Topic: Mustang's Response to the Camaro 1LE?

[Fobroader]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

As for the Camaro SS 1LE to Mustang GT comparison I don't think there's a comparison. The 1LE is basically on par if not slightly better than the standard base GT350 and is about 8/10 to 9/10 a GT350R. The standard SS can be optioned with magnetic ride, recaros (new for 2018), the NPP exhaust, and some other things if you want to come in cheaper than the 1LE. The standard SS still wipes the floor with the Mustang GT performance wise. The new 2018 Mustang I'm sure closes that gap though.

The reason the Camaro (especially the 1LE) is more expensive is simply because of the awesome performance engineering in the car. Awesome chassis, eLSD, PTM, all the extra cooling, huge meats and forged rims, magnetic shocks, etc. This is all technology that blew our minds when it came out on the Ferrari F430 and now it can be had for $50K. These are items only available on the ZL1, 1LE, Corvette Z51, and Corvette Z06.

Sticker MSRP on mine (not what I paid) was $53K and change. I didn't get the PDR but I got the blacked out bowties and the extra swede kneepad package which are LPO options.

Again, I don't think there's a bad option on the muscle car front right now. We're in the golden age of muscle cars. It just depends what flavor you like.

Agreed....but....I just can't see justifying the other 2 over the current Camaro given all the reasons you note.  To each their own and all that, but if you're buying a 2-door RWD coupe, why compromise?

$53k (less credits) is a steal for what you're getting with the Camaro.

I've been a Mustang guy historically (and would still love a GT350 over an SS 1LE if the price disparity weren't so massive), but when push came to shove...I just can't see picking any 2-door over the SS 1LE at this price point.

Maybe the 2018 GT will change that thinking, but hard to envision them closing the gap enough.   The Alpha chassis and 6.2 litres are still missing....


(Don't kill yourself before the Sept boys weekend Vman)

I as well was in the Mustang camp...but you cannot deny how good the Camaro is when compared to its competition. Do I still think the Challenger is the best looking one of the bunch, absolutely, would I take a 392 over an SS, HELL TO THE NO. The Camaro is such a great performance per dollar bargain that presently nothing can touch it.

[BWII]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

It so happens that that same weekend Dodge was running its media campaign for the upcoming Roadkill Nights (because Roadkill...etc. etc. and Dodge sponsors Roadkill) and a bunch of snowflakes called Dodge out as being insensitive and "you should change I'm never buying a Dodge again ever - not that I did before because I'm so awesome I ride my 1 spd bike everywhere and besides my pretty beard and braids and man-bun and with my tight pants I wouldn't fit but I'm still never buying a Dodge EVER so you're a bunch of a-holes for supporting a Nazi extremist by selling hima car so he could drive over a girl and it's all your fault! Wah."...here...this is probably better than my run-on wordkill sentence.
http://jalopnik.com/dodge-deletes-roadkill-nights-posts-after-charlottesvil-1797895666
This past weekend, Heather Heyer died after being struck by a Dodge Challenger while counter-protesting white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia. That same weekend, in an epic case of unfortunate timing, Dodge tweeted about its big drag racing event in Michigan, “Roadkill Nights,” which drew heavy criticism on social media.

The killer / bigot probably wore shoes while driving that Challenger.  Shall we all go bare foot to eliminate the risk of assumed association?  Geez.

They were probably New Balance...Nazi's wear 'em. And drive Challengers.  Only.
https://mic.com/articles/159116/new-balance-faces-backlash-after-throwing-its-support-behind-president-elect-donald-trump#.5r7FrrRjs

I will NEVER buy New Balance shoes...(checks closet...shi#!! I'm not telling anyone if you don't)

Now, back to regularly scheduled Camaro drooling...

[Fobroader]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

The guy drove a Challenger into that crowd of people.

Thats quite the stretch, even for snowflakes......

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You guys are making it sound like the other two are DOA.

July (USA)
Camaro       4713
Challenger   5333
Mustang      6206

YTD (USA)
Camaro       41280
Challenger   41243
Mustang      50814

I'd have to try the new Camaro to see. The last go around, I just preferred the Challenger R/T even though it was as slow as the V6 Mustang at the time.

