Author Topic: Is mainstream car audio dying?  (Read 5233 times)

Online Great_Big_Abyss

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Is mainstream car audio dying?
« on: April 26, 2017, 08:55:06 pm »
So, let's just be clear.  I have never been into car audio.  The extent of my experience involves buying cheap decks and having them installed in vehicles that didn't come with CD players.  Typically my first few vehicles, back when I was young and poor. 

However, in the late nineties and early to mid-2000's, I definitely remember seeing a TON of cars with aftermarket decks, and quite a bit with amps and upgraded speakers.  Now, this may have to do with my age at the time (late teens, early twenties) and the crowds I hung out with.  I'm noticing them a lot less these days though.  And the reason?

I think it's because new car audio systems (screw that, they're multimedia interfaces now) are so integrated into the cars, as to be almost irreplaceable.  Plus, they're not half bad.  These days, most new cars all have Bluetooth and USB inputs.  Most vehicles have some form of voice activation.  Currently the trend is to integrate vehicle systems (like climate control and heated seats) into the vehicle's entertainment system. 

Will the aftermarket audio scene eventually die out?  Surely one day there will be zero demand from it, aside from the fringe...

Offline rrocket

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 09:01:23 pm »
Car audio systems are acoustically matched to the specific interior of some cars.

Mark Levinson rejected requests from other car makers because he didn't feel like they offered a good enough soundstage befitting of his name...until the very quiet Lexus came out. He even made Lexus redo seats and foam as it inhibited the sound quality.

I suspect other OE systems have that same attention to detail....Which might be very hard to replicate in an aftermarket system
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Offline Cord

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 09:29:39 pm »
The number of trade-ins that I see with aftermarket audio systems is practically zero.
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Offline CanuckS2K

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 09:38:09 pm »
The number of trade-ins that I see with aftermarket audio systems is practically zero.

Not surprised one bit.  I can't imagine wanting/needing to replace the OEM HU in pretty much any new car. 
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Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 09:40:18 pm »
us grey-market importers of foreign-market cars depend on the aftermarket. We on the fringe hope audio solutions for our weird cars keep being made.

But yeah, for the majority, there is no need unless you are 16 and you bought your first Honda Civic - that thing needs a massive sound system that shakes the doors off and a giant fart can. Sure panty-droppers no doubt.

New cars? Nope, no need at all. They are miles better than they used to be.
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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 10:17:22 pm »
30 years ago almost everyone I knew had the factory audio system torn out right after taking delivery of their new car.  Today, I don't know one person that does that.  And it's not because we're old - it's because the systems are far better and the OE systems are now also integrated into the entire car.

The aftermarket car audio market must be shrinking.

Offline Firm

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 10:35:17 pm »
I agree with everything said here. The market is definitely shrinking, and the biggest driver of that is the dramatically improved quality of factory sound systems, and the additional integration and complexity that makes a straight swap out nearly impossible.

I used to be mildly into it, and still have (now old-school) aftermarket subs, amps, etc in my Sonoma and the 96 Firebird....The systems are still running well 10 years later, and I still enjoy cranking some bass every once and awhile. Point is, I haven't touched audio stuff in years, until recently when I needed to replace the dash speakers in the T/A, went on Crutchfield, saw stuff that looks essentially identical to what I used to play around with 10 years ago, ordered what I needed and carried on. The market seems to have stagnated; very little innovation or excitement to entice me to "want" to upgrade something.

Offline mmret

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 10:44:52 pm »
I also wonder if there is a move in all mainstream audio towards greater simplification.

Old model....you go to the store and buy a 5.1 system with an AV receiver to go with your Laserdisc/DVD/BR player. Gigantic mess of wires everywhere.

New model...:censor: it just get a soundbar and stream netflix with the built in app on your TV. Also your soundbar has Bluetooth to stream direct from phone.


The New model has a lot less wires.

Could just be me though.
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Offline Mike

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 08:53:34 am »
Yup as people said, there are three main reasons

1) A lot of audio systems also include other functions like climate control and vehicle settings.
2) The rise of built-in smart phone integration like CarPlay and Android Auto make it even less desirable to replace the audio unit
3) Most audio units aren't just a square insert into the dash anymore that can be easily replaced. A lot are integrated into the vehicle's design.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 10:27:27 am »
And young people tended to be the ones putting in aftermarket stereos.

As young people start losing interest in car ownership the market will shrink accordingly.
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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 10:31:17 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.
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Offline OliverD

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 10:45:17 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.

Who says they don't? As mentioned above, OEM audio systems have improved a lot.

Online Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 10:56:57 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.

Here is the thing, even cheaper cars that are less than 5 years old have decent radios.  I'm thinking here cars like Honda Civic, Elantra, etc.  Certainly they have all the inputs you would require such as Bluetooth, AUX jacks, USB inputs, etc.  Fifteen years ago, you could only get that stuff by installing an aftermarket deck.  That was the primary reason I installed a deck in my 2003 Civic, way back when.  I wanted to attach my iPod to it.  When I bought my 2008 Civic SI, and it had an AUX jack on it, I didn't feel the need to upgrade the sound system as I could play my digital library.  The same went for my Altima, and now my Grand Caravan has a built in DVD Player, Hard Drive, Aux Jack, USB Input, and Bluetooth.  So many ways to get music from my phone to the car (I usually use Bluetooth to stream Spotify these days). 

