Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Chevrolet Orlando 2LT

[Schmengie]

The Orlando appears not to be selling very well here. The dealer's had a few on the lot for some weeks now but I have yet to see one on the road. IMO it's not a bad-looking vehicle, actually better in the steel than in photos, though too SUV-like for my taste. It'll be interesting to see how the Orlando fares against the much sleeker Mazda5, which seems to be the benchmark of this class.

[whaddaiknow]

So far it's selling pretty well (for its class). Nice to see a manual offered.

Cars depreciate. It's a fact of life. Some are better than others. Quite often the comparisons are based on purchasing at MSRP, not actual purchase price, so they end up skewed. If a car has a list price of $27k and you bought it for $21k, then sold it a few years later for $11k, you didn't actually lose $16k to depreciation. Most studies miss that point.

A list of the cars suffering the worst depreciation was making the rounds a few years ago. It was dominated by high end European cars. The worst was the Audi A8 IIRC, but the S-class and 7 series weren't far behind.

I'm glad to hear it is selling well but the example with luxury sedans you advanced cannot be directly compared to the compact class. It would be more fair to compare a Civic, Fit, 5, Rio, or a Corolla (actual deal $$ and 5 year residual) to the projected value of the Orlando in both basic and loaded trims and build your case that way. And if the projected residual in 4 or 5 years on a loaded Orlando is less than 30% of its original actual purchase price while the mid-level trim is 35-40% then the actual $ delta would make a sensible buyer take a very long minute to think again whether those gizmos are really worth it.

All luxo brand depreciate fast, even the '07 LS460 with ~80k km's can be had for around $30k now.

[dkaz]

October 2011 Canadian sales, from goodcarbadcar.net

1. Chevrolet Orlando - 409 (Sept '11 - N/A, Oct '10 - N/A, YTD - 409, 2010 - N/A)
2. Kia Rondo - 391 (Sept '11 - 475, Oct '11 - 285, YTD - 5,637, 2010 - 6,307)
3. Mazda 5 - 359 (Sept '11 - 461, Oct '11 - 489, YTD - 5,409, 2010 - 7,532)

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So far it's selling pretty well (for its class). Nice to see a manual offered.

Cars depreciate. It's a fact of life. Some are better than others. Quite often the comparisons are based on purchasing at MSRP, not actual purchase price, so they end up skewed. If a car has a list price of $27k and you bought it for $21k, then sold it a few years later for $11k, you didn't actually lose $16k to depreciation. Most studies miss that point.

A list of the cars suffering the worst depreciation was making the rounds a few years ago. It was dominated by high end European cars. The worst was the Audi A8 IIRC, but the S-class and 7 series weren't far behind.

I'm glad to hear it is selling well but the example with luxury sedans you advanced cannot be directly compared to the compact class. It would be more fair to compare a Civic, Fit, 5, Rio, or a Corolla (actual deal $$ and 5 year residual) to the projected value of the Orlando in both basic and loaded trims and build your case that way. And if the projected residual in 4 or 5 years on a loaded Orlando is less than 30% of its original actual purchase price while the mid-level trim is 35-40% then the actual $ delta would make a sensible buyer take a very long minute to think again whether those gizmos are really worth it.

All luxo brand depreciate fast, even the '07 LS460 with ~80k km's can be had for around $30k now.

It's not necessary. Loaded up vehicles have a higher depreciation rate than base versions of the same model. It doesn't matter if it's a Corolla, Fit, or Orlando.

Some people want all the bells and whistles and are willing to pay regardless of depreciation. For the majority of people, car buying is not a rational exercise.

[CanuckS2K]

So far it's selling pretty well (for its class). Nice to see a manual offered.

Cars depreciate. It's a fact of life. Some are better than others. Quite often the comparisons are based on purchasing at MSRP, not actual purchase price, so they end up skewed. If a car has a list price of $27k and you bought it for $21k, then sold it a few years later for $11k, you didn't actually lose $16k to depreciation. Most studies miss that point.

A list of the cars suffering the worst depreciation was making the rounds a few years ago. It was dominated by high end European cars. The worst was the Audi A8 IIRC, but the S-class and 7 series weren't far behind.

I'm glad to hear it is selling well but the example with luxury sedans you advanced cannot be directly compared to the compact class. It would be more fair to compare a Civic, Fit, 5, Rio, or a Corolla (actual deal $$ and 5 year residual) to the projected value of the Orlando in both basic and loaded trims and build your case that way. And if the projected residual in 4 or 5 years on a loaded Orlando is less than 30% of its original actual purchase price while the mid-level trim is 35-40% then the actual $ delta would make a sensible buyer take a very long minute to think again whether those gizmos are really worth it.

