Topic: Long-Term Test Update 1: 2013 Volkswagen Golf Wagon TDI Diesel

[Mike]

Again a nice piece of automotive journalistics for one really good vehicle!
But beyond the autor is the price of this people's car.

Yup, with taxes, the on the road price of this People's Car is over $40,000, far beyond the means of the staffers at Autos.ca or 90% of Canadians for that matter. I often wonder who "auto journalists" keep in touch with reality when they can drive other people's expensive machinery for free. It does seem ironic that they pan cars that they can actually afford to drive had they to plunk down their own paycheques to drive.

But then again, think of how much fuel you'll save for your $40k.

I know we don't make much at this gig, but how broke do you think we (or Canadians) are?  My last new car was $36K+ before tax.  Most of my favourite cars currently for sale are within my price range:

For me - BRZ, FR-S, Focus ST, MX-5

For her - CX-5, XV Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Elantra GT, Mazda3

[Solstice2006]

Again a nice piece of automotive journalistics for one really good vehicle!
But beyond the autor is the price of this people's car.

Yup, with taxes, the on the road price of this People's Car is over $40,000, far beyond the means of the staffers at Autos.ca or 90% of Canadians for that matter. I often wonder who "auto journalists" keep in touch with reality when they can drive other people's expensive machinery for free. It does seem ironic that they pan cars that they can actually afford to drive had they to plunk down their own paycheques to drive.

But then again, think of how much fuel you'll save for your $40k.

I know we don't make much at this gig, but how broke do you think we (or Canadians) are?  My last new car was $36K+ before tax.  Most of my favourite cars currently for sale are within my price range:

For me - BRZ, FR-S, Focus ST, MX-5

For her - CX-5, XV Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Elantra GT, Mazda3

My list is very similar, except For me: I would add the VW GTI, For Her: the Outback is too pricey, $35k before takes! I would sub that for a VW Golf Wagon, and also remove the XV Crosstek, not enough cargo.

[huota]

White is a nice colour on that car.  Some window tint needed though.

I agree.  White cars need Tint

Oh yeah. A car needs tint like a guy needs a mullet.

[safristi]

Huota a lil Skunk white tint in the middle then you'd be FINISH'ed.... ..damn dark there right now...so why the TINT fetish...land of the Midnite moon....

[Vanstar]

Again a nice piece of automotive journalistics for one really good vehicle!
But beyond the autor is the price of this people's car.

Yup, with taxes, the on the road price of this People's Car is over $40,000, far beyond the means of the staffers at Autos.ca or 90% of Canadians for that matter. I often wonder who "auto journalists" keep in touch with reality when they can drive other people's expensive machinery for free. It does seem ironic that they pan cars that they can actually afford to drive had they to plunk down their own paycheques to drive.

But then again, think of how much fuel you'll save for your $40k.

I know we don't make much at this gig, but how broke do you think we (or Canadians) are?  My last new car was $36K+ before tax.  Most of my favourite cars currently for sale are within my price range:

For me - BRZ, FR-S, Focus ST, MX-5

For her - CX-5, XV Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Elantra GT, Mazda3

No car should be more than one third of your NET annual income, period. Younger Canadians are wedded to cheap financing and this is what is causing them to drive cars that they can't really afford. When rates go up, and they most certainly will, lots of 30-somethings and younger will be in for a big shock, as will the car industry. Seems that what happened in 2008 is a distant memory.

The most popular cars in Canada all sell, on the road, for about $20k. That is exactly what most Canadians can truly afford.

[TheHire]

Again a nice piece of automotive journalistics for one really good vehicle!
But beyond the autor is the price of this people's car.

Yup, with taxes, the on the road price of this People's Car is over $40,000, far beyond the means of the staffers at Autos.ca or 90% of Canadians for that matter. I often wonder who "auto journalists" keep in touch with reality when they can drive other people's expensive machinery for free. It does seem ironic that they pan cars that they can actually afford to drive had they to plunk down their own paycheques to drive.

But then again, think of how much fuel you'll save for your $40k.

