Topic: Meloche Monnex - Total Loss ???

[ArticSteve]

You make a good point.  I was naively just thinking of the airbags themselves. 


If you're in the business of flogging cars this eventually all gets pointed out to ya usually in a bad way.  Rule of thumb is avoid resale cars that have had the dash air bags deploy.

When I hit the deer in the wife's Camry I had it sent down to the best auto body in town.  Just 2 brothers (owner/body men) work there.  Not 8 apprentice auto body kids right out of high school at the high volume place where Intact had directed.  After a few days of fighting over costs, Intact relented.  If my wife was handling it, they would have mowed her over and she would have ended up thanking them for their expertise and  cooperation. 

Regardless, I really slammed this deer so I said to these brothers "what's the story on the bags, why didn't they inflate".  Answer:  depends on the manufacturer.  On the Camry 07, the sensors are located on the frame rail, each side, right at the firewall.  For them to inflate, the rails must be forced back past the firewall which would be the result of a very serious impact.  Essentially so much damage that the car would be considered non repairable.   

 

[ArticSteve]

If there is something wrong with the airbag system wouldn't the warning light come on?

Light indicates a circuit issue only.  We're taking DEVIL IN THE DETAILS ....  like in real life.   

Somebody physically needs to replace the sensors which have been WRECKED on a surface that is no longer EXACTLY as it was.  This is the GREY area.  This is where the DEVIL and his DETAILS step in.  The new sensors are obviously not going back in EXACTLY as before.  Are they more sensitive, are they less sensitive, or are they the same?  This will be unknown.

Unknown enough for me not to put a child or an elderly frail person in the passenger seat in this unit.

[Noto]

I was blown away when I hear it would be north of 18k in repairs!?? Like - how? I thought for sure - a write off. Well, not to TDMM!

Sorry to hear about the accident.  I, too, am surprised that they're willing to spend $18k to fix it, but I guess they see the vehicle as salvageable.  We have the 5 year replacement value with TDMM on our 2010 Corolla, but let's be honest, the thing's only worth about $9,000 at this point and pretty much any non-fenderbender accident would write it off - I just have to make sure it happens within the next 11 months! 

I'm not surprised that yours is $18k in damage, though - airbags alone are a fortune.  Then again, I work on the lawsuit side, so I'm not really conversant with the property damage stuff.  Good luck, though!

By the way, since your name is "scuba" guy:
http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php/topic,88200.msg1005768.html#msg1005768
???

[toolatecrew]

Why wouldn't the brand new OEM air bags and all the sensors that they are required to replace when the bags go off work?

Who exactly is at the autobody when these parts and labour are applied to the repair?  Only the dudes performing the task.  $18 bucks an hour doesn't get you absolute perfection.

The front passenger airbag system is the one that would be of some concern to me being more complex via passenger weight.

Definitely a vehicle that has had it's front bags replace is not something you want on the lot.

1. Shops can and will send /sublet Airbag work to the dealer. Often the body shop does not have the proper access to reset the airbag codes etc.
2. Body shop systems will present them with a matrix supplied by the manufacturer when the airbags go off. That specifies what additional comp-components need to be replaced. Panels clock springs sensors etc.

Much of the fear of replaced airbags comes  from the past practice or cheap way out of using USED or re manufactured air bags or none at all.

If people think their insurance premiums are high now imagine what they would be like if air bag deployment means an automatic total loss and making the damaged car parts only salvage.

Its certainly anyone's choice not to buy a car that had air bags deployed but the reality is that cars are not simply disposable and deployed bags don't inherently make the car unsafe or unusable. Brand new from the factory cars have a certain % of airbag failures too.

[ArticSteve]

Auto industry can't even guarantee air bags function properly at the factory.  Think the situation improves at Sal's Auto Body when pieces cars back together     



June 11, 2014 - 6:29 am ET -- UPDATED: 6/11/14 4:04 pm ET - adds details, NHTSA probe

TOKYO/WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Japanese airbag maker Takata Corp.'s quality problems deepened today after Toyota recalled 650,000 more vehicles in Japan, and the supplier cautioned further fixes may be needed.

The latest recall brought to 7 million the total number of cars equipped with Takata airbags to be called back worldwide over the last five years.

Takata, the world's No. 2 manufacturer of auto safety equipment, said there could be more recalls from other automakers because of problems tracking potential defects with airbag inflators that date back over a decade.

The Tokyo-based auto supplier said it had discovered record-keeping errors at a plant in Mexico where potentially faulty airbag inflators were made in 2001 and 2002.

In 2013, carmakers including Toyota, Honda, Nissan and BMW recalled about 3.6 million vehicles because of flaws in Takata airbag inflators that could cause them to explode in an accident.

In an unusual step, Toyota also said it would instruct its dealers in the United States and other overseas markets to begin replacing suspect Takata inflators on all of the vehicles covered by last year's recall. Previously, the automaker had asked its dealers to inspect the airbags and only replace those that were judged to be defective.

"We have judged that it is more certain to replace everything," Toyota spokesman Naoki Sumino said.

Takata did not disclose how much it expected today’s Toyota recall would cost, but last year's recall cost the supplier $300 million

Previously, Takata told U.S. safety regulators it improperly stored chemicals and botched the manufacture of the explosive propellants used to inflate air bags. It also kept inadequate quality-control records, making it impossible to identify vehicles with potentially defective inflators.

