Topic: Some People ...

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Hasn't the tranny always been the weak spot on the GC?

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The new six speed they use is much, much better than the transmissions of old.

[dirtyjeffer]

Hasn't the tranny always been the weak spot on the GC?

some of the older ones, but quite often, it may have more to do with the van being loaded up a lot and no transmission cooler...i think the factory tow package gives a transmission cooler, but a lot people simply add the hitch at a later date.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Hasn't the tranny always been the weak spot on the GC?

some of the older ones, but quite often, it may have more to do with the van being loaded up a lot and no transmission cooler...i think the factory tow package gives a transmission cooler, but a lot people simply add the hitch at a later date.

Actually, on 2011+, the factory tow package does not beef up the transmission cooler, as it already comes with one right from the factory.  The only tangible thing that the factory tow package gives you (that can't be added later such as hitch and wiring) is the Nivomat self-levelling springs.  Mine came with a dealer installed Mopar hitch and wiring harness, and all I had to do to make it a worthy tow vehicle was beef up the rear suspension with airbags. 

[CSH]

So a you are saying a 2012+ GC will be much lower $ than Sienna/Ody and as reliable?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

So a you are saying a 2012+ GC will be much lower $ than Sienna/Ody and as reliable?

Likely just about half the price.  As far as reliability, probably not.  But you can afford a lots of repairs with the money you saved at purchase...

[CSH]

Is this due to quality of parts or poor design?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Is this due to quality of parts or poor design?

I don't know what you're asking?  Are you asking why they depreciate so much?  Or why they are not as reliable? 

Truth be told, I actually don't know for sure if the 2011+ Grand Caravan is as reliable as an Odyssey or a Sienna.  The Odyssey and the Sienna have a reputation for being reliable, and the Grand Caravan has a reputation for being a piece of crap, but do the reputations hold up to reality?  I believe a lot of it may have to do with proper maintenance.  If you maintain a vehicle properly, it will likely last for many, many years, and provide hundreds of thousands of problem-free motoring.  I think (and this is only a theory) that because the Grand Caravan is cheaper to buy (both new and used) than an Odyssey or a Sienna, that a lower-income class of people buy it.  These people often don't have the disposable income to do proper preventative maintenance on their Grand Caravan, and therefore, more instances of breakdowns are seen on them.  This has nothing to do with the design or build quality of the vans, but have everything to do with how the owners treat them.  Conversely, I believe that Odysseys and Siennas are typically bought by more affluent middle class families, who can afford to do all the scheduled maintenance on their vehicles.  Therefore the perception could be that the Odyssey and Sienna are better built and longer lasting than the Grand Caravan.

I've seen some older Grand Caravans from the early 2000's still hanging around, with many hundreds of thousands of kms on them, and they're still going.  Also, don't forget, that Odysseys and Siennas aren't free of problems either.  The 2nd gen Odyssey had significant transmission issues (often necessitating new transmissions).  3rd gen Odysseys had problems with steering mechanisms.    The 2011+ Grand Caravans haven't had any major issues creep up in either the Pentastar Engine or the 62TE 6-speed transmission.  A lot of the problems that you had with older engines (for example, power steering pump hoses coming off on 2008-2010 Grand Caravans when extremely cold out) have been fixed or eliminated with the new engine.  The biggest 'problem' with the Grand Caravan is that the chassis is a 10 year old design.  It's not as stiff as a modern minivan chassis, and they cheaped out on the rear suspension (solid beam axle, not IRS) so they don't ride or handle as well as the Odyssey, Sienna, or even the new Pacifica.  That being said, that rear beam axle (with coil springs) is about as reliable of a rear suspension as you could ever ask for, due to its simplicity.

Ultimately, it all comes down to how you treat your vehicle, and how much money you put into maintenance.  If you skip key maintenance intervals on any vehicle, even a Sienna or an Odyssey, you're going to start having problems.  Conversely, if you spend money maintaining your Grand Caravan (or your Odyssey/Sienna) properly, it should reward you with many years of trouble-free service. 

[CSH]

Cool..thanks, your comments make a lot of sense. Yeah if there are no known initial issues then vehicles should last when maintained properly. Design issues will cause parts to fail repeatedly even if they are replaced regularly.
Wonder how they can sell the vans much cheaper if the parts quality is at par.

