Topic: First Drive: 2013 Toyota RAV4

[blotter]

I do plan to still give it a chance, but i've knocked it down the list.

when a company comes out with a new model, I would expect it usually gets lighter.
especially when they've removed the heavy duty swing door and got rid of the full size spare.

I can't imagine going from a 5 speed to 6 would add much weight.
however i've read that part of the upgrade was reinforcing the roof due to poor crash tests which may one reason why it's heavier?

i'm no mechanic or engineer, but usually if the vehicle gets heavier you want an increase in horsepower not decrease.   more weight, more work.   

I was just really shocked to read the power being compared to the Subaru Crosstrek, when most complaints (in reviews) on the Crosstrek is the vehicle is under-powered.
(but that could also be a feeling due to the CVT)

[Noto]

i'm no mechanic or engineer, but usually if the vehicle gets heavier you want an increase in horsepower not decrease.   more weight, more work.   

I was just really shocked to read the power being compared to the Subaru Crosstrek, when most complaints (in reviews) on the Crosstrek is the vehicle is under-powered.
(but that could also be a feeling due to the CVT)

Remember that the numbers posted are for peak power/torque - how the engine gets up to those numbers can vary widely.  Boxer engines typically have broader torque curves, which is why many will find them 'peppier' at launch.  Transmissions can play a huge role in the usability of engine power as well.

Again, don't hate on CVTs.  They can be very, very good.  I posted on the Merc CLA's forum (information purposes only) that the 0-60 time for the CLA of 6.7s is slower than the Forester XT's 6.2s, despite them both having the same size/type of engine (2.0T), despite the CLA having a cd of 0.28 vs the Forester's 0.33, and despite the CLA weighing 200lbs less and using a 7 speed dual clutch auto.  Case in point, CVTs don't necessarily suck, and peak hp/torque numbers are not the be-all/end-all.

[jyarkony]

i'm no mechanic or engineer, but usually if the vehicle gets heavier you want an increase in horsepower not decrease.   more weight, more work.   

I was just really shocked to read the power being compared to the Subaru Crosstrek, when most complaints (in reviews) on the Crosstrek is the vehicle is under-powered.
(but that could also be a feeling due to the CVT)

Remember that the numbers posted are for peak power/torque - how the engine gets up to those numbers can vary widely.  Boxer engines typically have broader torque curves, which is why many will find them 'peppier' at launch.  Transmissions can play a huge role in the usability of engine power as well.

Again, don't hate on CVTs.  They can be very, very good.  I posted on the Merc CLA's forum (information purposes only) that the 0-60 time for the CLA of 6.7s is slower than the Forester XT's 6.2s, despite them both having the same size/type of engine (2.0T), despite the CLA having a cd of 0.28 vs the Forester's 0.33, and despite the CLA weighing 200lbs less and using a 7 speed dual clutch auto.  Case in point, CVTs don't necessarily suck, and peak hp/torque numbers are not the be-all/end-all.

Dual clutches are known for having very slow initial uptake at the more affordable end of the spectrum (not talk about M5s and R8s), so not surprised that CLA lags behind the Forester XT.

Just drove the RAV4 finally, though, and i think it feels plenty powerful, much better than the XV Crosstrek, similar to Forester (non-XT) and CR-V. Power is just fine. where the XV surprises people is throttle tip-in. the thing just leaps away the second you feather the throttle - a lot of people confuse that with good power, but I found it irritating along with the XV's harsh ride. but thing is, those are really the only 2 things i didn't like about the XV Crosstrek, and its fuel consumption impressed us a lot during our long-term test. 

the transmission might have one more gear, but the RAV4 kept hunting around for gears at speeds below highway cruising at the slightest change in throttle, and may have been too eager to drop down a gear when not in Eco mode...

NoTo - agree with pretty much all your points about the interior, and would add that despite the leather on the dash, it is not a high quality leather, which to me pretty much defeats the purpose. Also not a fan of the fake stitching on the plastic steering wheel hub... i mean, it's right next to real stitching on the leather dahs, so it's just painfully obviously fake.

[blotter]

the thing just leaps away the second you feather the throttle

that was the feel of the RAV V6
which i wasn't big on because it was too easy the launch and really burn fuel.
so you had to get used to having a really light foot for smooth accelaration.

When I think of a vehicle having enough "power" - I mean that in the sense to do what it was intended for (SUV / CUV) hauling people and gear along the highway and winding hilly roads without struggling.   I really could care less about power for 0-60 times.  I'm looking for practicality.

Just drove the RAV4 finally, though, and i think it feels plenty powerful, much better than the XV Crosstrek, similar to Forester (non-XT) and CR-V. Power is just fine. where the XV surprises people is throttle tip-in. the thing just leaps away the second you feather the throttle - a lot of people confuse that with good power, but I found it irritating along with the XV's harsh ride. but thing is, those are really the only 2 things i didn't like about the XV Crosstrek, and its fuel consumption impressed us a lot during our long-term test. 

thanks for posting that!  It certainly makes it more clear

[Noto]

...and would add that despite the leather on the dash, it is not a high quality leather, which to me pretty much defeats the purpose. Also not a fan of the fake stitching on the plastic steering wheel hub... i mean, it's right next to real stitching on the leather dahs, so it's just painfully obviously fake.

It goes back to a forum we had a while ago - I think on the Verano - where we all weighed in on what "luxury" or "premium" appointments are.

I think one requisite that would guarantee happy consumers is good quality materials throughout - especially where the materials are near the occupants - the steering wheel is simply no place for cheap plastics.