Author Topic: Upside Down Major  (Read 797752 times)

Online dkaz

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2140 on: December 12, 2017, 11:40:32 am »
I warned one person away from this bad deal. She wants AWD and I told her Kelowna Toyota had a brand new Sienna LE AWD for a few thousand more than what this bozo is asking for his Sedona LX+.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2141 on: December 12, 2017, 11:47:56 am »
I belong to a bunch of FB pages for buying/selling outdoor equipment, mostly backcountry ski and climbing gear.  Price your gear stupidly and you will get savagely berated for being a moron and not doing your homework.  Unless you're an attractive woman.

Offline nifty6

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2142 on: December 12, 2017, 01:56:51 pm »
Was watching Auto Shoppe Sunday on CP24 and they had a director from OMVIC who stated that :Banks offer dealers incentives to push extended-term loans: A dealer will try to get you into a 96 month term. Your crazy to not go for the 0% loan. Don't pay cash use free money and your really crazy to use a line of credit. Still up to the consumer to do their homework. The dealers are not there to help you.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2143 on: December 12, 2017, 02:20:10 pm »
It's hard to argue with the logic of taking a 96 month 0% loan.  There's no interest charge!  You are free to pay out the loan early too.

The problem is that even with a zero interest loan, you're upside down for a long time.  You're making payments well past the warranty period.

If you're very certain that you will keep the car, and you are choosing a very reliable model, then maybe long financing works, but there's still a good chance you'll regret it.

A friend of mine was buying a new car.  They had 84 month zero percent financing.  He was planning on a 48 month loan.  So, he took the long financing, opened up a bank account to service the loan, and deposited the payment that he would have been making on a 48 month term.  He's actually right at that 48 month mark now, and has exactly enough in the account to pay out the loan.  I asked him why he did it this way.  He explained that "my income is kinda up and down, so I liked that I could go down to the much smaller payment for a few months if I had to, or even not make any deposits for a month or two if I'd made some and built up a surplus.  A savings plan, kind of, but turns out I didn't need it, now I can just pay the car out."

Not what I'd have done, but worked for him.  The important part is that he bought a car he could afford over four years, not seven, or eight, etc.

Offline dougjp

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2144 on: December 12, 2017, 02:23:58 pm »
It's hard to argue with the logic of taking a 96 month 0% loan.  There's no interest charge!  You are free to pay out the loan early too.

The problem is that even with a zero interest loan, you're upside down for a long time.  You're making payments well past the warranty period.

If you're very certain that you will keep the car, and you are choosing a very reliable model, then maybe long financing works, but there's still a good chance you'll regret it.

A friend of mine was buying a new car.  They had 84 month zero percent financing.  He was planning on a 48 month loan.  So, he took the long financing, opened up a bank account to service the loan, and deposited the payment that he would have been making on a 48 month term.  He's actually right at that 48 month mark now, and has exactly enough in the account to pay out the loan.  I asked him why he did it this way.  He explained that "my income is kinda up and down, so I liked that I could go down to the much smaller payment for a few months if I had to, or even not make any deposits for a month or two if I'd made some and built up a surplus.  A savings plan, kind of, but turns out I didn't need it, now I can just pay the car out."

Not what I'd have done, but worked for him.  The important part is that he bought a car he could afford over four years, not seven, or eight, etc.