[dirtyjeffer]

Hasn't the tranny always been the weak spot on the GC?

some of the older ones, but quite often, it may have more to do with the van being loaded up a lot and no transmission cooler...i think the factory tow package gives a transmission cooler, but a lot people simply add the hitch at a later date.

Actually, on 2011+, the factory tow package does not beef up the transmission cooler, as it already comes with one right from the factory.  The only tangible thing that the factory tow package gives you (that can't be added later such as hitch and wiring) is the Nivomat self-levelling springs.  Mine came with a dealer installed Mopar hitch and wiring harness, and all I had to do to make it a worthy tow vehicle was beef up the rear suspension with airbags.

hmmm...i was pretty sure some didn't come with a cooler as my friend found out afterwards on his (i think it is a 2012 or 2013 model)...he also has the base 3.0L engine, not the uplevel 3.6L Pentastar.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I imagine the margins on the Grand Caravans would be pretty thin, but they make up for it with volume.  The Odysseys and Siennas probably have much higher margins, but they sell less of them. 

In addition, because the Grand Caravan has been around for a decade+ mow, the tooling that they use to build it has long been paid for, so the margins on the Grand Caravan today are probably higher than they were when it was first introduced and they were still paying for the tooling.

[dirtyjeffer]

Is this due to quality of parts or poor design?

I don't know what you're asking?  Are you asking why they depreciate so much?  Or why they are not as reliable? 

Truth be told, I actually don't know for sure if the 2011+ Grand Caravan is as reliable as an Odyssey or a Sienna.  The Odyssey and the Sienna have a reputation for being reliable, and the Grand Caravan has a reputation for being a piece of crap, but do the reputations hold up to reality?  I believe a lot of it may have to do with proper maintenance.  If you maintain a vehicle properly, it will likely last for many, many years, and provide hundreds of thousands of problem-free motoring.  I think (and this is only a theory) that because the Grand Caravan is cheaper to buy (both new and used) than an Odyssey or a Sienna, that a lower-income class of people buy it.  These people often don't have the disposable income to do proper preventative maintenance on their Grand Caravan, and therefore, more instances of breakdowns are seen on them.  This has nothing to do with the design or build quality of the vans, but have everything to do with how the owners treat them.  Conversely, I believe that Odysseys and Siennas are typically bought by more affluent middle class families, who can afford to do all the scheduled maintenance on their vehicles.  Therefore the perception could be that the Odyssey and Sienna are better built and longer lasting than the Grand Caravan.

I've seen some older Grand Caravans from the early 2000's still hanging around, with many hundreds of thousands of kms on them, and they're still going.  Also, don't forget, that Odysseys and Siennas aren't free of problems either.  The 2nd gen Odyssey had significant transmission issues (often necessitating new transmissions).  3rd gen Odysseys had problems with steering mechanisms.    The 2011+ Grand Caravans haven't had any major issues creep up in either the Pentastar Engine or the 62TE 6-speed transmission.  A lot of the problems that you had with older engines (for example, power steering pump hoses coming off on 2008-2010 Grand Caravans when extremely cold out) have been fixed or eliminated with the new engine.  The biggest 'problem' with the Grand Caravan is that the chassis is a 10 year old design.  It's not as stiff as a modern minivan chassis, and they cheaped out on the rear suspension (solid beam axle, not IRS) so they don't ride or handle as well as the Odyssey, Sienna, or even the new Pacifica.  That being said, that rear beam axle (with coil springs) is about as reliable of a rear suspension as you could ever ask for, due to its simplicity.

Ultimately, it all comes down to how you treat your vehicle, and how much money you put into maintenance.  If you skip key maintenance intervals on any vehicle, even a Sienna or an Odyssey, you're going to start having problems.  Conversely, if you spend money maintaining your Grand Caravan (or your Odyssey/Sienna) properly, it should reward you with many years of trouble-free service.

all excellent and likely very valid points.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Hasn't the tranny always been the weak spot on the GC?

some of the older ones, but quite often, it may have more to do with the van being loaded up a lot and no transmission cooler...i think the factory tow package gives a transmission cooler, but a lot people simply add the hitch at a later date.

