Topic: Meloche Monnex - Total Loss ???

[scubaguy2012]

Hello all,

I am a customer of TD MM and I am personally at a total loss (wits end of understanding).
Sadly, I recently rear-ended someone. Bad day (bad year) and the first time I've done something like this in 27 years of driving. I feel very bad about it.
I'm a customer of TD MM and I have been PAYING PREMIUMS for years for their '5 yr replacement guarantee'. I genuinely hope I'd never use it. Well, 2 weeks ago life happened.
Very little damage to the person ahead, and I thought mine was, well, not good, but didn't seem too bad. (2 airbags did go off), but otherwise, all front end, dash looks totally unaffected other than the airbags, motor etc. appears not touched. seemed all forward - i.e. - radiator etc. I was blown away when I hear it would be north of 18k in repairs!?? Like - how? I thought for sure - a write off. Well, not to TDMM!

It's a 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe (that's right, a Hyundai, not a Lamborghini). 18k+ of damage (and this doesn't include towing, rental, storage, etc.). This would just be parts and labor. I thought for sure - write off.

Well, apparently not. They tell me that it's repairable, and that it would have to be damage more than 80% of the vehicle value before they would write it off. 80% ?? ?

By trade, I'm an engineer. I simply cannot see how you can do 18k of damage to a normal car (i.e. - not a 100k car!), fix it, and have it meeting manufacturers spec - i.e. - performance, function, SAFETY systems. Makes no sense. Just because you throw parts at something, doesn't mean it restores the system to full function.

I asked the rep where I would read about this 80% rule thing. Is it in my policy? annual paper mailout?  She said - no, you can't read it anywhere - it's 'internal'.
She also said that salvage value is 19.3% of the actual value. I asked where that %age comes from - she said it's from a company they work with.

Finally, I asked both the collision shop and TDMM if they would write a letter of attestation that the vehicle upon repair would meet or exceed the performance, function and safety spec of the manufacturer. They BOTH declined to do so. As an engineer, what am I to take from that?

Any advice? help? I feel totally at a loss, like there's no hope. I just want a car that I can feel safe having family in. Even if they offered to buy me another used one (2013) from auto trader, I'd be totally ok with that. I'm not looking for a new car, but I am looking for 'replacement'.

And after taking 10 days to make their decision, they now want an answer ASAP and are threatening to take away the rental car otherwise.

I am in disbelief.
Never been through anything like this.
HELP!

[rrocket]

I know there is an appeals process for this sort of thing.  But I can't give you more info than that. 

Some others here will have more info.  Wonder what Hyundai would say?

[ArticSteve]

TD MM offers a 5 year Waiver of Depreciation ?   WOW!  Awesome.

As for the 80% rule, yes it is the insurance standard.  $18K in repairs falls below the "WAIVER".  Consequently, you are getting your 2013 repaired LIKE IT OR NOT.  It will never be as it was and it now has a diminished value.

There is nothing you can do about it.  NOTHING! 

Welcome to the private Ontario Insurance Oligarchy

[toolatecrew]

Lets make a couple of reasonable assumptions.

A new Santa Fe starts around 27 K plus freaight so lets say 30L
Your Santa Fe is worth maybe 24K on the market.
Salvage Vale at 19% of 24 is = $4500

So if insurance writes it off they have to pay out 30k for a replacement- 4500 for salvage = 25,500 total payout

If they repair it with all OEM parts (air bags are expensive ) because your 5 year replacement policy requires OEM parts it costs 18 K
They have to be able to repair it safely or they can't repair it. The $ cost of repairs doesn't really have an bearing on safety With all due respect engineers are not auto body technicians just as auto body technicians don't design bridges.

Its going to cost them 7500 LESS to repair that car than write it off.

Read your policy. You are getting what you paid for. They get to decide how they return you to pre accident condition. They could spend 35k in repairs on the car if they choose as long as it meets specs and is safe.
We may not like it but you get what the policy you pay for entitles you too. Nothing more nothing less.



 .

[ArticSteve]

I think costs could readily escalate, especially where airbags have deployed.

Quite sure those airbags have been included as well as HST.  I hit a deer in the wife's Camry SE 3 years ago.  New hood, 2 fenders, 2 headlights, front air spoiler ($1400), complete grill, rad support, air condenser, full AC recharge plus dryer, 4 wheel alignment ....  $8700 tax in.

@ $18K in damage the diminished value will be an easy 3K. 

[ArticSteve]

Read your policy. You are getting what you paid for. They get to decide how they return you to pre accident condition. They could spend 35k in repairs on the car if they choose as long as it meets specs and is safe.

That's basically IT.

Watch you're rental situation.  Almost all policy have a ceiling.

[toolatecrew]

I think costs could readily escalate, especially where airbags have deployed.

Quite sure those airbags have been included as well as HST.  I hit a deer in the wife's Camry SE 3 years ago.  New hood, 2 fenders, 2 headlights, front air spoiler ($1400), complete grill, rad support, air condenser, full AC recharge plus dryer, 4 wheel alignment ....  $8700 tax in.

@ $18K in damage the diminished value will be an easy 3K. 

Depends on when the car is sold. Yes if he sells tomorrow you would get substantially less than normal due to the accident.
Drive the car for 10 years and then sell and its negligible.

