Topic: Comparison Test: Mid-size Crossover SUVs

[mixmanmash]

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

While AWD may not always be necessary it is certainly nice to have in many situations. I drove an older E430 4matic through a snowstorm the other day and it was amazing what a beast that car was. The combination of AWD + good winter tires is unbeatable.

Nice to have is one thing.  I have gone through snowstorms with 4 foot snow drifts in my FWD Protege and never got stuck once.  Of course it is equipped with good winter tires.

Good winter tires + driver skill > AWD.

[mixmanmash]

Jim Kenzie refers to SUVs as "stupid, useless vehicles" and I'd have to say that what ever the job is, it can be done better by more efficient vehicles.

So what can you offer me with AWD and three rows of seats that will comfortably fit 5'8" teenagers in the third row, with room for a dog and some hockey equipment?

Since you're convinced there's better choices, I'd like to hear them.

Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

Only if I want to be able to get up the driveway 4 months of the year.

That's why my wife ditched her corolla and got a forester. 




Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

And that Corolla was equipped with good winter tires?

[Snowman]

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

While AWD may not always be necessary it is certainly nice to have in many situations. I drove an older E430 4matic through a snowstorm the other day and it was amazing what a beast that car was. The combination of AWD + good winter tires is unbeatable.

Nice to have is one thing.  I have gone through snowstorms with 4 foot snow drifts in my FWD Protege and never got stuck once.  Of course it is equipped with good winter tires.

Good winter tires + driver skill > AWD.

Unless the AWD vehicle has winter tires and a good driver.

[tortoise]

Yeah,  I never understood the "My car with winters is better than a AWD car with All seasons" argument.

Also, a good driver and winters wouldn't get your FWD up the cottage driveway.  It sucks parking at the top and hauling your 2 + 4 year olds up and down (along with all their gear).

If I was in this market I'd get the AWD Flex, non-ecoboost.  Not nearly as dear of a price premium and would do everything I wanted.  I have always liked the way the look.

[tenpenny]

Jim Kenzie refers to SUVs as "stupid, useless vehicles" and I'd have to say that what ever the job is, it can be done better by more efficient vehicles.

So what can you offer me with AWD and three rows of seats that will comfortably fit 5'8" teenagers in the third row, with room for a dog and some hockey equipment?

Since you're convinced there's better choices, I'd like to hear them.

Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

Only if I want to be able to get up the driveway 4 months of the year.

That's why my wife ditched her corolla and got a forester. 




Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

And that Corolla was equipped with good winter tires?

Always, every car we've ever had ran winters in season.. 

Feel free to stop judging me, just accept that you're too judge mental for polite society.


Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

[redman]

Many of these players are older vehicles in need of an update. I think it will be a different game with the introduction of the new Toy Highlander and Sub Outback arriving soon.
For me it all comes down to, do I want a used vehicle (good article) or do I want a new vehicle if the latter then wait i.m.o. for early 2014

[JohnM]

"So, you feel the same way about high horsepower sportscars? Being superfluous and such?"

Although my heart definitely goes out to sports cars of any kind, the way most sports cars are used is in-town, in traffic.  So 250hp and .90 g ability is absolutely useless.

I'm just in favour of using the best tool for the job and scrapping the poser and wretched excess we seem to be so susceptible to.

Cheers,
John M.

[tooscoops]

tenpenny?.. polite society?  come on now!? who are we kidding... no one is polite here.

good review guys. sure we may not feel all of these are necessary, but they are leaps and bounds ahead of the real suvs from the 90's in practicality for the type of people who are actually buying them.

oh and i have to include this pic...


that's in my showroom now... just letting you know what you can buy a '13 one of those journeys for... the rallye package is not a realistic option... this is an R/T with nav, dvd, heated steering wheel, etc. no one buys those rallyes. that price in the pic reads 31946... so at that point, i think even it's shortcomings can be overlooked!

oh and the citadel durango.. same thing... why send a top end vehicle when the price will make it a non-starter? whoever works for chrysler doing the press vehicles really needs to pull their head out of... the sand.... trying this new polite thing.

[SaskSpecV]

Another great comparison autos.ca peeps.   And I really appreciate the chart at the end - it makes comparing the participants' specs so much easier!  One request - can you add the observed fuel economy to the chart (or mention it for all the vehicles in the article)?  The EPA mileage is good to know, but I'd like to see how the vehicles fared in your collective hands.  It was mentioned that the Acadia was pretty thirsty at 14.2 L/100 km (real-world), yet it's EPA rating was quite good.  But did the other vehicles come closer to meeting their EPA numbers?

It's too bad the Durango couldn't make it - maybe the 3.6L + 8-speed tranny would be a lot nicer than the 6-speed in the Journey?  While I like the more manageable size of the Journey, it really can't complete with the other big-azz CUVs in this compare - but the Durango certainly could. And 6200 lb towing capacity is fantastic for a V6-equipped unibody CUV.

One more benefit of the autos.ca reviews - the "value" weighting really penalizes the MNFRs that continue to use the "bloated MSRP / big discount" strategy (cough, GM/Dodge/Ford, cough).  Maybe these comparisons are the kick in the pants that certain MNFRs need to start using real-world pricing? 

[mixmanmash]

Jim Kenzie refers to SUVs as "stupid, useless vehicles" and I'd have to say that what ever the job is, it can be done better by more efficient vehicles.

So what can you offer me with AWD and three rows of seats that will comfortably fit 5'8" teenagers in the third row, with room for a dog and some hockey equipment?

Since you're convinced there's better choices, I'd like to hear them.

Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

Only if I want to be able to get up the driveway 4 months of the year.

That's why my wife ditched her corolla and got a forester. 




Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

And that Corolla was equipped with good winter tires?

Always, every car we've ever had ran winters in season.. 

