Topic: New All Season Tires

[tortoise]

I'm surprised you didn't like the wet performance of the Premiers.

They get good wet reviews on TireRack - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Premier+A%2FS

Michelin Premier A/S (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)
What We Liked: Excellent wet and good winter weather grip
What We'd Improve: A small increase in ultimate dry traction
Conclusion: A very good blend of comfort and traction

[EV Dan]

Lasting "forever" is less relevant in lifespan of tires. If you can get 5 years out of the Michelins, which should be easy, then at most he'd be buying one extra set of tires over the lifespan of the car.  Not particularly a pricey investment for better driving and braking performance.

For me, I value hydroplane resistance over longevity.

No way you're getting 5 years from the Michelins.

Have owned them...they wear quick.

"lasting forever" is a big plus IMO. Often it makes a difference between having to buy a set of new rubber in order to sell the car... or not. $500-$1000 is not exactly peanuts.
Ron: you can smoke a set of tires in less than a track day, or in half a day of drving a Supra   Seriously though, wheel alignment and tire pressure can make a big difference in wear.

[rrocket]

What was the mileage and on what car?

Are we talking the same tire?

The Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 is an ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE TIRE. They are not made for tremendous tread life regardless of what Michelin says.

Among nearly 450 consumer ratings, the treadwear rating is the worst metric (apart from snow traction, but it's not made for that)...6.5 out of ten.

Trust me...I've owned these tires. This is not your typical all season tire....they lap a track nearly identical to a full on summer performance tire...and that's because of the relatively soft compound.

He needs a standard "touring" tire...or possibly a "grand touring" tire.

FFS..

[EV Dan]

Are we talking the same tire?

I think I derailed the thread with the LRR Michelins 

(which are exactly the ones OP should get for the Rio)

[Noto]

I'm surprised you didn't like the wet performance of the Premiers.

They get good wet reviews on TireRack - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Premier+A%2FS

Michelin Premier A/S (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)
What We Liked: Excellent wet and good winter weather grip
What We'd Improve: A small increase in ultimate dry traction
Conclusion: A very good blend of comfort and traction

And yet, I disagree with both points above - it all depends on which car they're being tested on.  They made the Corolla handle very well, but I didn't compare them side-by-side with others (other than the Firestones the car came with).  FWIW, I find the Bridgestone Turanzas that came on the Mazda3, despite being 7 years old (now 8, but they're in the garage), handle puddles better than the Premiers did.

Puddles are my benchmark for hydroplane resistance since they're by their very virtue where same is most important.  How a tire "handles" in the wet is less important to me than its ability to not go into 4-wheel-no-traction, like my WS80s did on the 401 this winter.

[rrocket]

Are we talking the same tire?

I think I derailed the thread with the LRR Michelins 

(which are exactly the ones OP should get for the Rio)

Oh, OK.

But many tires now classify as LRR.

[tortoise]

How a tire "handles" in the wet is less important to me than its ability to not go into 4-wheel-no-traction, like my WS80s did on the 401 this winter.

Interesting.  I would reverse that because it's so rare that I go blasting through large puddles yet I often drive on wet roads.

I'd be curious if there are any tires on the market that would do well in the puddles you hit.

[Noto]

It's not that I intentionally go "blasting" through large puddles, but in areas of construction (i.e. the 401 perpetually between Toronto and Guelph) there is generally very poor drainage.  Same goes for springtime conditions where sewer grates are blocked by debris and water levels are heightened by melting snow.

The Premiers were fine, quite laudable actually...but their claim to fame is the ability to maintain water evacuation performance throughout the life of the tire.  If that's true, then hydroplane resistance through the life of the tire is sub-par (though at 5/32" it would most certainly perform better than most at the same tread depth).

I'd be curious if there are any tires on the market that would do well in the puddles you hit.

...yes, Nitto's tires blast through all such puddles with aplomb.  The 421Q is the best I've seen, though only available for larger CUV/SUV tires (the RX400h has them, they're unavailable for our generation of Fozzie).  The Motivos (which are on the Fozzie) also do extraordinarily well in such circumstances (and hence why they're on wifey's car - I do what I can to protect her).

Don't take my comments regarding the Premiers to be a "DO NOT BUY" - to the contrary, they're quite good, but they went from "wowing" me to "I'd like to see better hydroplane resistance".

KalTire agrees with me, FWIW:

[Seafoam]

How a tire "handles" in the wet is less important to me than its ability to not go into 4-wheel-no-traction, like my WS80s did on the 401 this winter.

Interesting.  I would reverse that because it's so rare that I go blasting through large puddles yet I often drive on wet roads.

I'd be curious if there are any tires on the market that would do well in the puddles you hit.

I've had the Premiers on my civic for a couple years . Have not experienced any hydroplaning issues.

[EV Dan]

How a tire "handles" in the wet is less important to me than its ability to not go into 4-wheel-no-traction, like my WS80s did on the 401 this winter.

Interesting.  I would reverse that because it's so rare that I go blasting through large puddles yet I often drive on wet roads.

I'd be curious if there are any tires on the market that would do well in the puddles you hit.

I've had the Premiers on my civic for a couple years . Have not experienced any hydroplaning issues.

In H-rated category of all season tires CR gives Premier AS a "good" hydroplaning score, while the only tire that is "excellent" in this test is Nokian Entyre 2.0 which is in the middle down the list with only 35,000 mile tread life. The Premier is 85,000 miles which is actually the longest life there.