I know we don't make much at this gig, but how broke do you think we (or Canadians) are?  My last new car was $36K+ before tax.  Most of my favourite cars currently for sale are within my price range:

For me - BRZ, FR-S, Focus ST, MX-5

For her - CX-5, XV Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Elantra GT, Mazda3

+1.

My last used car (the E-Class) was $30K, and I didn't finance.

[whaddaiknow]

No car should be more than one third of your NET annual income, period. Younger Canadians are wedded to cheap financing and this is what is causing them to drive cars that they can't really afford. When rates go up, and they most certainly will, lots of 30-somethings and younger will be in for a big shock, as will the car industry. Seems that what happened in 2008 is a distant memory.

The most popular cars in Canada all sell, on the road, for about $20k. That is exactly what most Canadians can truly afford.

Finally, the voice of reason. Thank you!
People living in a moment thinking it will last forever. And then the reality sinks in.
At $40k, it ain't no people's car.

[Solstice2006]

Again a nice piece of automotive journalistics for one really good vehicle!
But beyond the autor is the price of this people's car.

Yup, with taxes, the on the road price of this People's Car is over $40,000, far beyond the means of the staffers at Autos.ca or 90% of Canadians for that matter. I often wonder who "auto journalists" keep in touch with reality when they can drive other people's expensive machinery for free. It does seem ironic that they pan cars that they can actually afford to drive had they to plunk down their own paycheques to drive.

But then again, think of how much fuel you'll save for your $40k.

I know we don't make much at this gig, but how broke do you think we (or Canadians) are?  My last new car was $36K+ before tax.  Most of my favourite cars currently for sale are within my price range:

For me - BRZ, FR-S, Focus ST, MX-5

For her - CX-5, XV Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Elantra GT, Mazda3

No car should be more than one third of your NET annual income, period. Younger Canadians are wedded to cheap financing and this is what is causing them to drive cars that they can't really afford. When rates go up, and they most certainly will, lots of 30-somethings and younger will be in for a big shock, as will the car industry. Seems that what happened in 2008 is a distant memory.

The most popular cars in Canada all sell, on the road, for about $20k. That is exactly what most Canadians can truly afford.

While I agree that younger Canadians especially are spending too much on their cars, especially with these terms of 60, 72, 80 months, I think that only using one third of your net annual income is unrealistic.  The average GROSS income in Canada is $46,000, that makes one third, about $15,000.  Every year cars are getting more expensive, more reliable, more standard equipment, and lasting a lot longer.  So I think its only natural, that we have to spend a bit more for them. 

Not sure where the calculation of 1/3 of the average net income lies, but I think for the average family, something like $150-$175 bi-weekly for 48 months is pretty realistic.  Which is about $17,000 to $20,000.

[redman]

No car should be more than one third of your NET annual income, period. Younger Canadians are wedded to cheap financing and this is what is causing them to drive cars that they can't really afford. When rates go up, and they most certainly will, lots of 30-somethings and younger will be in for a big shock, as will the car industry. Seems that what happened in 2008 is a distant memory.

The most popular cars in Canada all sell, on the road, for about $20k. That is exactly what most Canadians can truly afford.

Finally, the voice of reason. Thank you!
People living in a moment thinking it will last forever. And then the reality sinks in.
At $40k, it ain't no people's car.

Another point that should be considered. Not only what you make but your debt ratio and lifestyle. It's a different world once the mortgage is paid off and no other major outstanding payments to deal with, even if someone makes 40K.
I recall a friend who when he made $75K he lived like he made $100K and as his wage went up so did his lifestyle. He made a lot but spent it carelessly and never really had much to show for it except a few toys and fleeting memories.

[tpl]

When I moved to Canada in early 1975 ( when there was inflation) I was told by the manager of the bank I used that 1/3 was about right, we only had one income then. On a $15000 salary I bought a new Pinto costing far less than $5000.  I could have gone up at least one size and stayed at $5000 back then.  Some years later I bought a $21000 SAAB turbo on a family income of about $57000 so that was a bit over the top but we had a cheap mortgage then. When I got my first GTI in '87 we were way back under that 33% again... and so on.
All this was before HELOCS and in the days of 36 month car loans...60,72 and 84 were reserved for mortgages then.