Feel free to stop judging me, just accept that you're too judge mental for polite society.


Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

Ok.  Yes, I was being biased because many people in a city that is relatively flat and reasonably cleaned roads feel they need AWD.  However, you haven't described the conditions that you are driving in, nor have you declared your location in your profile.  I can understand why some people would need AWD.  Take for instance my in-laws who live in Pittsburgh.  They get the heavy wet slippery snow that is common in Eastern Canada where as in Alberta we tend to get the powdery stuff.  Their driveway is a pretty steep incline to get out onto the main road (i.e. garage is at the back, basement level).  I can understand their need for AWD.  However, here in Edmonton, I don't think it's really that needed, 99.9% of the time.

No need to be a dick.  I certainly wasn't trying to be.  I was asking questions to determine what conditions and equipment you had.  And speaking of being judgmental - how is your last statement not? 

[mixmanmash]

Toyota Sienna.  But really, do you need AWD?

While AWD may not always be necessary it is certainly nice to have in many situations. I drove an older E430 4matic through a snowstorm the other day and it was amazing what a beast that car was. The combination of AWD + good winter tires is unbeatable.

Nice to have is one thing.  I have gone through snowstorms with 4 foot snow drifts in my FWD Protege and never got stuck once.  Of course it is equipped with good winter tires.

Good winter tires + driver skill > AWD.

Unless the AWD vehicle has winter tires and a good driver.

That's certainly a given.  Especially the good driver part.  Last winter I saw a guy in a STi equipped with winter tires trying to be an All-Star on the road, lose it and go right over the curb onto the grass where the snow was 2 feet deep.  He was not getting out of that mess.  I'm sure he did some damage to that car by going over the curb as hard as he did.

[evil_twin]

Nice comparison, but I'm little confused by the rationale behind the final verdict:

" ...a quick poll of everyone’s favourite machine was nearly unanimous: the homegrown/built Ecoboost-powered Ford Flex as the dominant choice, and not just because it’s built down the road in Oakville. But those raised hands quickly came down when asked if the Ford would win this comparo, taking price into consideration. For that, the Hyundai Santa Fe XL seemed the consensus winner..."

The Flex is $500 more then the Hyundai in Base Price and $1,200 more in As Tested.   Doesn't seem like enough of a difference in >$40k rig to matter???  I gotta believe the testers would spent the extra ~2.7% to get the ride they unanimously loved??

[Sir Osis of Liver]

This is the best review yet! You guys have really pulled up your socks lately. I really liked the tables at the end. Well done.

If I needed a vehicle this size, I'd do what I could to get a Flex. I've had them as rentals a few times and they do so much right. Lots of space, nice, quiet interiors, handle better than a vehicle this size has any right to, and with the Ecoboost, they go like a scalded cat.

If someone liked the performance, but not the styling, there's the Explorer Sport, which also gets the Ecoboost. I've seen more of them around than I've seen Flexs.

[Oldsguy]

Hyundai must have thrown a helluva Christmas party for you guys, and given you each nice little gift-wrapped boxes of unmarked bills.

My coworker's Santa Fe remains in the dealer's service department for the 5th consecutive week awaiting parts that may or may not make the engine run properly again.

The Flex is a great vehicle if you can get past the looks. Personally, I like the styling.

[BradT]

I tried to like the CX-9.  I had an extended test drive and thought it seemed underpowered.  My big issue was there wasn't a tether in the third row for a convertible car seat that I could find.  With a bench seat in the second row and two car seats, it makes the third row all but unusable if you need to take anyone else with you.  If I could talk my wife into looking at Hyundai, I think the Santa Fe would be the winner, but alas she won't even consider one.

[Northernridge]

I think of mid-sized CUVs in two categories: 5 and 7 passenger. The additional seating row, length of vehicle, etc, changes the CUV quite a bit IMO. I haven't driven all of these examples but of the ones that I have, I'd take the Flex as my 3-row CUV and the Santa Fe as my 2-row.

I have seen quite a few new Pathfinders now and despite the good showing in this comparison I find them easily the most homely design in the segment. They are very unattractive and look more like a minivan than a CUV.

Pathfinders are the new stretchy grey sweat pants of the automotive world – sure its works fine but man, you've let yourself go.

[JacobBlack]

Hyundai must have thrown a helluva Christmas party for you guys, and given you each nice little gift-wrapped boxes of unmarked bills.

If they did, I'd use that money to buy you a hug.

[mixmanmash]

Hyundai must have thrown a helluva Christmas party for you guys, and given you each nice little gift-wrapped boxes of unmarked bills.

If they did, I'd use that money to buy you a hug.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Hyundai must have thrown a helluva Christmas party for you guys, and given you each nice little gift-wrapped boxes of unmarked bills.

If they did, I'd use that money to buy you a hug.

 

[greengs]

I'm not sure I can absorb a test of "mid-sized" SUVs where the weights range from 4000lbs to 5000lbs with the horsepower between 260 and 350.

Either an Audyssey van or a Jetta Wagon would surely offer the required hauling capability. 

Jim Kenzie refers to SUVs as "stupid, useless vehicles" and I'd have to say that what ever the job is, it can be done better by more efficient vehicles.

Probably the excellent review the Autos team has become known for but the whole category is superfluous.

Cheers,
John M.

I wouldn't say SUVs are useless but certainly if you have 3 or more small kids (we do) none of these SUVs worked anywhere near as well as the minivan does.  The space behind the 3rd row was very poor in all the SUVS we looked at.  The odyssey has a huge trunk even with all the seats up.  So we bought a minivan.  I'd love a big manly SUV like an SRT8 but this makes life easier and I could care less about what the masses may think as in a decade or two the SUVs will be the embarassing vehicles on the road when something else becomes stylish.