Smart friend, if he was making money on the money, at least enough to offset any fees for things like registering a lien and payout.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2145 on: December 12, 2017, 02:47:38 pm »
true enough that the dealer isn't there just to help, but that isn't to say that they can't help.

you need to finance anyway and 0% is available with no option of a "cash" discount? take the 0%, you would be silly not to. hell, even if you have the cash, it might even make more sense in that case to take 0% and finance the amount to keep your cash invested.

you generally are silly to use a line of credit for an entire car. the only people i have ever sold to who did that were financially goofy and never paid more than the minimum (interest only)... therefore never bringing down the loan. if it's just a case of needing an extra 10k on top of your saved up cash... go for it. but that isn't usually the case.

maybe we're different, but we don't have any bonus on going for a longer term. we get a certain rate, then depending on the year, a maximum term. we don't stretch the term to make more money on this part of the transaction... we do it because that 1500 dollar warranty on an 8 year bi weekly payment only bumps what you pay by 9.60... so less than 10 bucks a payment and you are covered sir!! well... that isn't *why* we do it... we do it because the customer wants a lower payment... no matter what we tell them.

i just had a guy contact me on great deal on a ram... showed him a 6 year term... "well, i was hoping more in the 200 bi-weekly taxes in and nothing down"... well, we would have to go longer... "that's fine, how long can you go?"

there is the conversations i have... and i have to answer those questions. i do so truthfully, but i do have to bite my tongue occasionally. while i want to guide the customer to something that benefits them, i won't turn away a deal just because they are financially incompetent. i usually do my best to steer them towards money down, shorter terms, etc... but in the end, i won't say no if they insist on a goofy deal (and the bank approves it).
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2146 on: December 12, 2017, 10:12:58 pm »
The introduction of bi-weekly payments marked the descent into consumer idiocy.

Offline OliverD

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2147 on: December 12, 2017, 10:16:25 pm »
And then there's Honda, who advertises weekly payments but doesn't actually allow you to make weekly payments.  ::)

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2148 on: December 12, 2017, 10:58:03 pm »
When I was in banking back when dinosaurs walked the earth, there was no weekly or bi-weekly anything in terms of payments.  Some people were paid bi weekly, some monthly (teachers in Alberta are some of the only people I know still paid monthly) but regardless of how you were paid, the idea was that you could manage your money well enough to have monthly payments even if you were paid bi-weekly.

Then banks looked at bi-weekly payments not only to match payments to pay cycles, but to save people a little interest, at least that was the story.

Then captive auto financing saw a way to advertise lower payments.  And we got weekly payments.  FML.

I wonder when daily payments are coming?

Offline rrocket

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2149 on: December 12, 2017, 11:03:38 pm »


I wonder when daily payments are coming?

I'd be down with daily payments if it was "pay per use"!!

Like if your phone bill is X, but you happen to use less, it gets pro-rated for daily use.
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Offline BWII

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2150 on: December 12, 2017, 11:38:43 pm »
Geez...every time I read this thread all I can think of is how badly I've effed up...I should still be driving my 2008 F150...that 2000 Taurus wasn't that bad...nothing another $4000 in repairs couldn't have fixed...maybe I didn't even need a truck.  We've put so little on this one in 4 yrs...you gotta wonder.  But then what would I tow the camper ( :-X don't get me started...) with...or do fall clean up. Could've gotten a beater truck for that, and rented one for camping season...or just not got a camper at all...
 
My house is worthless...I've put so much into it I doubt we'll ever get it out, and it was cheap when we bought it. 

It would be easy to feel sick thinking about how upside down I really must be.  I don't even like looking at the annual reports on Fuelly...fack I spend/I've spent a lot on gas.  Maybe I should go buy a Volt...

Offline johngenx

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2151 on: December 12, 2017, 11:50:49 pm »
Or just go with it...


Online dkaz

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2152 on: December 13, 2017, 09:07:14 am »
I don't get biweekly payments. I like having three paycheque months twice a year and biweekly payments would ruin that.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2153 on: December 13, 2017, 09:52:14 am »
if you get paid bi-weekly and aren't great at saving cash, bi-weekly is good as you will likely have that money in the bank if you set it up for the day after pay...

other than that, there is no real reason for it. especially with lower interest rates.

it's funny... i sell a car for 145 bi-weekly and i hear them chatting about it "being under 300/month"... i do a credit app and for their mortgage, they say its 1400 a month (just after hearing them discuss how it is 725 bi weekly).... but when i ask income? "oh, 3000 a month", even though i have their paystub and can see that it is 1300 bi-weekly...

we round some things up... we round some things down... we "forget" math in our favour sometimes, sometimes against us...

in the end, it is always to trick us into thinking we have more money than we do and that we can afford what we want. consumerism is alive and well, even if our bank accounts disagree.

