is claiming that AWD is more of a performance/convenience tool than a safety item.  And I would tend to agree with him.  AWD will afford you the convenience of not getting stuck, and the performance of being able to out accelerate other cars at stop lights.

If you're in a remote area where freezing to death in a stuck car is an issue, then yeah AWD could be considered a safety feature.  But how many of us truly live/drive in very remote locations?

Offline Noto

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2015, 11:44:41 am »
I would argue that AWD could create a false sense of security for a driver in slippery weather.  I.E. you're able to get going faster, therefore you don't realize quite how slippery it is until you need to stop in a hurry. 
= driver input, irrespective of car.

Someone in a FWD car could detect the 'extra slippage' that you note and continue to ignore it.

The same argument could be made of winter tires - "I have winter tires so I can now drive through anything!  muahahahaha!"

or of a car's windshield wipers - "I don't need to clear my windshield with a brush/scraper because I have wiper blades to do that for me!"

or of a car's high beams - "I can see further, and so I can drive faster."

People will be idiots with everything you give them.  That does not, in and of itself, negate a benefit provided.  Without referring to driver error, AWD, with a vehicle's dynamics control programming, has the capability to correct unintended directional changes with further and selective power input.  This is especially true of a vehicle while underway at any speed above 0.

Offline Noto

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2015, 11:50:11 am »
Excellent point!


I got Vmango's approval for something!!!

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2015, 11:55:13 am »
I would argue that AWD could create a false sense of security for a driver in slippery weather.  I.E. you're able to get going faster, therefore you don't realize quite how slippery it is until you need to stop in a hurry. 
= driver input, irrespective of car.

Someone in a FWD car could detect the 'extra slippage' that you note and continue to ignore it.

The same argument could be made of winter tires - "I have winter tires so I can now drive through anything!  muahahahaha!"


Yeah, but at least proper winter tires, as well as helping a car accelerate faster, also help it stop sooner and corner better in slippery conditions.  AWD only helps you get moving faster.  It doesn't help you stop sooner, and it generally doesn't help you turn any better (fancy torque vectoring systems not-withstanding).

People will be idiots with everything you give them.  That does not, in and of itself, negate a benefit provided.  Without referring to driver error, AWD, with a vehicle's dynamics control programming, has the capability to correct unintended directional changes with further and selective power input.  This is especially true of a vehicle while underway at any speed above 0.

Not really true.  Aside from a few select systems, most vehicles VDC systems will use ABS and brakes to correct a car's course.  This is something that happens on both FWD cars and AWD cars, as long as both are equipped with VDC (I've felt it happen on my car, it's kinda neat).

I WILL make a concession that if you need to accelerate out of a bad situation, AWD will be safer.  Such a situation could involve you being stopped at an intersection with nobody in front of you and seeing a vehicle unable to stop behind you.

MOST bad situations in a car however, require either braking or steering inputs, not acceleration inputs.  As mentioned before, most AWD systems do not help you with steering or braking inputs.

We're not even delving into the fact that most AWD vehicles tend to have a higher center of gravity than FWD cars, and are therefore more prone to rollovers (yes, mostly negated with modern VDC systems, but still, physics is physics, and a higher center of gravity is easier to roll than a lower center of gravity).

I think a LOT of people here have fallen HARD into the marketing ploy that all the major car makers have undertaken promoting AWD as a safety item.  But this is the thing:  It's just marketing.  They're trying to upsell more expensive cars.  AWD is an easy upsell, especially when marketed as a safety item.

In reality, I think if you analyze it, AWD is a convenience/performance upsell, and much less of a safety upsell than it is made out to be.  Please note, I'm not trying to marginalize it.  AWD is VERY useful, and there are times when I wish I had it.  But I just don't think it makes a car any SAFER.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:07:25 pm by Great_Big_Abyss »

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2015, 01:20:50 pm »
I would argue that AWD could create a false sense of security for a driver in slippery weather.  I.E. you're able to get going faster, therefore you don't realize quite how slippery it is until you need to stop in a hurry. 


or of a car's windshield wipers - "I don't need to clear my windshield with a brush/scraper because I have wiper blades to do that for me!"


what is a snow brush  ???  :P  :rofl:

Offline tenpenny

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Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #129 on: November 25, 2015, 05:40:11 am »
So by following your logic, the only reason for getting a 4x4 truck would be so you can accelerate faster?

Is that why construction backhoes are 4x4 as well?

You're saying the only benefit to awd is faster acceleration?




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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #130 on: November 25, 2015, 10:25:07 am »
This is getting ridiculous.

This place is kind of like that.

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Offline dkaz

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Re: Test Drive: 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
« Reply #131 on: November 25, 2015, 03:11:58 pm »
In an offroad situation, yes you would absolutely want a 4x4 as well.

But how many 4x4s/4WDs actually see dirt these days?