Its moot anyway since you cannot buy a policy that covers diminished value in Canada. Even the allowed but uncommon practice of going after the other driver for the diminished value doesn't apply here. The OP stuck the other driver from behind. He's 100% at fault so no one to go after.

Not saying that any of this if "fair" or that I would want it to happen to me but it all falls within the laws and regulations as written.

[rrocket]

Remember...YOU have a choice of where the car is repaired.  Choose wisely.

[ArticSteve]

Depends on when the car is sold. Yes if he sells tomorrow you would get substantially less than normal due to the accident.
Drive the car for 10 years and then sell and its negligible.


Well obviously the diminished value applies TODAY. 

The OP has expressed great reservations about the "safety" of the vehicle after repair.  Factoring in a family, I wouldn't want to be owning that vehicle either not really ever knowing if the air bags will actually work as they should.  I assume they were the fronts.

[ArticSteve]

CBC Marketplace ran a show on diminished value on a dude from BC going after ICBC on a damaged Charger RT for 10K and winning.

[ktm525]

I had a 5 ton truck pile into the back of Ford Contour SVT and the repair bill came to $17 grand. I only paid $20k for the car. I had them repair it  because I loved driving that thing. It turned out fine but I took it to a high end shop.

[rrocket]

I had a 5 ton truck pile into the back of Ford Contour SVT and the repair bill came to $17 grand. I only paid $20k for the car. I had them repair it  because I loved driving that thing. It turned out fine but I took it to a high end shop.

This.  It REALLY matters where you take the car.  Some repair places use laser alignment on the frame, body panels, hood, etc.  Believe it or not, they can actually get the car re-built to closer spec than brand new.  But you have to find out who the best is. 

[toolatecrew]

Depends on when the car is sold. Yes if he sells tomorrow you would get substantially less than normal due to the accident.
Drive the car for 10 years and then sell and its negligible.


Well obviously the diminished value applies TODAY. 

The OP has expressed great reservations about the "safety" of the vehicle after repair.  Factoring in a family, I wouldn't want to be owning that vehicle either not really ever knowing if the air bags will actually work as they should.  I assume they were the fronts.

Why wouldn't the brand new OEM air bags and all the sensors that they are required to replace when the bags go off work?

[tooscoops]

the diminished value part is the real kicker... even if the best shop in the world fixes the car, if you ever decide to trade it in, you will never get the kind of money that you would get on a car with a clean history.

that's the part that never gets compensated. and it sucks.

totally understand your issues scuba, but not too much you can do other than keep complaining and hope someone actually listens... chance of it happening?.. not likely.

good luck.

[toolatecrew]

It does suck. It doesn't sound like anyone was hurt which is the important thing BUT had the impact been hard enough to also say break some engine mounts and wreck the engine in the process you'd be looking at a write off in which case rather than having a car with 18 damage and a lower residual he'd be driving a brand new 2014.

I've seen cars written off with far less damage.
1. Safety concerns. If the passenger compartment is deformed (moose fell on the roof)
2.Owner had a TON of business with the insurance broker. Insured banged up the vehicle for far less than than it was worth.

the diminished value part is the real kicker... even if the best shop in the world fixes the car, if you ever decide to trade it in, you will never get the kind of money that you would get on a car with a clean history.

that's the part that never gets compensated. and it sucks.

totally understand your issues scuba, but not too much you can do other than keep complaining and hope someone actually listens... chance of it happening?.. not likely.

good luck.

Look on the bright side.(not much of one I admit)

If the vehicle gets repaired for 18 K and the next day it falls off a cliff and is truly a total loss the Insurance has to pay out FULL value. Diminished value applies if you sell the vehicle but insurance companies can't take diminished value into account on a total loss pay out.

It works both ways.

[ArticSteve]

Why wouldn't the brand new OEM air bags and all the sensors that they are required to replace when the bags go off work?

Who exactly is at the autobody when these parts and labour are applied to the repair?  Only the dudes performing the task.  $18 bucks an hour doesn't get you absolute perfection.

The front passenger airbag system is the one that would be of some concern to me being more complex via passenger weight.

Definitely a vehicle that has had it's front bags replace is not something you want on the lot.

[wing]

The guy building it in the factory isn't necessarily any better.  It's pretty fool proof, buy part, plug in....

[ArticSteve]

The guy building it in the factory isn't necessarily any better.  It's pretty fool proof, buy part, plug in....


Tell that one to GM. 

You would need something to plug into.  Those sensor mounts in the engine compartment are obviously not exactly as they were.  That's where you might have a possible issue.  Are those front sensors positioned exactly as before.  Close might not be good enough.

[ArticSteve]

I was thinking the same thing as Wing.  I mean, it's not like the guy installing the air bag is actually performing sensitive calibrations...is it?

NONE.  Plug in play until you get into the front engine compartment.  Then it's probably repair by "experienced estimation".

I won't be putting my 90 year plus mother in the passenger seat of that unit.

[OliverD]

I was thinking the same thing as Wing.  I mean, it's not like the guy installing the air bag is actually performing sensitive calibrations...is it?

NONE.  Plug in play until you get into the front engine compartment.  Then it's probably repair by "experienced estimation".

I won't be putting my 90 year plus mother in the passenger seat of that unit.

If there is something wrong with the airbag system wouldn't the warning light come on?