Offline Gurgie

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2154 on: December 13, 2017, 10:01:28 am »
Biweekly does work out to more payments per year though & can shorten the loan length... if done properly that is... and $400 biweekly sounds nicer than $866.66666666666667/month  :rofl:

At my new gig I'm getting paid bi-weekly (last 4 months) and it's weird for me, because I was getting paid once a month for the last 4.5yrs... so now it feels like I have more money (besides the increase in pay)  :rofl:
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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2155 on: December 13, 2017, 10:40:56 am »
What is a pay check ???

I have not seen a weekly pay check since 1990  ;D

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2156 on: December 13, 2017, 10:59:47 am »
A local dealership was advertising daily payments for a while. Something like $12 per day for a new Focus, "for less than the cost of lunch and two coffees a day you can get into a new car!"


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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2157 on: December 13, 2017, 11:35:42 am »
A local dealership was advertising daily payments for a while. Something like $12 per day for a new Focus, "for less than the cost of lunch and two coffees a day you can get into a new car!"

Whatever trigger peoples mind I guess.  If they walk in saying; Y'a i saw the 12$ a day add and  descided to come take a look.  They know they caught a decent 🐟

I've seen $XX/day advertising here and there.

Offline Barton

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2158 on: December 13, 2017, 11:40:18 am »
Even though wages are high in Alberta, I imagine a lot of upside people hail from these parts.  Cord had so many tales of upside down customers from right in the middle of the oil boom.  And I bet Calgary is worse.

In Alberta, image is everything and new is best.  Always.  Have to live an hour's drive from work to have a new house?  That's okay, as long as you're not living in some old house, even one that's been redone, nope, new is better.  Forget build quality, granite counters and stainless appliances are the real signs of quality.  If every house on the street looks the same, that's fine as long as you live in something new.

Same for your car.  Well, not car.  SUV or pick up.  Not driving a $50K+ SUV or pick up?  You better get with it.

A contractor friend of mine was telling me how most of his renovation clients are maxing the equity in the homes to do renovations and these are people in their late 50s - not a dime of equity that close to retirement?  Holy hell.  But their house is slightly out of date, so it needs $50K+ in renos.

The problem in Alberta is that when it booms, everyone says "this is the one, the one that's never ending."  Combine that attitude with the obsession with all things new, and I can't imagine the situation a lot of people are in.

Having owned older cars in the past, I can see the value of having a reliable new vehicle even one that comes with a monthly payment.

But are you implying that people are leaving their older homes closer to work and going into a new home albeit one that is an hour's drive away? 

A cursory glance at the Edmonton realtor's page suggests that the older homes closer to the inner core costs ~$50K MORE than the newer homes that are much farther out.  Don't discount the $50K as that's a lot of money for many folks.  Are you also suggesting that these older homes are sitting empty?  Isn't the population for Edmonton growing?  Wouldn't that suggest that people have to buy homes that are farther from the downtown core, not because it's new but that's what they can afford?


Online dkaz

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Re: Upside Down Major
« Reply #2159 on: December 13, 2017, 01:52:56 pm »
A local dealership was advertising daily payments for a while. Something like $12 per day for a new Focus, "for less than the cost of lunch and two coffees a day you can get into a new car!"

It baffles me that someone would decide to skip lunch for seven years and buy a car.

Actually, it baffles me even more that someone would spend $10 a day everyday for lunch. Spend an extra $2 to make that extra serving of dinner to bring to work the next day. Or when they offer lease rates of $6 a day or a latte everyday.