I bought my BMW in 2003 just after mrs tpl had taken early retirement was a bit over the 33% but of course we had enough money to pay cash had we chosen to so do and we had no mortgage.

So I think for the southern Ont cubicle warrior middle classes that 33% is still ok   especially as it is 33% of family income.

[Mike]

I think the 1/3 income thing as a hard fast rule is a bit outdated.  It is a good guideline, but to me not the only consideration.  Besides the examples listed above, I'll give one more.

My wife bought her SX4 5 years ago when working full-time and paying to go to night school.  The car was more than half her income at the time, but she still bought it in cash because she saved up for it.  She has never been in dept (minus our mortgage) a day in her life and that includes spending 9 months out of work during the recession...about a year after buying the SX4

[whaddaiknow]

So I think for the southern Ont cubicle warrior middle classes that 33% is still ok   especially as it is 33% of family income.

Fully agree with what you say. And you had no mortgae by the time Mrs TPL got her bimmer.
A younger family who, on average, still carries a huge mortgage, and probably raises a kid or two, living on $50k/year takes the $40k "people's" car right out of their range.
Even at 50k NET, that's still about $4,000/mo
$4,000 - $1,200+ mortgage (incl. property tax)
$2,800 - $1,200 per kid (very conservative including childcare, toys and baby clothing, diapers and such)
$1,600 - $400 for food (my family of 5 is more like $1,000/mo)
$1,200 - $200 clothes and entertainment (which is VERY conservative)
$1,000 - $300 (car insurance + gas)

$700/mo is all the family has left at BEST. No saving, no vacations, no dining out. Any outstanding student loans?
Spending $400/mo on a car is NOT reasonable.

And that's on a $70,000 Gross income and only ONE car that costs $24,000 on the road, including freight and taxes with 0 down and 0% financing for 5 years.

Having no mortgage, a good inheritance, a trust find, or a fat savings account, or no dependent kids changes it of course but then it wouldn't be an average "younger" Canadian family.

[whaddaiknow]

My wife bought her SX4 5 years ago when working full-time and paying to go to night school.  The car was more than half her income at the time, but she still bought it in cash because she saved up for it.  She has never been in dept (minus our mortgage) a day in her life and that includes spending 9 months out of work during the recession...about a year after buying the SX4

That's the key word here. Your wife is smart, so is mine. But stats show the majority isn't as smart. And that's sad.
According to my calculations, the $40k VW wagon isn't reasonable for an average statistical young family in Canada because they would have to put $16k down to just barely break even and still lock themselves in perpetual debt.

[Mike]

Oh, I agree

[tpl]

So I think for the southern Ont cubicle warrior middle classes that 33% is still ok   especially as it is 33% of family income.

Fully agree with what you say. And you had no mortgae by the time Mrs TPL got her bimmer.
A younger family who, on average, still carries a huge mortgage, and probably raises a kid or two, living on $50k/year takes the $40k "people's" car right out of their range.
Even at 50k NET, that's still about $4,000/mo
$4,000 - $1,200+ mortgage (incl. property tax)
$2,800 - $1,200 per kid (very conservative including childcare, toys and baby clothing, diapers and such)
$1,600 - $400 for food (my family of 5 is more like $1,000/mo)
$1,200 - $200 clothes and entertainment (which is VERY conservative)
$1,000 - $300 (car insurance + gas)

$700/mo is all the family has left at BEST. No saving, no vacations, no dining out. Any outstanding student loans?
Spending $400/mo on a car is NOT reasonable.

And that's on a $70,000 Gross income and only ONE car that costs $24,000 on the road, including freight and taxes with 0 down and 0% financing for 5 years.

Having no mortgage, a good inheritance, a trust find, or a fat savings account, or no dependent kids changes it of course but then it wouldn't be an average "younger" Canadian family.