[Fobroader]

You guys are making it sound like the other two are DOA.

July (USA)
Camaro       4713
Challenger   5333
Mustang      6206

YTD (USA)
Camaro       41280
Challenger   41243
Mustang      50814

I'd have to try the new Camaro to see. The last go around, I just preferred the Challenger R/T even though it was as slow as the V6 Mustang at the time.

DOA performance wise....there is no accounting for taste 

[Ex-airbalancer]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

The guy drove a Challenger into that crowd of people.

Thats quite the stretch, even for snowflakes......

We have seen weird things get boycotted

[evil_twin]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

The guy drove a Challenger into that crowd of people.

Thats quite the stretch, even for snowflakes......

Guys, I'm pretty sure AB's comment was 99% joking.  I was just making the connection for AP as he seemed to not recognize what AB was referring to.

I personally do not believe buying a Dodge is funding the neo-Nazis.   (But I'm not NOT saying it either!) 

[evil_twin]

You guys are making it sound like the other two are DOA.

July (USA)
Camaro       4713
Challenger   5333
Mustang      6206

YTD (USA)
Camaro       41280
Challenger   41243
Mustang      50814

I'd have to try the new Camaro to see. The last go around, I just preferred the Challenger R/T even though it was as slow as the V6 Mustang at the time.

No one is basing their opinion on sales number but rather what the product offers (particularly from an enthusiast perspective). The 5th Gen Camaro outsold both the Mustang and Challenger and it was fairly terrible. 

I should note that do not expect to see discounts on a 1LE in Canada. It is a very rare beast up here. Only around 2000 are made worldwide every year and only a fraction make it up here. Most dealers only have allocation for 1 1LE a year. My dealer had to pull a favor to get allocation for me.

Yeah I'm always confused when sales numbers get brought up when we're discussing which cars may or may not appeal to an enthusiast.   Nobody is suggesting the Mustang is DOA.   Frankly it's somewhat shocking the Camaro ever outsells the Mustang given the very strong brand allegiance Mustang has built over the years...

But does anyone here value a stronger sales performer as some metric in their car buying decision?  If anything I'd want the slower seller to reduce the number of times I run into my own car on the street.

Mango I'll take you up on that offer to kill myself in your new ride once she's properly ready for it.

[SearhardBurger]

You guys are making it sound like the other two are DOA.

July (USA)
Camaro       4713
Challenger   5333
Mustang      6206

YTD (USA)
Camaro       41280
Challenger   41243
Mustang      50814

I'd have to try the new Camaro to see. The last go around, I just preferred the Challenger R/T even though it was as slow as the V6 Mustang at the time.

No one is basing their opinion on sales number but rather what the product offers (particularly from an enthusiast perspective). The 5th Gen Camaro outsold both the Mustang and Challenger and it was fairly terrible. 

I should note that do not expect to see discounts on a 1LE in Canada. It is a very rare beast up here. Only around 2000 are made worldwide every year and only a fraction make it up here. Most dealers only have allocation for 1 1LE a year. My dealer had to pull a favor to get allocation for me.

Yeah I'm always confused when sales numbers get brought up when we're discussing which cars may or may not appeal to an enthusiast.   Nobody is suggesting the Mustang is DOA.   Frankly it's somewhat shocking the Camaro ever outsells the Mustang given the very strong brand allegiance Mustang has built over the years...

But does anyone here value a stronger sales performer as some metric in their car buying decision?  If anything I'd want the slower seller to reduce the number of times I run into my own car on the street.

Mango I'll take you up on that offer to kill myself in your new ride once she's properly ready for it.

Sales numbers - no.

Brand/History - yes. 

There is no denying the current gen Camaro is the better performance car than the current Mustang though.  It will be fantastic to see exactly what Ford puts out to compete in 2018. 

[BWII]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

The guy drove a Challenger into that crowd of people.

Thats quite the stretch, even for snowflakes......

Guys, I'm pretty sure AB's comment was 99% joking.  I was just making the connection for AP as he seemed to not recognize what AB was referring to.

I personally do not believe buying a Dodge is funding the neo-Nazis.   (But I'm not NOT saying it either!) 

