Author Topic: Compact SUV Decisons  (Read 6793 times)

Online JohnnyMac

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2018, 08:52:58 am »
If AWD cars are an option then I'll second the suggestion of a AWD Golf Sportwagen.  Subaru makes a couple of decent AWD sedans in the Imprezza and Legacy.  The Ford Fusion can be had with AWD but it's getting very long in the tooth.

But if you want something that has a bit of power, is fun to drive, and has probably the best resale value of anything other than a Toyota Tacoma, I'd tell you to consider a Subaru WRX.  If manual is not your thing they do offer it with an automatic now and I've heard it's a pretty good one (even if it's a CVT). 

Offline Noto

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2018, 12:56:39 pm »
For what it's worth, peacefulpigeon, I am an occasional contributor - usually with the CUV comparison tests.  We have a bunch of them out - e.g.

http://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20170510/comparison-test-2017-compact-suvs-part-1-35-000/

http://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20170515/comparison-test-2017-compact-suvs-part-2-40-000/

...but the reason why there's no one best 'vehicle' out there is because different folks have different priorities.
So I want a SUV/CUV because I really want the all wheel drive.
I don't have kids - do not anticipate any soon, so that's why cargo space is meh.
So, based on the above, I understand yours to be AWD (and by extension, maybe ground clearance?).  You want something reasonably inexpensive to buy and operate, that is also 'reliable'.  Reliability is an interesting term these days...some cars will have issues, but they may not be exhibited until after 150,000km.  Most (if not all) new cars will be fairly trouble-free so long as you maintain them well and treat them with some respect (i.e. not posting YouTube videos of shenanigans or doing mods you have no expertise in doing - like changing the brakes on a 2011 Forester XT... ;D).

What is the issue with the Hyundai DCT transmission? 
My thoughts are listed in the second link above:
Quote
Second only to the CR-V in fuel economy, the 1.6L turbo paired with the seven-speed DCT was shockingly good at using minimum gas without making us feel like we were driving a slug. Noah Shapiro was astounded. “When did the Koreans learn to turbocharge so well?” he cried. “It was so smooth, unlike Honda's 1.5T.”

He went on to bemoan the jerkiness of the seven-speed DCT off the line, but I found myself enamoured with its positive response to a hefty prod of the accelerator pedal.
I am told that Hyundai has addressed the problem, but I am also told that it's not completely gone.  The concern is with low-speed operation (i.e. when you're stopped and press the gas pedal, there's hesitation before you get movement.  I found it very concerning, but I haven't driven a unit recently to see if there are any changes).  You'll have to test-drive one for yourself to determine if you're OK with its operation, but the engine is a thing of beauty and has been around since at least 2013 - it's a good mill.

Since you're driving in the hills, you may want something that is turbocharged - less affected by altitude (air thinning) than naturally-aspirated engines.

Honda's 1.5T is a bit gruff in the CR-V, but it returns fantastic fuel economy and is far from 'slow'.  It's a decent little motor.  I personally was not enamored by the CR-V, but you may be.  Give it a test drive.

The Crosstrek may prove too 'pokey' and slow for you.

Honestly, take a look at a Subaru Legacy.  I quite like it as an AWD sedan and found that it's a great value for the price.  The 3.6R will be quicker, but uses more gas (obviously) and is pricier to buy.  You won't be hurting for cargo space unless you move bigger boxes in any event.  Tons of space inside.

The Ford Fusion is also a great little ride, albeit getting older (that just means you can get better deals on it).  Same idea with the Escape - a great little 'ute, but also getting a bit older.  Read in the second link above (it came in 9th place, but that was mostly because of the option package sent to us, which raised its price without justification and hurt its "value" score).

Honestly, check out the new Hyundai Kona - brand new model, comes with the 1.6T, smaller, more nimble, and is different/new.

I wouldn't be so worried about buying "new model years" since the cars come with warranties.  If they end up being "lemons", offload it just before the warranty expires and try again - worrying about the unknowns may save you money, or it may not.  Do not buy extended warranties unless they're really discounted (I got a 7 year ECP for my old Corolla for $599 - unheard of, but that was the 'deal' they offered that day).

