Author Topic: Best real-world winter vehicle  (Read 11390 times)

Offline theonlydt

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Best real-world winter vehicle
« on: March 28, 2017, 07:04:18 pm »
Every week I drive through the Cobequid Pass - a section of highway in Nova Scotia heading towards (or recently from) New Brunswick.

It's well known for being pretty brutal, even if the rest of the drive is clear you can find rain/sleet/ice/freezing rain/snow/wind/fog on the Cobequid, and often all of them at the same time. In June.

Yesterday the weather was pretty rough - it was a mixture of snow, freezing rain and ice pellets for my 450km drive. On this drive I often think about what the "perfect" vehicle would be. In good weather I lean towards hybrid/diesel sedan or station-wagon to keep fuel costs low.

However, I do this trip every week, and it's winter on the Cobequid for at least six months of the year. So, what do you think is the perfect winter vehicle for conditions like this? I'll lay out some assumptions to put some boundaries around it - then explain your choice and reasoning.

- Vehicle is on sale in North America (or has been)
- No tracked vehicles/snowmobiles etc
- Any vehicle would have winter tires (I'm currently on Xice3, but still long for my previous Hakks)
- Vehicle needs to be capable of handling the rest of a highway/city drive, including non-winter months
- Vehicle should balance practical considerations - fuel economy, interior room, comfort etc

My thoughts:
- AWD/4WD is a must, and given that speeds are often above 60kmh (I averaged 85kmh and was about average) I question the reaction time of "slip and grip" systems. You never fully know which side of the car, and where, the ice is going to be, or where the snow/slush is thickest. For this reason I'm leaning towards a vehicle with a viscous coupling - something like Subaru/Audi. How good are the best systems from Acura, Volvo and others at ensuring straight-line progress in the worst conditions?

- Auto/manual - I love my manual - and want the control. I use engine braking in bad conditions. Additionally for a Subaru only the manuals still come with the viscous coupling - there have been some rough reviews from Subaru fans on the ATS system.

- Car/SUV/Truck - Surely this is a balance between ground clearance, and a low centre of gravity? Therefore a raised station wagon/sedan is likely the best bet? (Golf Alltrack, Subaru Crosstrek/Outback, Audi A4 allroad, Volvo V60 Cross Country etc).

- Visibility - The Cobequid can be awful - a raised seating position seems to help, as would good headlights. Coming back to the CUV/SUV.

- Comfort - Quiet? Good ride quality?

- Fuel economy - Hybrids do well on the pass - lots of hills for the motor to kick in, then regenerate holding speed on the downhill. Almost all hybrids are automatics. Something like a Highlander automatic?

Other considerations? - does a longer wheelbase help (for example, V60 vs V90, or Crosstrek versus Outback).

From what I see the vehicles moving the fastest are always F150s and RAM 1500s. Often 110-120kmh even in bad conditions. Full-time 4wd must give more confidence, along with the ability to use aggressive tires (not always good on ice) - but isn't the weight and centre of gravity of the vehicle going to cause problems? Are they going quicker because they're better, or because the owners have more confidence?

My pick from all the above? Subaru Outback 2.5 manual. (If anyone wants to give me one to replace my Mazda5 I'd be appreciative).

My back-ups: Audi A4 Allroad, Volvo V60 Cross Country

What's your pick and rationale?

Offline tortoise

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 07:28:29 pm »
Range Rover. Full stop.

Comfy, ground clearance and road hugging weight.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 07:32:06 pm »
Range Rover. Full stop.

Comfy, ground clearance and road hugging weight.

And always at the dealership for service.

No thanks.
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Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 07:33:41 pm »
Range Rover. Full stop.

Comfy, ground clearance and road hugging weight.

So weight is a good thing? I did think about Range Rover/Landrover products, but mostly discount due to cost and perceived reliability.

With more money than sense I'm sure you'd see me waft by in a LWB Rangie Autobiography (I think "HSE" would be more appropriate, but apparently not on the LWB).

Offline dkaz

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 07:35:56 pm »
Best winter vehicle I've personally owned...


Offline BWII

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 08:08:12 pm »
Blah blah blah...TL;DR...

