Topic: New Lotus Emira

[JohnnyMac]

You know I was thinking about this last night in bed, so Lotus kept the same Toyota 3.5 supercharged V6, and now partnered with AMG for their 2L turbo'd engine, as well as their dual clutch automatic.  You know what I wish they had done instead, went to Audi and took one of their RS engines, either the 2.5 Turbo 5 cylinder or even the 2.9 Turbo V6.  I'm assuming both would work as they aren't RWD platforms and similar to the AMG 4 cylinder.  They should enough space for both as the 3.5 V6 and supercharger isn't exactly a small engine.  Then they could have paired that with one of the dual clutch autos offered by Audi/VW group. 

The only reason I can think why this wouldn't have worked out if the relationship that Audi has with Porsche, and the fact that the Lotus is pegged to be a direct competitor to the Cayman S. 

BMW wouldn't have really been an option just because they typically use a RWD platform and the engine placement likely wouldn't have been ideal, plus again they are a direct competitor with their M2.

But that would have been pretty sweet, either that awesome near exotic sounds from the Audi 5 cylinder or the 450+Hp from the 2.9 turbo.

Other than the obvious stuff you've already stated, I think they needed a lower level engine, not a more powerful one. And AMG are known for doing deals like this, same as Lotus charge for their handling and design studio.

I wonder if the Audi one is also heavier, and maybe spins the wrong way?

From what I understand the AMG 2L turbo engine and dual clutch engine is actually the upgraded engine and likely produces around 400hp.  The base engine will be the larger toyota supercharged V6 with a manual. 

I'm not technical enough to know if the Audi engines are set up the same as the AMG, but I would think one of them would be possible.  As far as weight, I doubt the Audi engines would be any heavier than the Toyota 3.5, so I doubt that would be an issue.  I just simply think like I said above Mercedes doesn't make anything that competes with this directly, and they have a long history of providing engines to other makers, where as VAG group don't have nearly the history of sharing/developing with a rival company.

You should see the manual transmission inside the cabin.  It's a mechanical engineers wet dream, with exposed mechanisms and all steel.  This is really going to be one of the last truly special drivers cars ever made.  Luckily Lotus has a history of selling their models for like a decade, so there will be plenty of time to save up to buy one before they are discontinued.

[Triple Bob]

I was looking at Lotus Exige with the Toyota/Yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine. There are two in the country and they're going for $78,000 and $79,000. 

Mine cost £33K when I bought it new, same price as a reasonably spec'd 3-series, or a Subaru Impreza.

[rrocket]

I was looking at Lotus Exige with the Toyota/Yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine. There are two in the country and they're going for $78,000 and $79,000. 

Mine cost £33K when I bought it new, same price as a reasonably spec'd 3-series, or a Subaru Impreza.

Too bad the price here was about $60k...in 2006.


Check this new car built in the spirit of the Lotus!

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/07/08/uk-built-wells-vertige-is-an-enthusiasts-lightweight-dream-come-true/#slide-2332418

[PJungnitsch]

That's about the same price, conversion-wise

The three series, OTOH, would have been almost half that here at the time.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/canada/article/detail/T0025219EN/bmw-canada-announces-2006-model-year-lineup-and-pricing-seven-new-bmw-offerings-for-canada-eleven-models-now-with-xdrive?language=en

Car importers nicknamed Britain 'Treasure Island' for a reason

[JohnnyMac]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

[OliverD]

Just get a lightly used one.

[JohnnyMac]

Just get a lightly used one.

You expect there to be a lightly used one that is maximum 2 years old on the market for a decent enough discount to justify going used?

[PoweredSilenceGT]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

Why not just get a base Cayman? You're not tracking it much and with traffic laws these days a base Cayman should be more than fast for your use case.

[valuator]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

Why not just get a base Cayman? You're not tracking it much and with traffic laws these days a base Cayman should be more than fast for your use case.

Nothing wrong with a Cayman, but the Emira feels more special/exotic.  It's the car people are going to ask you about when you're in a parking lot.  Let's face it, all any of us really need is a Civic.  So once you get your head around the fact that $85,000 sports cars are basically frivolous, you should buy the one that stirs your soul.  And for some people that may be the Cayman, who knows....

[Shorlaw]

I had the same feelings when I got the Vette, it was VERY hard for me to justify spending the money after being so focused on saving, investing, etc.  I haven’t even for one second regretted it, but the thing that helped me get past it mentally was convincing myself that you’re not spending $85k on a dream, that money isn’t suddenly gone, you still have an asset (just a depreciating one!).  If your situation changes and you need to sell in 2-3 years you may be out 10-15K, that’s the actual amount spent on your dream, not 85K.  If someone wants to poke holes in that “logic”, I don’t want to hear it, it worked for me! 

[JohnnyMac]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

Why not just get a base Cayman? You're not tracking it much and with traffic laws these days a base Cayman should be more than fast for your use case.

Nothing wrong with a Cayman, but the Emira feels more special/exotic.  It's the car people are going to ask you about when you're in a parking lot.  Let's face it, all any of us really need is a Civic.  So once you get your head around the fact that $85,000 sports cars are basically frivolous, you should buy the one that stirs your soul.  And for some people that may be the Cayman, who knows....