I think the Kona is a good idea for you.  Loaded, it's only $31k and offers a lot of really good features.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2018, 01:20:54 pm »
I think the Kona is a good idea for you.  Loaded, it's only $31k and offers a lot of really good features.
that would be a good match for me too...my only concern would be the DCT...i'd have to drive it to see how it behaves...personally, i usually prefer regular automatics first (conventional torque converter style)...i'd likely be fine with a modern CVT as there are a few really good ones out there now...VW group's DSG seems to be among the best, but they've also been doing it for something like 15 years now...maybe Hyundai bought a DSG, stripped it down, and did a copy/paste.   :D
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Offline Noto

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 01:31:04 pm »
I saw a Kona in Guelph a few days ago - in silver/grey.  Looked more normal than I would have expected :P

Again, the DCT has been recalibrated and other testers didn't seem to find it disheartening...Keep in mind also that DCTs aren't "unreliable", but different.  I.e. it won't cost you more money (necessarily...unless it's a VW DSG :P), you just have to be OK with its different operation than you're accustomed to.

https://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20180326/first-drive-2018-hyundai-kona/

Quote
Ultimately, the 1.6T is a far better powerplant and drivetrain. It’s not only faster, but it’s noticeably less harsh, quieter, smoother, and it produces equivalent fuel economy to the 2.0L. My one criticism is of the DCT. As is typical of these transmissions, the Kona’s seven-speed is a tad hesitant and awkward at low speed. Specifically, the sort of low-speed maneuvering you do in a tight condo parking spot. It’s better when the ground is flat, and more pronounced when there’s a gradient to get around.

That’s the trade-off. The DCT performs flawlessly out on the road, and lights up when hustled, but I often wonder if the DCT is selected more to please us enthusiasts and may actually be the poorer choice for this segment. I’m not saying I don’t love it (I do), but a brief read of any Ford Focus forum will show you that many a commuter-car consumer find DCTs onerous.

Offline peacefulpigeon

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 02:43:07 pm »
Thanks for all the input guys, looks like lots of cars to test and try.

I have read a bit more about the DCT, it seems like very black and white for people.  People that drive manual loved it and people that drove auto hated it.  I have driven auto all my limited life and love to do rolling stop/starts, inching in traffic, sudden acceleration/braking when needed.  Will be interesting driving the DCT for sure. and my budget is about 30-40k. 

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 02:52:28 pm »
Thanks for all the input guys, looks like lots of cars to test and try.

I have read a bit more about the DCT, it seems like very black and white for people.  People that drive manual loved it and people that drove auto hated it.  I have driven auto all my limited life and love to do rolling stop/starts, inching in traffic, sudden acceleration/braking when needed.  Will be interesting driving the DCT for sure. and my budget is about 30-40k.

I know the first version of the 1.6t dct tuscon used to have problems in dtop and go traffic. They used to overheat but that was on 2016 models.  I havent read much lately on them but i would assume the newer one would be fixed.   

Offline Noto

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 02:54:16 pm »
The DCT will be incredibly responsive once moving - and will inch forward at idle speeds with your foot off the brake.

...you just have to experience it to decide for yourself.  The Tucson 1.6T we tested in 2017 was quite a bit worse than Ford's DCT behaviour, but I'm told that has been rectified.

...just make sure that if you are considering buying a 1.6T Kona or Tucson that you test drive a vehicle with that engine and NOT one with the lesser.  Dealers sometimes try to shield craptastic faults by having only the 'poster child' trim available to test.

It certainly sounds like the Kona 1.6T is for you if the DCT does not deter you.

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2018, 03:01:26 pm »
Thanks for all the input guys, looks like lots of cars to test and try.

I have read a bit more about the DCT, it seems like very black and white for people.  People that drive manual loved it and people that drove auto hated it.  I have driven auto all my limited life and love to do rolling stop/starts, inching in traffic, sudden acceleration/braking when needed.  Will be interesting driving the DCT for sure. and my budget is about 30-40k.
What a used NX300h
https://ca.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePage_false_0&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2294&zip=K9a+3e3#listing=204864754

Offline Noto

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2018, 03:35:26 pm »
^^ you think he's going to want to incur the cost of Lexus maintenance?