Like Miata is always the answer...to your question, if you're thinking Vulva/Ranch Rover money...there is only 1 answer in your circumstances:


Raptor FTW!  O0

Offline tenpenny

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 08:12:33 pm »

I used to do approx 5,000 km a month, covering from Edmundston NB to Sydney NS.  I've driven that pass countless times.

Subaru Outback with proper tires ( I used Michelins because they were a customer).  Excellent winter handling, yet low and stable enough to enjoy the back roads from Truro to Windsor at extremely high speeds.



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Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 08:27:07 pm »

I used to do approx 5,000 km a month, covering from Edmundston NB to Sydney NS.  I've driven that pass countless times.

Subaru Outback with proper tires ( I used Michelins because they were a customer).  Excellent winter handling, yet low and stable enough to enjoy the back roads from Truro to Windsor at extremely high speeds.



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That's quite the drive - did you risk the 108 in the winter? I did it a couple of times, white-knuckled the entire thing (frost heave, ice, 18 wheelers).

That's about twice the distance I drive - ugh. (I find anything over 3 hours a little onerous).

Interesting you back up thoughts on Subaru Outback. Were there any other vehicles you saw that performed well in the pass? In the Annapolis valley this winter and was shocked at the number of latest generation Pathfinders caked in salt and mud - was surprised with CVT and low ground clearance they were popular in the backcountry. (Valley backcountry, not the wilds of CB!)

Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 08:27:48 pm »
Grand Cherokee diesel is what I'd get or Pentastar if not doing much mileage.

What makes the Grand Cherokee better than alternative large SUVs for those conditions?

Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 08:30:29 pm »
Blah blah blah...TL;DR...

Like Miata is always the answer...to your question, if you're thinking Vulva/Ranch Rover money...there is only 1 answer in your circumstances:

Raptor FTW!  O0

If laying out that much cash I'd want something to protect my walnut gun cabinet and drinks tray from the elements.



Of course in the back woods of NB/NS you're far more likely to see a Rapor with a couple of gun cases than a Range Rover...

Offline blur911

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 10:45:37 pm »
The answer is always....Cayenne.  ;D

Actually, I might vote Outback in this case.
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 11:26:04 pm »
Winter/ rural/ highway  Size matters.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 12:38:22 am »
The pick ups are going fast because the owners are stupid. Most of them do t have AWD systems.

Your list is all trade offs. If you want clearance and great AWD and ridiculous anywhere ability, the Limited trim 4Runner is one of the best poor condition vehicles on the planet. It has a true 4x4 system as well as AWD

Add in Toyota reliability and insane resale, and the high purchase price isn't as bad as it looks.

Offline G.Bombay

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 01:57:13 am »
I have read that the Ridgeline is excellent in snow.

Offline Factger

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 07:54:00 am »
Ford edge. Real tank in snow. My wife works 12 hr shifts and comes home in the worst storms at night (10 pm). Ours has 176000 km on it now. Been to the dealer once. Meanwhile my ford focus is the worst thing I ever had in snow but tires play a factor in that. (10.5 l/100km summer, 11.2l/100km winter)

Offline SKYMTL

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 08:37:34 am »

Offline Mike

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 09:02:21 am »
I was going to say Crosstrek manual, but I can't argue with your original choice.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 09:47:38 am »
Gmt400 era GMC/Chevrolet K1500 with a set of studded Goodyear Duratracs. Reliable as a chunk of granite, cheap and easy to fix if anything ever goes wrong, good ground clearance and the vast of them came with a Gov-Loc rear locker.

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Lighten up Francis.....

Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2017, 06:12:09 pm »
I was going to say Crosstrek manual, but I can't argue with your original choice.

So I thought about this, and the trade off is the crosstrek is lighter, but shorter wheelbase. So I figure a wash there. Then outback is more comfortable, but worse fuel economy.

The only reason it wasn't on my list is that I havean irrational hatred of cars with 5 speed manuals when they should have 6.

Offline theonlydt

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Re: Best real-world winter vehicle
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 06:13:07 pm »
Your list is all trade offs. If you want clearance and great AWD and ridiculous anywhere ability, the Limited trim 4Runner is one of the best poor condition vehicles on the planet. It has a true 4x4 system as well as AWD

Add in Toyota reliability and insane resale, and the high purchase price isn't as bad as it looks.

That's a great choice.