So, from an input perspective, even going back almost 10 years there is no reason to switch out decks. 

So what about sound quality?  Well, that's a different story.  Surely, the sound system in my van is shite.  I agree completely with that.  But the thing is, good sound would be wasted.  The van has plenty of wind and road noise, lots of vibrations, and the sliding doors creak every time we go over bumps.  Putting in a whopping good sound system with the aim of excellent sound quality would be completely lost on this van.  The same goes (probably to a lesser extent) for most other cheaper cars out there.  They aren't quiet enough to appreciate a decent sound system, let alone audiophile grade.  And the cars that are quiet enough to be able to appreciate good sound, i.e. all the German cars, Lexus, Infiniti, etc, all usually come with a good sound system from the factory.  I.e. Lexus and Mark Levinson.  Or VW and Fender, or whatever. 

And then we circle around to the integration.  Most vehicles in the last 3 years have integrated their head units beyond belief.  Everything from controlling climate control, heated seats, to steering wheel buttons and rearview cameras.  If I were to replace the deck in my Grand Caravan with an aftermarket one, I would lose all of my steering wheel buttons (which I find indispensable), and possibly my rear view camera.  The latest U-Connect head units control heated seats and tons of other stuff.  My mom's Land Rover can access the entire vehicle setup menus in the head-unit.  She can do everything from check tire pressures to vehicle settings, everything.  The integration is such that if you replace the head-unit, half the features of your car are rendered inoperable and useless. 

Fair enough, this problem of integration is a fairly recent thing.  If you buy a 10 year old or even 5 year old used car, the head unit probably isn't fully integrated yet.  But then you circle around to the NEED to upgrade the head unit.  It just isn't worth it, as you don't gain any extra usability.  The only vehicles that I could imagine somebody NEEDING to upgrade the head-unit on, would be a vehicle that is older than 10 years old, and then it's to gain accessibility above and beyond CD's, such as Bluetooth, USB input, etc. 

Then we have the young people and their booming stereos.  I suppose, that considering most young people buying a first car that is 10 years old or older could see some value in self expression by installing a head unit and amps, etc.  And they would gain some usability from that by having increased input options, etc.  But there will come a time when the youth of tomorrow are buying their first cars, and those first cars will be 10 year old 2016 Civics and Elantras, which already have pretty good sound systems, and are fully integrated. And those youth will have zero interest in ripping out a head unit, as it will provide zero benefit to do so.  And then the aftermarket car audio industry will have died.

Offline Mike

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 11:03:33 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.

Who says they don't? As mentioned above, OEM audio systems have improved a lot.

Exactly, it isn't they don't care about in-car audio. In fact, people care a lot more about in-car audio today then they used to. On surveys infotainment is always near the top. That is why manufacturers have really upped their game in recent years.

Offline carcrazed

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2017, 11:10:39 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.

Here is the thing, even cheaper cars that are less than 5 years old have decent radios.  I'm thinking here cars like Honda Civic, Elantra, etc.  Certainly they have all the inputs you would require such as Bluetooth, AUX jacks, USB inputs, etc.  Fifteen years ago, you could only get that stuff by installing an aftermarket deck.  That was the primary reason I installed a deck in my 2003 Civic, way back when.  I wanted to attach my iPod to it.  When I bought my 2008 Civic SI, and it had an AUX jack on it, I didn't feel the need to upgrade the sound system as I could play my digital library.  The same went for my Altima, and now my Grand Caravan has a built in DVD Player, Hard Drive, Aux Jack, USB Input, and Bluetooth.  So many ways to get music from my phone to the car (I usually use Bluetooth to stream Spotify these days). 

So, from an input perspective, even going back almost 10 years there is no reason to switch out decks. 

So what about sound quality?  Well, that's a different story.  Surely, the sound system in my van is shite.  I agree completely with that.  But the thing is, good sound would be wasted.  The van has plenty of wind and road noise, lots of vibrations, and the sliding doors creak every time we go over bumps.  Putting in a whopping good sound system with the aim of excellent sound quality would be completely lost on this van.  The same goes (probably to a lesser extent) for most other cheaper cars out there.  They aren't quiet enough to appreciate a decent sound system, let alone audiophile grade.  And the cars that are quiet enough to be able to appreciate good sound, i.e. all the German cars, Lexus, Infiniti, etc, all usually come with a good sound system from the factory.  I.e. Lexus and Mark Levinson.  Or VW and Fender, or whatever. 