All luxo brand depreciate fast, even the '07 LS460 with ~80k km's can be had for around $30k now.

It's not necessary. Loaded up vehicles have a higher depreciation rate than base versions of the same model. It doesn't matter if it's a Corolla, Fit, or Orlando.

Some people want all the bells and whistles and are willing to pay regardless of depreciation. For the majority of people, car buying is not a rational exercise.

And all this time I thought I was being completely rational when I jumped on a plane to Chicago and drove home in my S2000.   

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And all this time I thought I was being completely rational when I jumped on a plane to Chicago and drove home in my S2000.   

Oh that was! I'm talking about other people. 

[Blueprint]

Out-the-door value will depend on what incentives are offered.

A friend of mine (with 4 kids) just bought a brand-new 2011 Grand Caravan SXT with only one option (the 3-zone HVAC) ... for 21,995$.  Not a demo, just a leftover '11.  Even if the GC only does in the 13's (L/100km), with such pricing and the improvements on the '11 this van has serious value.  He was offered 100$ for his loaded '00 Montana, paid over 30k$ back then...

[aaronk]

I like the concept, and although I'm not a big fan of the looks I hope this works out for GM.

[whaddaiknow]

Out-the-door value will depend on what incentives are offered.

A friend of mine (with 4 kids) just bought a brand-new 2011 Grand Caravan SXT with only one option (the 3-zone HVAC) ... for 21,995$.  Not a demo, just a leftover '11.  Even if the GC only does in the 13's (L/100km), with such pricing and the improvements on the '11 this van has serious value.  He was offered 100$ for his loaded '00 Montana, paid over 30k$ back then...

Thank you. That was a perfect illustration of the point I was trying to get across.
Of course, there are tons of people head over heels in consumerism maxing out their lines of credit to get the 'latest andn greatest' in today's gadget world only to realize that this gadgetry is worth shlt in 5 years and they still owe a shlt load to the bank.

I too have a friend who paid close to $20k for a used Montana that began to fall apart after 3 years of ownership. When they went to trade it in, they were offered exactly $500 for it while still owing $8,000 on it which they successfully rolled into their new vehicle purchase (a new 4-cyl Sonata) that in the end cost them over $30k. Acted on impulse? I don't think so as the van was falling apart and they needed a new car. But having $8,000 in outstanding balance and ramping it up to $30k (7 year financing) tells me they will not retire debt free and their kids will have to take care of their own education. Sad.
Had that been a used Odyssey or a Sienna, or a brand new Caravan for under $20k (which is an awesome value), chances are they would have been better off today but they went for a used domestic with all the bells and whistles at the time that were worth nothing shortly after.

But the sensible bunch will make a balanced decision based on economics rather than emotion.

But I'll say this. Less is more but I am glad there are many people driven by emotion in their spending as that's how capitalism operates. Debt is a powerful tool to control the masses.

[tortoise]

I'm not sure what the Orlando offers over the competition.

Surely the Rondo will beat it in price and can also seat 7 and the Mazda5 will be more fun to drive and have sliding doors.  Believe it or not some people buy the 5 because it has sliding doors not in spite of them. 

I'm not surprised by the fuel consumption.  The thing weighs 3400 lbs and that's a lot of weight for a 4 cyl to motivate. 

[dirtyjeffer]

i haven't seen one in person (or driven one either, obviously), but i think it looks decent for what it is...i agree keeping it in the $25k range is likely the best "bang for the buck"...my friend has a 5 and loves the sliding doors (to back up what tortoise mentioned)...the fuel economy isn't fantastic, but most "vans" aren't anyway...the only thing that makes me scratch my head is why GMs DI 2.4 is about 25HP (and 13 lb ft of torque) less than the one Hyundai/Kia uses...no, not a deal breaker (likely not even a noticeable difference when driven), just not sure what Hyundai/Kia do to theirs that GM isn't doing to theirs, that's all.

[Winterpeg]

Interesting that this car is built in Korea.  Reminds me alot of my Rondo, especially the seating. Nice to see that they kept the manual option. Are they sharing design/technology?

I wonder why GM did not bring over the, arguably, better looking Opel Zafira. http://www.opelzafira.co.za/content_data/LAAM/ZA/en/GBPZA/019/opelzafira/viewer.html

I drove a 7 seater diesel Zafira in Spain and quite liked it.