Actually, on 2011+, the factory tow package does not beef up the transmission cooler, as it already comes with one right from the factory.  The only tangible thing that the factory tow package gives you (that can't be added later such as hitch and wiring) is the Nivomat self-levelling springs.  Mine came with a dealer installed Mopar hitch and wiring harness, and all I had to do to make it a worthy tow vehicle was beef up the rear suspension with airbags.

hmmm...i was pretty sure some didn't come with a cooler as my friend found out afterwards on his (i think it is a 2012 or 2013 model)...he also has the base 3.0L engine, not the uplevel 3.6L Pentastar.

So, you're a little confused.  2008-2010 Grand Caravan came with a choice of a 3.3L with a 4-speed, and a 3.8L, or a 4.0L, both with 6-speed transmissions.  It is entirely possible that those engines/transmission did not come with an auxiliary transmission cooler unless the tow package was ordered (tow package was only available on the 3.8L or 4.0L anyway).  My research into tranny coolers doesn't extend that far back, so I can't say for sure.

From MY 2011 onwards, all those engines were eliminated and replaced with the 3.6L Pentastar and 6-speed transmission as the only engine option.  The new engine/transmission combo definitely comes with a transmission cooler as standard equipment, and I know from my research that ordering the tow package doesn't increase the size of the transmission cooler.  I know this because Mopar Parts departments only have 1 SKU for a transmission cooler.  If there were 2 different tranny coolers (one for non-towing package, and one for towing package), they would have 2 separate SKU's. 

The reason I know so much about transmission coolers on the 2011+ GC's is because I always intended to tow a trailer when we bought our van (it was the whole point of buying the van), so I did a ton of research into whether an auxiliary transmission cooler would need to be installed.

[dirtyjeffer]

i'm guessing his was a 2010 model then, because it didn't have the Pentastar engine (which he thought it had)...it must be the 3.3L...he said it's a dog.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

i'm guessing his was a 2010 model then, because it didn't have the Pentastar engine (which he thought it had)...it must be the 3.3L...he said it's a dog.

Yeah, the 3.3L had 175hp and 205lb-ft.  Completely inadequate for the van's ~4300-4400lbs curb weight.  The 3.8L made 197hp and 230lb-ft, while the 4.0L made 251hp and 259lb-ft.

The 3.6L makes 283hp and 260lb-ft.  You can imagine its a marked improvement over that POS 3.3L.  It tows my 2500lb Pop-Up trailer with ease.  Downshift to 4th, and it will hold 100kms/h at 3500rpm up a steep, long grade while fully loaded with trailer, people and coolers.

[dirtyjeffer]

i'm guessing his was a 2010 model then, because it didn't have the Pentastar engine (which he thought it had)...it must be the 3.3L...he said it's a dog.

Yeah, the 3.3L had 175hp and 205lb-ft.  Completely inadequate for the van's ~4300-4400lbs curb weight.  The 3.8L made 197hp and 230lb-ft, while the 4.0L made 251hp and 259lb-ft.

The 3.6L makes 283hp and 260lb-ft.  You can imagine its a marked improvement over that POS 3.3L.  It tows my 2500lb Pop-Up trailer with ease.  Downshift to 4th, and it will hold 100kms/h at 3500rpm up a steep, long grade while fully loaded with trailer, people and coolers.

yea...from what i've read, the Pentastar engine is a very decent engine.

[revalations]

Talking about long lasting don't forget my Grand Caravan, now at 652,000 km. It's the original engine still. The 3.3's certainly were dog's power wise, I couldn't imagine towing with one.

[me_2]

Talking about Caravan, long time no see the below generation I crossed this morning.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

There is a 1st generation Grand Caravan that lives in my area somewhere. I've seen it a few times.  Driven by a little old lady. 

[Arthur Dent]

Talking about long lasting don't forget my Grand Caravan, now at 652,000 km. It's the original engine still. The 3.3's certainly were dog's power wise, I couldn't imagine towing with one.

Those 3.3L engines are tough. I bet almost every Caravan with it goes to the scrapyard still running. Designed by the same guy as the slant six from what I hear.

[revalations]

I learned to drive in a 1st gen Caravan. It had the 2.6 Mitsubishi 4 cyl, 30km/h going up the Cochrane hill flat out (I bet some good cyclists can do it at 20k) when Chrysler installed a V6 it took those vans to a whole new level.