And then we circle around to the integration.  Most vehicles in the last 3 years have integrated their head units beyond belief.  Everything from controlling climate control, heated seats, to steering wheel buttons and rearview cameras.  If I were to replace the deck in my Grand Caravan with an aftermarket one, I would lose all of my steering wheel buttons (which I find indispensable), and possibly my rear view camera.  The latest U-Connect head units control heated seats and tons of other stuff.  My mom's Land Rover can access the entire vehicle setup menus in the head-unit.  She can do everything from check tire pressures to vehicle settings, everything.  The integration is such that if you replace the head-unit, half the features of your car are rendered inoperable and useless. 

Fair enough, this problem of integration is a fairly recent thing.  If you buy a 10 year old or even 5 year old used car, the head unit probably isn't fully integrated yet.  But then you circle around to the NEED to upgrade the head unit.  It just isn't worth it, as you don't gain any extra usability.  The only vehicles that I could imagine somebody NEEDING to upgrade the head-unit on, would be a vehicle that is older than 10 years old, and then it's to gain accessibility above and beyond CD's, such as Bluetooth, USB input, etc. 

Then we have the young people and their booming stereos.  I suppose, that considering most young people buying a first car that is 10 years old or older could see some value in self expression by installing a head unit and amps, etc.  And they would gain some usability from that by having increased input options, etc.  But there will come a time when the youth of tomorrow are buying their first cars, and those first cars will be 10 year old 2016 Civics and Elantras, which already have pretty good sound systems, and are fully integrated. And those youth will have zero interest in ripping out a head unit, as it will provide zero benefit to do so.  And then the aftermarket car audio industry will have died.

 :iagree: Well said.

For me, I added a bluetooth audio streaming adapter for $20 for my MDX since it only had bluetooth phone capability, which actually stopped working a little while ago.
I still use the MP3 CDs for my classical music and kids' music, and the DVD system for the rear has served us VERY well, much more than I had imagined.

Online Fobroader

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2017, 11:11:37 am »
Since I cannot afford anything with a Mark Levinson audio system, the vast amount of cars I can afford have absolute shite for radios. I would much rather something aftermarket, thats completely tunable with a small 10" sub in a box in the back of the car somewhere. Sad really that people do not care about music in their cars anymore.

Who says they don't? As mentioned above, OEM audio systems have improved a lot.

Exactly, it isn't they don't care about in-car audio. In fact, people care a lot more about in-car audio today then they used to. On surveys infotainment is always near the top. That is why manufacturers have really upped their game in recent years.

Thats more of a I want to connect my instagram to my stereo more than a sound quality worry.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2017, 11:15:12 am »
Through an odd set of circumstances, I became a partner in a retail car electronics chain in the 90s.  Business was pretty good - the remote car starter boom was in full swing and margins on those installs were excellent.  Dealers were scrambling to offer the product, but didn't want to do them in-house, so there was a terrific source of business for the remote starts.

Audio, on the other hand, was already showing signs of weakness in terms of a future.  We were already seeing better OEM systems and designs moving away from the DIN standard rectangle that made audio replacement/upgrade so easy.

Leasing was also starting to gain popularity, and people leasing didn't want to mod their cars.

I knew that the business had some legs as we were starting to do infotainment systems - offered in very few cars.  These installs had screens and nav systems and all the bells and whistles you expect today.  But, I knew it was only a matter of time until all those things were standard in all cars and highly integrated into the car's electronics system.  So in the early 2000s we closed up the breaking-even locations, beefed up the highly profitable main store, and sold it.  In less than 10 years, sure enough, the new owner finally saw the writing on the wall and closed the doors.  Luckily, he'd been astute and didn't blow the money he had made, and now has a very successful sports-wear business.

Offline random006

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2017, 11:37:43 am »
30 years ago almost everyone I knew had the factory audio system torn out right after taking delivery of their new car.  Today, I don't know one person that does that.  And it's not because we're old - it's because the systems are far better and the OE systems are now also integrated into the entire car.

The aftermarket car audio market must be shrinking.

Ditto.

The number of Pioneer, Jensen and Alpine decks I used to see were legion.  Now?  I can't remember the last car I saw with such gear.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2017, 11:39:24 am »
30 years ago almost everyone I knew had the factory audio system torn out right after taking delivery of their new car.  Today, I don't know one person that does that.  And it's not because we're old - it's because the systems are far better and the OE systems are now also integrated into the entire car.

The aftermarket car audio market must be shrinking.

Ditto.

The number of Pioneer, Jensen and Alpine decks I used to see were legion.  Now?  I can't remember the last car I saw with such gear.
The last time I put a deck in a car was my Honda Insight. And that's only because I wanted Bluetooth and hands-free call answering. It had nothing to do with audio quality

Offline dkaz

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Re: Is mainstream car audio dying?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2017, 11:59:22 am »
I'm considering getting a Carplay deck for my Mazda 3 to modernize it, but I know I'll be paying through the nose for installation, especially since I want the steering wheel controls to all still work.

Plus while the stereos in most economy cars are good enough these days, they lose clarity if you attempt to really crank it up. I'll likely amplify and upgrade the speakers at the same time to get the sound into premium car territory.