If the Cayman S came with the same engine as the GTS and had hydraulic steering I'd for sure consider it.  But this Lotus is so unique, no other vehicle I can think of has hydraulic steering, manual, supercharged engine, and is this light (even though it is slightly heavier than the Cayman).

I just couldn't buy a Porsche sports car without a boxer 6 cylinder engine in it.  The new turbo 4's do absolutely nothing for me.

[JohnnyMac]

I had the same feelings when I got the Vette, it was VERY hard for me to justify spending the money after being so focused on saving, investing, etc.  I haven’t even for one second regretted it, but the thing that helped me get past it mentally was convincing myself that you’re not spending $85k on a dream, that money isn’t suddenly gone, you still have an asset (just a depreciating one!).  If your situation changes and you need to sell in 2-3 years you may be out 10-15K, that’s the actual amount spent on your dream, not 85K.  If someone wants to poke holes in that “logic”, I don’t want to hear it, it worked for me! 

For sure a great way to look at it.  I'll literally never be underwater on the vehicle too as I'd be trading in my GLI and putting a minimum of $20K down payment on it.  Plus if it's anything like the other Lotus it doesn't exactly depreciate to the same degree as other normal cars. 

[Triple Bob]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

I 100% agree, this is something special. I doubt I'll ever own one, but we'll see.

[JohnnyMac]

So would this be the type of vehicle someone could call a "dream car"?  I've been watching some first drive videos and I'm totally in love.  I'm scrambling trying to figure out a way that I could possibly justify buying this in 3 years.  It's a struggle though as I'm so financially responsible and don't usually justify costly expenditures.  But maybe if I could convince myself and my wife (that's key) that it would be the one time in my life that I would splurge on my dream maybe I could justify it.  Would require some added savings over the next couple of years of course.  The price of this Emira would have to be in line with the Porsche Cayman S, so likely no more than $85,000 CAD (that might be a bit of a stretch).  I don't think I could drive such a vehicle in the winter, so I'd have to have some money left over for a winter beater, and it would have to be a true beater as I wouldn't have much money left over.

Now here's where everyone should be talking me out of this.  I don't own a garage, so it'd have to be stored in the winter.  I have never tracked a vehicle and likely wouldn't do that very often or ever in the Emira.  I'd mostly just drive it to work and back, some back roads on the weekends, and some planned road trips.  So likely maximum of around 6,000kms per year.  The closest dealer I think is in Quebec so minimum of like 8 hours away.  Oh and it'll likely mean our mortgage won't be getting the planned lump sum payment in a few years time so it'll take a year or more longer to pay that off.  Am I crazy for even considering this?

I 100% agree, this is something special. I doubt I'll ever own one, but we'll see.

I really think in 10 years time we will look back and say that this Emira was the last best drivers car sold in the world.  I love Porsche also, but they have continued to follow the trends of adding electronic steering, downsizing engines, adding turbos, and slowly phasing out manuals.

[OliverD]

Just get a lightly used one.

You expect there to be a lightly used one that is maximum 2 years old on the market for a decent enough discount to justify going used?

I dunno, but Lotus isn't known for stellar resale value.

[JohnnyMac]

Just get a lightly used one.

You expect there to be a lightly used one that is maximum 2 years old on the market for a decent enough discount to justify going used?

I dunno, but Lotus isn't known for stellar resale value.

Find me examples of 2 year old Lotus that has depreciation that you would consider worth going for? 

[evil_twin]

Just get a lightly used one.

You expect there to be a lightly used one that is maximum 2 years old on the market for a decent enough discount to justify going used?

I dunno, but Lotus isn't known for stellar resale value.

Find me examples of 2 year old Lotus that has depreciation that you would consider worth going for?

This may be your point, but....how many cars has Lotus even sold in Canada over the last 2 years??   40-50?    Canada is basically a non-existent market for Lotus sales.

[JohnnyMac]

Just get a lightly used one.

You expect there to be a lightly used one that is maximum 2 years old on the market for a decent enough discount to justify going used?

I dunno, but Lotus isn't known for stellar resale value.

Find me examples of 2 year old Lotus that has depreciation that you would consider worth going for?

This may be your point, but....how many cars has Lotus even sold in Canada over the last 2 years??   40-50?    Canada is basically a non-existent market for Lotus sales.

Exactly, it's a very small number of vehicles and would be incredibly lucky to find a two year old Emira 3 years from now with the engine and transmission that I want and have even 10% depreciation.  Hence why buying new would be the only feasible way of getting one.  I would likely have to order it at least a year in advance and give a sizable deposit.  But building a green one with silver rims and brown interior is just about the most gorgeous vehicle you could buy new.

[rrocket]

What's your fascination with "2 years old"?

Like this car 3 or 4 years old is suddenly a turd not worth owning?

[JohnnyMac]

Doing so looking at what the Lotus pricing was in 2020 and trying to figure out what to expect for Canada.  So the 2020 Evora was 85,900 pound sterling and in the U.S. It was $96,950 USD.  So by no means will it mean a 60,000 pound price tag mean a Canadian price of $103,700 CAD price.  So I'm going to keep dreaming and hoping the price will be close to my imaginary number of $85,000 for our market.