Topic: POLL: Winters vs All-Season Tires

[johngenx]

engine braking on all 4 wheels - but not very significant.

How would that work?  Your brakes already act on all four contact patches.  AWD/4WD etc. has NO advantage in braking.  In fact, comparable 2WD and AWD models often have the AWD version with LONGER braking distances thanks to the added weight of the AWD system.

[avtoller]

engine braking on all 4 wheels - but not very significant.

How would that work?  Your brakes already act on all four contact patches.  AWD/4WD etc. has NO advantage in braking.  In fact, comparable 2WD and AWD models often have the AWD version with LONGER braking distances thanks to the added weight of the AWD system.

ENGINE braking as in not using brakes but using a trailing throttle. I said there MIGHT be some TINY advantage - but not very significant - in that engine braking can provide good control without danger of lockup in icy/snowy conditions. I certainly have used engine braking in non-ABS cars to faciilitate stopping in icy conditions many times. My reasoning was if 2 wheels help, 4 may well give a SLIGHT advantage. In fact, my only experience using AWD was with the Forester. The ABS was terrible in certain icy conditions (I actively sought them out for experimental purposes) allowing steering control but little stopping ability. Engine braking DID seem to be a partial solution.

[laj]

I have been using dedicated winter tires since '94.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  Working shiftwork, the roads are seldom cleared when I have to go to work.  Both vehicles have their own winter tires mounted on winter rims and I change them myself as the need arises.  No lineups, no long appointments.  Here in MB they are a necessity.

[robarakira]

You're right AVT.  If you forget about the added mass of AWD, the car would be more stable when engine braking versus, say, a RWD car engine braking in winter.  That would be more like grabbing the handbrake! nono

[bassix]

I use winter tires (4) on the same steel wheels as my summers (a drag to pay for mounting/balancing, but still less expensive in the short term).

Although for the past couple of winters I've just kept my all-season Michelin X-Ones on. They're a bit of a handful in the snow now. I'm actually start to research around for good winters right now.

The best traction I've ever had was with Michelin Aplins (I think... Michelin had 2 winter models that would fit, and these were the top ones) on a Subaru Legacy GT. Felt like velcro sticking to the road through the snow!

I've driven all-wheel-drive cars and front-drive cars both with and without winters, and the winter tires do help a lot. All-wheel-drive will usually make sure you don't get *stuck*, but on bad tires in the winter, you'll still have to work a lot at keeping it going where you want. I've found that 4 winter tires on a front-drive car is better than summer tires on an AWD car (safer, more control/stability) on snow and ice. But AWD cars are just more fun ALL the time (if you are a rally fan like me)!

My two cents are now up.

[random006]

4 winter tires on dedicated rims.  On and off in no time and no damage to either rim or bead.

Given that my car is AWD in auto mode (RWD normally with power sent to the fronts when needed) I find that the 4 winters give me the kind of traction needed to handle just about any situation.  In fact, I have yet to try the 4x4 low gear.  I remember taking a corner slightly too fast and going into a skid.  Applying the proper technique and with the winter tires got the car straightened out in about 3 seconds.  The tires just "grabbed" the road and I was fine.  Other examples include all those snowy days when I'm trundling along without a problem and I see other cars barely holding on to their traction.

Last winter showed me one of the rare exceptions:

I turned onto a steep hill at slow speed but the surface was simply too icy.  I started to slide until I managed to steer to the curb where the snow was more plentiful and the curb could act as a brake.  Once past the top - and steepest part -  of the hill, the road became less icy and therefore more manageable.

Other than that one scare, using winter tires has dealt with all the problems I have experienced with All Seasons.  Having AWD with the option of true 4WD at the turn of a knob doesn't hurt either. 

This winter I will try the low gear and see if it makes any difference compared to letting the computer to do the job for me.  Can't wait to find those empty and unplowed parking lots. 

[safristi]

..the POLL is running 80% use Winters 20% DONT...I hazzard a guess that the REALITY is the REVERSE...!!!!You're ALL a buncha RUBBER FETISHISTS.....at the risk of being crucufied I have RUN NON-Winters fer 25PLUS years on MGB's,Lotus,and Family cars...ski-hills and Winter Vacations included......NO DITCHES YET!!!!!!My Karma is fully backed by MASTERASSCARD......!!!!! Am "considering" Hankook 300W ice bears this Winter just ta stop you LOT BEATCHIN"........

[wing]

I didn't use winters until I got my subaru that came with them.  I do feel a difference they are much better a braking than all-seasons.