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2018, 03:39:39 pm »
^^ you think he's going to want to incur the cost of Lexus maintenance?

Cost would be the same as a RAV4
I will taking our RX to Toyota dealer for service

Offline peacefulpigeon

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 11:12:00 am »
Test drove the 1.6t yesterday, and it's a fun SUV despite being a dct. So tempted.

Offline EV-Light

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 01:42:41 pm »
Fair warning: Hyundai did not address the DCT issue - the refreshed 19’ Tucson doesn’t even offer it anymore. Hyundai was smarter than Ford (Focus and Fiesta) on this one....

DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.


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Offline Noto

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2018, 02:28:50 pm »
^^ you think he's going to want to incur the cost of Lexus maintenance?

Cost would be the same as a RAV4
I will taking our RX to Toyota dealer for service
Absolutely :censor:.

We had an RX and a Corolla. Both serviced at Toyota. Prices were absolutely not the same, and the Toyota dealer often refused to do Lexus work beyond an oil change.  DVNL and DVNT are attached. They have an agreement that the Toyota service centre on site isn't allowed to do Lexus models.

Wietzes Toyota would do some, but not all work on Lexii.

Canadian Tire doesn't give a :censor: what you drive - they'll take anything and charge based on how complicated the work is.

Offline peacefulpigeon

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2018, 07:23:01 pm »



I am looking for your input and if other cars should be considered?
RAV4 -> Did not test drive since heard it is lackluster
CR-V -> 1.5T engine.  Worried about power.
Nissan -> reliability
Subaru -> never driven one

Drive it yourself and see.  Just because someone else doesn't like it...doesn't mean you won't.  It's a best seller for a reason....because people generally like it!

Tested the Crosstrek today - Loved it.  It feels very much like a CX-3 but only maybe a very aggressive throttle. Too bad no discounts on Cx3 or Crosstrek - and it's easy to see why.

Offline dkaz

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2018, 07:41:31 pm »
Fair warning: Hyundai did not address the DCT issue - the refreshed 19’ Tucson doesn’t even offer it anymore. Hyundai was smarter than Ford (Focus and Fiesta) on this one....

DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.

People not only don't want manual transmission, they also don't want something that feels like a manual transmission I guess.

Tested the Crosstrek today - Loved it.  It feels very much like a CX-3 but only maybe a very aggressive throttle. Too bad no discounts on Cx3 or Crosstrek - and it's easy to see why.

The CX-3 is so tiny though.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2018, 07:53:59 pm »
DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.


The VAG DSG seems to be the exception. I really really like mine.
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Offline tpl

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2018, 08:21:57 pm »
DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.


The VAG DSG seems to be the exception. I really really like mine.
After driving manual for 40 years+,  5 years with the  VW DSG convinced me that an automated transmission was OK.  I didn't see a problem with the 64,000 km service and oil change interval but many people thought that was terribly onerous for some reason.
 
I notice that the new Q5 has a DSG.
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Offline G.Bombay

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2018, 08:37:56 pm »
DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.


The VAG DSG seems to be the exception. I really really like mine.
Agreed, VW DSG seems to be the exception. I also like mine but I wouldn't want it if I drove in stop and go conditions.

Offline EV-Light

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2018, 10:29:18 pm »
DCTs are weird regardless, if you start looking around you will see that most car makers  got rid of them - and there’s a reason why.


The VAG DSG seems to be the exception. I really really like mine.
Agreed, VW DSG seems to be the exception. I also like mine but I wouldn't want it if I drove in stop and go conditions.

Disagree...VW ones are a lot better but still act weird in certain situations - like stop n go traffic.


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Offline tortoise

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Re: Compact SUV Decisons
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2018, 11:11:04 pm »
I guess coming from a manual I don't find it that weird.

I don't ever do heavy stop and go but I can see how someone would prefer a torque converter over a DSG.  Just feeling that clutch always slipping at slow speeds would drive me nuts.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:15:58 pm by tortoise »