Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP

[Erik]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

[Erik]

I wonder why the SI is not offered as a way more practical hatchback (aside from the increased structual stiffness of the coupe design).

Besides the Golf, hatchbacks I think have fallen out of favour with the car buying public.....or you would still be able to buy a brand new Dodge Omni GLH-S from a dealer 

And that is a sad thing. The lack of hot hatches.

[CanuckS2K]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

Perhaps you are right, but Hyundai isn't the first to combine Sedan and Coupe sales numbers.  Infiniti does this with their G and BMW does this with their 3 series lineup........neither one I'd hardly consider a sales disaster. 

[Erik]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

Perhaps you are right, but Hyundai isn't the first to combine Sedan and Coupe sales numbers.  Infiniti does this with their G and BMW does this with their 3 series lineup........neither one I'd hardly consider a sales disaster.

The 3 series coupe and sedan are effectively the same car. The Infiniti, however, does do the same thing as Hyundai, combining very different platform mates. Good point.

[CanuckS2K]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

Perhaps you are right, but Hyundai isn't the first to combine Sedan and Coupe sales numbers.  Infiniti does this with their G and BMW does this with their 3 series lineup........neither one I'd hardly consider a sales disaster.

The 3 series coupe and sedan are effectively the same car. The Infiniti, however, does do the same thing as Hyundai, combining very different platform mates. Good point.

Ummm nope.  Both the G Coupe and Sedan are built on the FM platform. 

[Erik]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

Perhaps you are right, but Hyundai isn't the first to combine Sedan and Coupe sales numbers.  Infiniti does this with their G and BMW does this with their 3 series lineup........neither one I'd hardly consider a sales disaster.

The 3 series coupe and sedan are effectively the same car. The Infiniti, however, does do the same thing as Hyundai, combining very different platform mates. Good point.

Ummm nope.  Both the G Coupe and Sedan are built on the FM platform.

Very different cars, built on the same platform. Ie platform mates.

[CanuckS2K]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

Hyundai has always played fast and loose with Genesis sales numbers. Likely because the sedan was a sales disaster, so they used the Coupe numbers to bolster the brand. But even then they never got close to their projections.

Perhaps you are right, but Hyundai isn't the first to combine Sedan and Coupe sales numbers.  Infiniti does this with their G and BMW does this with their 3 series lineup........neither one I'd hardly consider a sales disaster.

The 3 series coupe and sedan are effectively the same car. The Infiniti, however, does do the same thing as Hyundai, combining very different platform mates. Good point.

Ummm nope.  Both the G Coupe and Sedan are built on the FM platform.

Very different cars, built on the same platform. Ie platform mates.

Not following Erik.  The G Sedan and Coupe being built on the same platform are very different cars but the the 3 Series Coupe and Sedan being built on the F30 platform are effectively the same car??      

[dirtyjeffer]

As an only car, I'd take the Si. Much more practical and usable than the BRZ. Plus great reliability of a Honda, excellent resale value, decent fuel economy, etc.

agreed, although i likely wouldn't go for the HFP (the regular Si would likely be just as good as a "daily sporty car")...do they still only offer this in manual transmissions?

[OliverD]

Very different cars, built on the same platform. Ie platform mates.

That makes no sense. What makes the G coupe so strikingly different from the sedan?

[SaskSpecV]

I wonder why the SI is not offered as a way more practical hatchback (aside from the increased structual stiffness of the coupe design).

Besides the Golf, hatchbacks I think have fallen out of favour with the car buying public.....or you would still be able to buy a brand new Dodge Omni GLH-S from a dealer 

And that is a sad thing. The lack of hot hatches.

I'm not so sure about that - Focus ST, Mazdaspeed3, GTI, and WRX are all "true" hot hatches, and I'd argue the Mini Cooper S, Juke, Forte5 SX, and Fiat 500 Abarth fit the general criteria as well (though maybe not as "hot" as the aforementioned models). 

Not that I don't want to see more hot hatches on the market - possible contenders such as:
- Fiesta ST
- Elantra GT with 1.6L turbo
- Sonic RS with actual engine upgrade
- Civic Si hatch
Probably dreaming about the last one, but the Fiesta ST sounds like it is coming to NA.  ELantra GT upgrade - who knows; Sonic turbo - maybe the aftermarket can help out there?  Insideline has been very positive about the Sonic turbo's performance so far.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'm not so sure about that - Focus ST, Mazdaspeed3, GTI, and WRX are all "true" hot hatches, and I'd argue the Mini Cooper S, Juke, Forte5 SX, and Fiat 500 Abarth fit the general criteria as well (though maybe not as "hot" as the aforementioned models). 