NHTSA involved

Meanwhile, in the United States, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said today it has opened a preliminary evaluation of about 1.1 million vehicles built with Takata airbag modules from model years 2002 to 2006. Cars from Chrysler, Honda, Mazda, Nissan and Toyota are included.

The agency said it knows of six incidents, all of them in Florida and Puerto Rico, in which a frontal airbag ruptured. Three of those incidents were discovered through complaints to NHTSA, each of which described minor injuries to the driver or passenger whose airbag ruptured. The other three were disclosed by Takata and Toyota.

In an investigative document today, NHTSA suggested it suspects the “high absolute humidity climate” of Florida and Puerto Rico may have played a role in the ruptures. The agency said it is opening its investigation “to collect additional information from the supplier and vehicle manufacturers to better understand the cause and scope of the potential safety defect and ensure that all affected vehicles are recalled.”

A preliminary evaluation is NHTSA’s first step toward ordering a recall. Once that evaluation is complete, the agency either begins an engineering analysis or closes the inquiry. Based on the outcome of the engineering analysis, a vehicle may be recalled or the inquiry may be closed with no further action.

Years of problems

The supplier has been grappling with quality problems with its airbags for the last several years.

Previously, Takata told U.S. safety regulators that it improperly stored chemicals and botched the manufacture of the explosive propellants used to inflate airbags.

The company has said it kept inadequate quality control records, which made it impossible to identify vehicles with potentially defective and dangerous airbag inflators.

The Takata-related recall in 2013 was the largest airbag-related recall in history and came after a series of recalls, accidents and at least two deaths allegedly caused by faulty airbags.

Toyota said it was expanding a recall it announced in April 2013 that involved 2.14 million vehicles manufactured between 2000 and 2004. The serial numbers Takata provided for potentially flawed inflators had been incomplete, Toyota said.

Toyota's expanded recall comes as rival General Motors faces scrutiny over why it took more than a decade to come to terms with ignition switch problems that resulted in at least 13 deaths.

Others investigate

Honda, Nissan and Mazda also said they were investigating whether they needed to recall more vehicles due to problems tracking faulty Takata parts. BMW said it was not aware of any impact on its vehicles. Chrysler said its engineers were analyzing the issue and that the automaker is cooperating with NHTSA's probe.

In January, Takata began investigating whether there were other vehicles with potentially faulty inflators not covered by the previous recalls after being contacted by Toyota, company spokesman Toyohiro Hishikawa said.

Toyota spokesman Ryo Sakai said the automaker had been notified of one case in which a defective front passenger-side airbag inflator caused a seat cover to burn and two cases where the inflator ruptured when the airbag deployed.

Toyota vehicles covered by the recall include the Corolla and Camry sedans, and Tundra trucks.

The inflators under investigation were manufactured between September 2001 and September 2002 at Takata’s Mexico plant, Takata said. Some of the explosive wafers used in the airbag inflator may have been exposed to excessive moisture or pressed into shape with too little force, it said.

That could cause the inflator to explode when the airbag is deployed, potentially sending bits of shrapnel into the vehicle, the previous investigation found.

It was not immediately clear how many Takata airbag inflators could have defects. Takata has notified other automakers besides Toyota about the issue, Hishikawa said. He declined to name those companies.

Takata will be supplying the inflators that will be used as replacements in the Toyota recall, Hishikawa said.

The Takata problems may benefit rivals like Sweden's Autoliv, where executives have noticed an increased focus on quality among clients since its Japanese competitor's first airbag recall last year.

Separately, the company pleaded guilty on Dec. 5, 2013, for its involvement in a conspiracy to fix the price of seat belts in the United States and was sentenced to a criminal fine of $71.3 million. Five of its former executives have been charged in the scandal.

Takata ranks No. 44 on the Automotive News list of the top 100 global suppliers with worldwide original-equipment automotive parts sales of $4.86 billion during its 2012 fiscal year.

Gabe Nelson and Automotive News staff contributed to this report.

[300C]

Just fought with TDMM and got them to write off my car.
A 2010 300C.
They valued it at $15000 with no market assessment.
Damage they estimated at $7 - 8000.
I had already been to the towing yard and taken all my personal stuff from the car.
In convesation the adjuster said the car was fully inspected to make sure it could be fixed safely.
I went back to the towing yard to get some pictures. Well my car was still sitting in the same place as before. I  asked the guy that took me onto the yard if it had been moved. He said no. He said the inspector came took a bunch of pictures wrote some stuff and left.
Now I am a mechanic I am not stupid. The front suspension was hit and the wheel leand in at the top. You can't say it was fully inspected if it wasn't put.up.on a hoist. Walking around taking pictures is not a full inspection.
I flat out told them I don't want it fixed. The car would be worthless, I couldn't sell it, I couldn't use it as a trade in, my Wife and Son wouldn't drive it as they said they wouldn't feel safe after that much damage.
Took about 2 weeks and The last time I  talked to someone I said "I don't care how long it takes they are paying for the storage.
Got the answer the next day they will write it off. I  think they were waiting for me to cave in. My saying I don't care how long it takes made them move. LOL

[bugmenot]