In case you all missed it in my long winded post...
http://jalopnik.com/dodge-deletes-roadkill-nights-posts-after-charlottesvil-1797895666
This past weekend, Heather Heyer died after being struck by a Dodge Challenger while counterprotesting white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia. That same weekend, in an epic case of unfortunate timing, Dodge tweeted about its big drag racing event in Michigan, “Roadkill Nights,” which drew heavy criticism on social media.

https://mic.com/articles/159116/new-balance-faces-backlash-after-throwing-its-support-behind-president-elect-donald-trump#.OhjoBZA97
New Balance faces backlash after throwing its support behind President-elect Donald Trump

So no...or yes...snowflakes boycott stuff for the dumbest of reasons.

[BWII]

If you want all those options you should really just be looking at a Camaro 2SS.

Oh no...I'm with you on the 1SS and 1LE, 90% of the options they offer are like putting sprinkles on your cake.  Looks pretty, doesn't make it taste any better.  I just want the bundt cake with the chocolate icing.  Nothing else. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I brought out the sales numbers just to point out that performance alone isn't the only metric people use to put a value on a car, even performance cars.

Plus, it makes the Bowtie boys all defensive. 

[evil_twin]

Most of the options in my opinion are stupid Chevy tacky stuff anyway. The only things I'd consider (and I got) where the blacked out bowties and the sweded knee pads.

Speaking of which....I presume your badges are just the black ones and not the black + illuminated ones??

[rrocket]

 when people ask why I bought a Camaro. 

You could also bring out your camouflaged baseball cap!   

[Ex-airbalancer]

I think it's almost counterproductive to compare the Mustang and Camaro (and Challenger) on an performance basis now. As I said earlier, I think one should look at what they want out of the car (sports car? grand tourer? muscle car?) and then make a decision based on that. Of course some people will simply choose an option based on philosophical reasons (Chevy guy, Mopar guy, etc) and some will choose based on looks.

Part of the appeal of the Challenger to me is that a grand tourer best fits how I would use the car.  Fairly or otherwise, I somehow feel as though grand touring should come at a price discount relative to super car level performance.

I wonder, if people see you driving a Challenger now will they think you're a Nazi ? 
Could be some good deals coming if Challenger sales nose drive

That is not self-explanatory to me.

Is this the link of thought:  The General Lee was a Challenger, and removing the statue of Robert Lee is at the root of the recent Charlottesville racial mayhem? 

If so, I will take my chances that owning a Challenger will not be interpreted as evidence of racial prejudice...

The guy drove a Challenger into that crowd of people.

Thats quite the stretch, even for snowflakes......

Guys, I'm pretty sure AB's comment was 99% joking.  I was just making the connection for AP as he seemed to not recognize what AB was referring to.

I personally do not believe buying a Dodge is funding the neo-Nazis.   (But I'm not NOT saying it either!) 

So you don't think there be any deals on a Challangers 

[SaskSpecV]

No god - that's exactly the I'm talking about. Brutal. Maybe the only downfall of owning a Camaro is that so many guys love that crap. Disgusting. Mine are just black......although all the pony cars have some terrible options that people seem to like.

Those damn rear and side window louvers (especially on Mustangs)....WTF 

Great ride Vman, don't end up in jail!  I assume you've bookmarked tirerack and lined up the inevitable replacement tires for when OE are toast?  What is the OE brand and size on the 1LE, anyway?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Sir O you're right in regards to your sales numbers - I'd argue that with these cars and some traditional buyers performance numbers might be the least important thing. But for the discerning enthusiast I can at least bring out the laminated card of track times from lightning lap in my glovebox when people ask why I bought a Camaro. 

That would be all kinds of awesome right there.   

[rrocket]

 when people ask why I bought a Camaro. 

You could also bring out your camouflaged baseball cap!   

I actually have one, lol.

Sask, they are Goodyear supercar 3 tires "developed for the 1LE." Rated for 15,000 miles, lol. 285s in front and 305s in the rear  and they're 20s. Not going to be cheap.

Like this??   

[rrocket]

Now you know what to ship to me for Christmas. Just make sure to put a nice stogie inside.

Only if you promise to post a pic of you in the Camaro with it!!   

[CSH]

This thread is super awesoms