Not that I don't want to see more hot hatches on the market - possible contenders such as:
- Fiesta ST
- Elantra GT with 1.6L turbo
- Sonic RS with actual engine upgrade
- Civic Si hatch
Probably dreaming about the last one, but the Fiesta ST sounds like it is coming to NA.  ELantra GT upgrade - who knows; Sonic turbo - maybe the aftermarket can help out there?  Insideline has been very positive about the Sonic turbo's performance so far.

The Sonic RS does get a lower final drive ratio, but a few more ponies would have been nice. Trifecta has a tune for the 1.4L that bumps it up another 40hp.

We are currently getting the best selection of hot hatches since their heyday in the 1980s.

[Mike]

You can also add Veloster Turbo and Beetle Turbo as slightly more odd hot hatches

[johngenx]

There's all kinds of sporty type cars for about $30K or less.  You can look at "hot hatches" but there are also the larger pony cars too.  Some nice choices!  Personally, even if it were going to be my only car, if I really wanted something fun to drive, no way I'd go FWD.  I drove hundreds of thousands of kilometers in the winter in RWD, open diff, no ASR/ESP Mercedes sedans with very little difficulty.  Good snow tires are the key to a positive winter experience, regardless of RWD, FWD or AWD.

[normancw]

 

[Fobroader]

  A Toyobaru thing or Mustang GT would be the first on my shopping list.

[redman]

Not a FWD fanboy myself. If it were the ideal, we would see it in top level racing.

[SaskSpecV]

There's all kinds of sporty type cars for about $30K or less.  You can look at "hot hatches" but there are also the larger pony cars too.  Some nice choices!  Personally, even if it were going to be my only car, if I really wanted something fun to drive, no way I'd go FWD.  I drove hundreds of thousands of kilometers in the winter in RWD, open diff, no ASR/ESP Mercedes sedans with very little difficulty.  Good snow tires are the key to a positive winter experience, regardless of RWD, FWD or AWD.

I'll agree with you on the RWD-sporty-cars can be driven all-year round theme.  My issue is the "even if it were going to be my only car" statement - I'd have no problem driving a RWD vehicle as my only car, but for me it would also have to be reasonably practical.  Unfortunately, the aforementioned RWD "sporty" cars (Mustang, Genesis, 128, Camaro, BRZ, etc.) are coupe-only, and therefore can't hold a candle to the practicality of a FWD/AWD hot hatch (even if only a 2-door hatch). 

For me, the increase in driving dynamics of RWD would not be worth the loss of functionality inherent to a coupe - but maybe that's because I need a hatchback for the dog!  Now if the old BMW M3 hatchback were still available (you know, the one that looks like a boot), maybe that would be the best of all worlds...

[johngenx]

...but for me it would also have to be reasonably practical...

Which is why, to me, if you have $30K to spend on a car and want fun to drive AND practical, it makes sense to forgo the single new car and go for a couple of units.  I've long had a second vehicle for enjoyment and the wagon/whatever to haul stuff around in.  Yeah, it means two insurance bills (though insurance on the Miata is $6/mos during off-season) and two plates and you have to have room for two cars, but it means a lot less compromise.

[TheHire]

I'm completely with Mike on this one.

The Civic HFP is fantastic to drive. It just may be me, but I found it a little more livable and comfortable for long drives than the Toyobaru. It just feels so much bigger inside, and easier to drive. It might even be that the Honda shifter is just about perfect.

I'd opt for a non-HFP Si at a couple grand lower, and at ~$25K it's much more appealing. Plus, then you can say "VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO"...

[Marko555]

I consider myself a car enthusiast and recently I purchased a white 2012 Civic Si Sedan.  The BRZ is far more fun but nowhere as practical.  Civic had quite a few things going for it, essentially fully loaded (sunroof, navigation, Bluetooth, fog lights, etc.)  I actually like the 2.4L from the TSX, it feels a lot faster 0-100km/h in comparison to my previous 2008 Civic Si Coupe.  The big thing was how cheap the Civic was to lease compared to the competition, because my 2008 Civic Si lease was coming up I was able to get 0.99%, zero down, 60 month lease on the 2012 Civic Si.  It worked out to $305+tax per month which I also write off as it is my business vehicle.  I was also able to get rid of my 2008 Civic SI which needed new tires, possibly a new clutch soon, and had a number of chips and dents.  It was going to be worth less than the buyout price.  While the competition looks similarly priced on paper, difficult getting into a BRZ, GTI, etc., under $400+tax per month. 

There are a few negatives to the 2012 Civic Si.

- The interior is horrible compared to 2008 Civic Si.  Everything is hard plastic; the armrest feels like a rock and doesn't adjust, etc.  I don't know what they were thinking at Honda.
- The seats fold but the passage is very small, won't be transporting any 50'' TVs with it.  Still miss my 2005 RSX Type-S, could easily accommodate a 50'' TV box and a variety of other things.
- Loud on the highway, same as 2008 Civic Si.