Besides Premier the only other Recommended tire is Pirelli Cinturato P7, with even lower rolling resistance but Average in wet braking. 70,000 mile life.
p.s. my CR is from Nov 2017.

[rrocket]

How a tire "handles" in the wet is less important to me than its ability to not go into 4-wheel-no-traction, like my WS80s did on the 401 this winter.

Interesting.  I would reverse that because it's so rare that I go blasting through large puddles yet I often drive on wet roads.

I'd be curious if there are any tires on the market that would do well in the puddles you hit.

I've had the Premiers on my civic for a couple years . Have not experienced any hydroplaning issues.

In H-rated category of all season tires CR gives Premier AS a "good" hydroplaning score, while the only tire that is "excellent" in this test is Nokian Entyre 2.0 which is in the middle down the list with only 35,000 mile tread life. The Premier is 85,000 miles which is actually the longest life there.

Besides Premier the only other Recommended tire is Pirelli Cinturato P7, with even lower rolling resistance but Average in wet braking. 70,000 mile life.
p.s. my CR is from Nov 2017.

I have the P7 Plus. 

[dirtyjeffer]

i think it will likely come down to the Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ tires from Costco or the General Tire Altimax RT43 tires from Tirecraft.

for the 205/45/17 size, here are the all in prices:

RT43s from Tirecraft: $729.88
AS 3+ from Costco: $713.16

i'm really not sure which way to go, but i'm leaning towards the RT43s just for the sake of comfort and possibly longer life?

keeping in mind, i have a Rio5 and not a BMW M3 (or a minivan  ), which way would you guys go?

just to correct something here...the Tirecraft quote included taxes and the Costco one didn't...so, the revised numbers are:

RT43s from Tirecraft: $729.88 (minus any potential rebates that may be available at time of purchase)
AS 3+ from Costco: $805.87 (minus any potential rebates that may be available at time of purchase)

i think there may be a $40 mail in rebate on the RT43s, and usually every few months the Michelin's have a $70 off deal, but let's leave that out for the time being.

since i know see that the RT43s are a bit less money (not that money is the driving force here), as well as reading some comments here, i think the RT43s might be a better fit for what i want in a tire...i plan on keeping my car for another 4-5 years anyway, so i'd rather not have to replace the tires in 3-4 years if possible.

[dirtyjeffer]

What was the mileage and on what car?

Are we talking the same tire?

The Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 is an ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE TIRE. They are not made for tremendous tread life regardless of what Michelin says.

Among nearly 450 consumer ratings, the treadwear rating is the worst metric (apart from snow traction, but it's not made for that)...6.5 out of ten.

Trust me...I've owned these tires. This is not your typical all season tire....they lap a track nearly identical to a full on summer performance tire...and that's because of the relatively soft compound.

He needs a standard "touring" tire...or possibly a "grand touring" tire.

FFS..

when i look at how Tirecraft rates the tires, the RT43 is listed as a "touring tire" and the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is listed as a "performance all season".

the more i think about it, the more i agree with you (and appreciate your feedback)...i'm not tracking my car, nor do i own a "performance" car, so i'm thinking the RT43s are likely more what i am wanting in a tire.

[dirtyjeffer]

ah crap...and then i go and read this:

Touring tires (RT43):
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ST

Ultra High Performance All Season:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS

in short, here's the breakdown between the two:

Make:  WET / DRY / COMFORT / TREADWEAR

RT43   8.6 / 8.7 / 8.6 / 8.3
AS3+  9.3 / 9.4 / 8.8 / 8.6

judging from those numbers, it almost seems like it might be worth spending the extra bit of money on the Michelins.   

[Ex-airbalancer]

Get these
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Vredestein&tireModel=Quatrac+5
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS&

[dirtyjeffer]

Get these
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Vredestein&tireModel=Quatrac+5
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS&

if you can figure out their website, i'd love to take a look at them.

https://www.vredestein.ca/en-ca/car-suv-van/tyre-finder/

despite scoring well above (i did see them already), the reviewers didn't give them as much praise as their scores indicate...also, the mileage in the reviews is much lower than the more established brands.

[EV-Light]

Bear in mind that reviews - the kind that can be posted by humans - can be easily manipulated by companies...hire 100 Chinese @ $1/month and pump up the reviews.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EV Dan]

Yep. I thought the score was somehow "sponsored". If tirerack can get decent enough tires for half the cost of established brands then ultimately they would be very interested in promoting them. I once worked in retail and we were told to recommend a store specific brand because they were making triple the margin on that stuff. So, who knows....

[rrocket]

ah crap...and then i go and read this:

Touring tires (RT43):
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ST

Ultra High Performance All Season:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS

in short, here's the breakdown between the two:

Make:  WET / DRY / COMFORT / TREADWEAR

RT43   8.6 / 8.7 / 8.6 / 8.3
AS3+  9.3 / 9.4 / 8.8 / 8.6

judging from those numbers, it almost seems like it might be worth spending the extra bit of money on the Michelins.   

You're reading the numbers wrong.  I know.  I asked Tirerack.  The numbers themselves are how they stack up against those in the same category....not across different categories.

The numbers are only meaningful within their own category.  For example, a Pirelli snow tire has nearly the same rating in the dry as the AS3!! (9.2).  Laughable.  Or the BF Goodrich off road tire has nearly the same dry grip as the AS3! (9.1)  Impossible.  But that's not how these numbers work.  They only work when compared to like category tires.

[tortoise]

And they're still good numbers. Stop second guessing, you'll drive yourself nuts*.

*I know this because I do it every time I buy tires.