Right.  I guess we were not normal.  We were in our 30's at the beginning of the saga.
1st No kids
2nd Lived in downtown TO  so I commuted up ( against the rush) the DVP/404. She was either working downtown or I'd take her to work on Eglinton and she'd come home by bus.
3rd Bank staff assisted mortgages
4th Only 1 car most of the time.
5th Only one ( expensive ) vacation per year, month in France...and kids would have made a tremendous difference to the cost of that.

[marcus_go]

Being a student in my 20s, I see the trouble my generation will face with increasing debt an wage disparity. A new car purchase is one of the WORST investments you can make. It doesn't really matter what car you buy, you are going to loose a lot as soon as you take ownership. It is easy to get caught up with the huge incentives that most manufacturers are offering to move product. In reality, most people are buying more than what they need and can afford.

[ecidloc]

the ea288 diesel will be coming in 2 outputs.  150hp and 184hp - at least in europe.  the new ea288 engine is suppose to address any potential "heater" issues in the winter as well.   the new a3 sedan will come with this engine first i would think, followed by the new golf next summer.   i love this wagon but isn't it long overdue for a redesign?   it must be coming soon.  i would think that the vws will get the ea288 150hp version all across the board and hopfully the 184hp 2L diesel will go to the audis.  too bad vw is the only company that brings manual diesels to NA  (Take note bmw!!!!)

Not sure what you mean with BMW, the only diesel they have on a sedan is the 335d at $52,000 (which is no longer available, because no one bought it). This forum is about a wagon.   I like BMW, but they should have brought a smaller diesel.  At least you can get a manual gas wagon from BMW, with Audi you can't. 

I would complain more about the lack of wagons available, never mind diesels and manual combos.  VW needs some competition for wagons, but they aren't going to get it, because it's such a small market share no one cares.  And it is the fault of the US.  For instance, I don't understand why we don't get the Mazda6 wagon, the same plant the makes the sedan, makes the wagon, so why not ship us some.  Even if it is small market, your going to sell some, and Mazda likes to be unique.  I still see a lot of sport hatches and wagons from the 1st generation.

Totally agree on the lack of selections in the wagon market, and Canada is even worse.  We want them to bring in more wagons like the Mercedes C class wagons, Volve V50, Passat wagons, TSX sport wagons etc.... These are beautiful vehicles why people don't like them anymore?

[Seafoam]

the ea288 diesel will be coming in 2 outputs.  150hp and 184hp - at least in europe.  the new ea288 engine is suppose to address any potential "heater" issues in the winter as well.   the new a3 sedan will come with this engine first i would think, followed by the new golf next summer.   i love this wagon but isn't it long overdue for a redesign?   it must be coming soon.  i would think that the vws will get the ea288 150hp version all across the board and hopfully the 184hp 2L diesel will go to the audis.  too bad vw is the only company that brings manual diesels to NA  (Take note bmw!!!!)

Not sure what you mean with BMW, the only diesel they have on a sedan is the 335d at $52,000 (which is no longer available, because no one bought it). This forum is about a wagon.   I like BMW, but they should have brought a smaller diesel.  At least you can get a manual gas wagon from BMW, with Audi you can't. 

I would complain more about the lack of wagons available, never mind diesels and manual combos.  VW needs some competition for wagons, but they aren't going to get it, because it's such a small market share no one cares.  And it is the fault of the US.  For instance, I don't understand why we don't get the Mazda6 wagon, the same plant the makes the sedan, makes the wagon, so why not ship us some.  Even if it is small market, your going to sell some, and Mazda likes to be unique.  I still see a lot of sport hatches and wagons from the 1st generation.

Totally agree on the lack of selections in the wagon market, and Canada is even worse.  We want them to bring in more wagons like the Mercedes C class wagons, Volve V50, Passat wagons, TSX sport wagons etc.... These are beautiful vehicles why people don't like them anymore?

It's probably not a case of disliking. Most of the cars you mention are really to damn expensive. Most Canadian's can't afford them which was kind of mentioned earlier in this thread.