I agree.....a VERY sharp looking vehicle from the outside.
It would of costed too much to adapt to our bumper requirements me thinks. Too bad.   

[Winterpeg]

I think the Ford C Max is going to give everybody in this segment a good run (or should I say "gallop") for the $$$$$$.
Yee Haw!!!     

[conwelpic]

October 2011 Canadian sales, from goodcarbadcar.net

1. Chevrolet Orlando - 409 (Sept '11 - N/A, Oct '10 - N/A, YTD - 409, 2010 - N/A)
2. Kia Rondo - 391 (Sept '11 - 475, Oct '11 - 285, YTD - 5,637, 2010 - 6,307)
3. Mazda 5 - 359 (Sept '11 - 461, Oct '11 - 489, YTD - 5,409, 2010 - 7,532)

it should stand to reason that they will sell more Orlando's than Rondo's or Mazda 5's as Chevy has the largest number of dealerships.

[aaronk]

I think the Ford C Max is going to give everybody in this segment a good run (or should I say "gallop") for the $$$$$$.
Yee Haw!!!     

I would heartily agree, I think that will be the one to beat.

[libraman]

I think the Ford C Max is going to give everybody in this segment a good run (or should I say "gallop") for the $$$$$$.
Yee Haw!!!     

I would heartily agree, I think that will be the one to beat.

But I think it is only to be offered as a 5 seater hybrid in NA, at least that is what I thought read somewhere.

[libraman]

 I doubt the Sienna would beat the Orlando in real world city driving. In CR real world tests the Sienna got 14/27 miles per US gallon while the Mazda 5 got 15/34.  I doubt that they will test the Orlando since it is not available in the US.

Wow they have lead feet. My worst ever in my Mazda 5 is 20 US MPG, that's pure city driving, A/C on full blast all the time...

Is yours a manual? The tested model was a 5 speed auto.

[SaskSpecV]

I think the Ford C Max is going to give everybody in this segment a good run (or should I say "gallop") for the $$$$$$.
Yee Haw!!!     

I would heartily agree, I think that will be the one to beat.

But isn't the C-max coming in "hybrid-only" format? Or was that the Grand C-max? And which one are we getting again?  Only one of them, right? Either way, although the C-max should be a direct competitor of the Orlando in terms of size/capacity, it may not be in terms of price/powertrain.

I realise Ford has to promote their "One Ford" strategy, but I can't keep it all straight - what models are coming to NA?  Which are for Europe?  I don't think Ford of Canada knows either.  I must say my attention to Ford's product offerings has waned significantly once they decided - in their infinite wisdom - that Canadians ("Mercans", too) aren't interested in the new Focus wagon.  I'm glad we're getting the C-max, but why is the Focus wagon a casualty of that decision?

[Schmengie]

I think the Ford C Max is going to give everybody in this segment a good run (or should I say "gallop") for the $$$$$$.
Yee Haw!!!     

 Last time I checked, there was still no reference to the C-Max on Ford's Canadian website. According to this story, when the C-Max does become available it will only be as a 5-passenger plug-in hybrid, at least in the US. I assume the same will be true here.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/ford-cancels-7-passenger-c-max-for-us-now-coming-as-hybridplug-in-only/

[dkaz]

I'm not sure what the Orlando offers over the competition.

Surely the Rondo will beat it in price and can also seat 7 and the Mazda5 will be more fun to drive and have sliding doors.  Believe it or not some people buy the 5 because it has sliding doors not in spite of them. 

I'm not surprised by the fuel consumption.  The thing weighs 3400 lbs and that's a lot of weight for a 4 cyl to motivate. 

Rondo in 7 seater format starts at $23,795 with standard automatic, it's the base 5 seater that's $19,995. Mazda 5 has a higher starting price as well at $21,795 , but it comes standard with air conditioning with auto climate control, auto lights, and rain sensing wipers, and can be optioned with a $1,200 automatic transmission. The Mazda 5 is the best value out there if you ask me. I expect the base $19,995 Orlando LS to be a 1-2% seller, a 1LT is $22,295, plus $1,450 for those who want the automatic.

The Mazda 5 is also 3,450 lb.

Is yours a manual? The tested model was a 5 speed auto.

The 5 speed auto in the 08+ Mazda 5 is not much less fuel efficient than the 5 and actually with the 2012 model and 2.5L engine it's more fuel efficient than the manual in the city and highway. I'd still drive a manual any day.