You can survive with all-seasons you just have to be more carefull.  A large percentage of the accidents in the winter are rear-enders, and I'd say most of those are over driving tires, be it all seasons or winters, but having winters could probably cut those accidents in half.

I've seen the light, major difference.  I agree saffi in the real world I would guess it's the opposite but a lot of folks at work I talk to do change to winters.  Although I think only 1 of my neighbors changes and only one of his 2 cars.  The 4x4 has all-seasons of course because the 4x4 doesn't need winters

[Trainman]

Two different scenarios with us:

On the Sienna (FWD version), with have dedicated snowys on their own rims (that is how I voted).  They go on about now and come off around Victoria Day.  Currently using Hankook 404's, good traction in snow and on ice.

For my work truck, the Pathy, I use a good all around traction tire, LT rated.  No changeovers for winter.  Currently using Hankook RF04's.  Good in everything except mud, so may not go back to them.

[froggy]

Just dropped +1200$ on 2 set of winter tires (sending Morty's kids to college!  )....
I think they'll pay for themselves in the long term (Added security + less wear regular tires).
IMHO, much more useful in the winter than SAB or any Vehicle dynamic control gimmick, b/c the best way to survive an accident is still to avoid it! 

[No H2O]

What are you running? Do you think A/S tires live up to their claims or are Winter tires a necessity?

AS tires are next to useless and an exercise in frustration.

Besides, other than the price of steel rims, winter tires are basically "free". The AS tires you don't wear out during the winter months will last you almost twice as many spring/summer/fall seasons.

[johngenx]

Just dropped +1200$ on 2 set of winter tires (sending Morty's kids to college!

I sent Morty's tuition fund about $1500 a couple weeks ago, so I feel 'yer pain.  Way I figure it, it's cheap safety.

[froggy]

 

[safristi]

..Hmmmm...sounds like his kids could grow up to be Winter "teachers" wif "Summers !!" OFF......... ...do I hear a GROAN from the back of the class........GO stand in the corner and get a GRIP..!!!!!

[thumper]

Being in Vancouver, I hardly think there is a need for snow tires unless you are living in North/West Van where the elevations are higher and the terrain much more hilly.

-Rick

i live in vancouver too. i agree we don't have constant snowfall in the last few years... but the black ice and packed snow from sloppy street plowing was too much for my all-seasons, and i almost bought it one too many times driving to work in the dark in the morning. this year i will be going to an ice-biased snow tire.

[safristi]

..THUMPER...I think ya have a tyre out of round....!!!!!!! welcome to our World.........

[quadzilla]

I wonder what the % is per province.  I've noticed the couple of times I've been to Quebec in the winter that more cars have snows on them, including the Subies and Jeeps. 

[msian]

I wonder what the % is per province.  I've noticed the couple of times I've been to Quebec in the winter that more cars have snows on them, including the Subies and Jeeps. 

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031126-3.htm

As per the article,

More than three-quarters (78%) of Quebecers and almost as many (72%) Atlantic Canadians plan to put "winter boots" on their cars.


...which explains why you see a lot of cars equipped with winter tires...

And AWD with winter tires are even better! So, Subies and Jeeps should not be excluded from the winter tire party! 

[Whisper]

A/S tires are only good if your winter is a joke. If it's never below -10, no snow above 2"/winter they maybe ok. At -35, A/S tires are like hockey pucks; and I don't want to be the puck.

I was involved in a near incident in 2004. It was too cold for salt to work, and the sand trucks were just starting to run. There was more then 200 accidents reported to the cops before 8:00. The car in front of me T-boned the road between barriers. I hit the same patch of black ice. Since I had my winter boots on, I was able to easily stop before completing a multiple car pileup. The guy with the A/S tires in front of me was rather white faced.

It was a fun drive into work. I was watching cars do donuts in the rear mirror. Since then I've always wondered why people would rather risk thousands in damage rather then spend a few hundred for safety.

[Prodec]

A lot of these comments are generalizations at best.  I've ran A/S tires on my cars and trucks for 30 years.  I live in central Alberta, and did live in Quesnel, BC for 12 years.  I know what winters are about.  I'm accident free also!  A couple years ago I put Mich Harmonys A/S on the car they are great!  I live in a rural setting so we don't have the benifit of a snowplow for days after a snow fall sometimes.  The car has never been stuck lol.  My truck well it's a 4x4, and the odd day I'll drive my wife if it's really bad.  But for the most part she hauls no matter what.  Other tools we use is for winter driving are common sence and experiance.

Cheers