Topic: Service for classic car after 2 years

[ChaosphereIX]

Hey chaps, hope this is the right sub-forum for this.

As I am moving back to Canada soon, I have started talking to my shops in TO to do a major service on the Alfa. This is going to hurt, but she needs the TLC after a couple of years of storage.

Engine: Camshafts, tappets adjusted with new shims, idler, tensioner, timing belt, aux belt, waterpump, re-tuned for new camshafts

Inspections/maintenance: electrical/ignition/charging inspection, oil change, check of all fluids, a general inspection of condition of hoses, check suspension and bushings etc., check alignment and fix steering wheel that is just slightly crooked when driving straight [happened after I fixed diff bearings]

Brakes: try and get brake pedal adjusted - last time I drove it after changing the fluid and master cylinder, the pedal had about 2-3 inches of travel, and was very firm, and was hard to make a smooth stop. This is critical as I don't want any safety concerns with stopping. We bled the system properly, and the clutch on the same loop has great feel.

I am trying to cover the bases, but does anyone else with semi-classic cars that are stored have any suggestions of checks or services that I should pay attention to? The car has been run only a couple of times in the last 2 years.

Thanks guys. You are a great community, glad to be a part of it. I don't say that enough.

[Arthur Dent]

Not sure what they will do for an electrical/ignition/charging inspection. This you can probably do yourself. Put a multimeter between the two battery poles when running. Make sure you are getting something along the lines of 14V rather than say 12V-ish. Yah - your alternating is charging! Check lights and other electrical things. You might need a new battery after 2 years of sitting.

Hoses you can take a look at yourself too. Give them a little squeeze - should have a little give. No cracks.

A couple "Italian tune-ups" on a back road aren't a bad idea either once you get the engine maintenance sorted. 

[rrocket]

Unless it actually needs the big engine work, I'd skip it. If the car is stored properly, those items shouldn't have degraded any in only 2 years.

A usual tune up would be in order though, and possibly a brand bleed with fluid and general inspection of brake components.

It depends on the condition the car was in when put into storage and how it was stored.

[ChaosphereIX]

thanks for the suggestions guys

Will do as much by myself as I can. Especially the Italian tune ups, I love doing those, and they do work!

The battery was brand new before I started storing it. So brand new and powerful that it blew the old alternator on the car when I first hooked it up. Every November the battery was yanked, put in my basement, and topped up with a trickle charger. Before storage fuel tank is topped up with fuel stabilizer. Car has sat in a semi-heated barn under cover for the winter. Basically got driven from our garage to the barn and back, that is it.

As for the engine work, I think it needs doing. The valve buckets certainly need re-adjusting, the engine sounds "tappety." Has since I first got it. In order to fix the inlet valves and re-shim them, the camshafts have to come out anyway, so I figured "while we are in there" stuff like the timing belt, waterpump, idler, tensioner should be replaced. It has been over 5 years since they have been done, possibly longer cant remember what the service book said.

Am I being a princess about the engine? Should I just run it as is? I have all the replacement parts that I bought 2 years ago sitting there [except the shims]. Would only have to pay the $1500 or so in labour to tear the engine apart.

[Arthur Dent]

I've never owned anything as fancy as an Alfa. I tend to grab stuff out of a field, make sure there is oil, and run it. Probably not a great plan for an Alfa. 

[ArticSteve]

Am I being a princess about the engine? Should I just run it as is?

Yes & Yes.

I'd suck whatever gas I could reasonable get out of it and refill with 94.  As for the battery, load test will tell the story.  Minor issue.

[rrocket]

thanks for the suggestions guys

Will do as much by myself as I can. Especially the Italian tune ups, I love doing those, and they do work!

The battery was brand new before I started storing it. So brand new and powerful that it blew the old alternator on the car when I first hooked it up. Every November the battery was yanked, put in my basement, and topped up with a trickle charger. Before storage fuel tank is topped up with fuel stabilizer. Car has sat in a semi-heated barn under cover for the winter. Basically got driven from our garage to the barn and back, that is it.

As for the engine work, I think it needs doing. The valve buckets certainly need re-adjusting, the engine sounds "tappety." Has since I first got it. In order to fix the inlet valves and re-shim them, the camshafts have to come out anyway, so I figured "while we are in there" stuff like the timing belt, waterpump, idler, tensioner should be replaced. It has been over 5 years since they have been done, possibly longer cant remember what the service book said.

Am I being a princess about the engine? Should I just run it as is? I have all the replacement parts that I bought 2 years ago sitting there [except the shims]. Would only have to pay the $1500 or so in labour to tear the engine apart.

I guess for me, is there a way to check clearances without digging in too deep?

I just don't anyways trust the ear test...some cars are louder (tappity) than others.

I've never been a replace/repair guy "just because"...and I'm pretty anal about mechanicals on my cars.

[ChaosphereIX]

thanks for the suggestions guys

Will do as much by myself as I can. Especially the Italian tune ups, I love doing those, and they do work!

The battery was brand new before I started storing it. So brand new and powerful that it blew the old alternator on the car when I first hooked it up. Every November the battery was yanked, put in my basement, and topped up with a trickle charger. Before storage fuel tank is topped up with fuel stabilizer. Car has sat in a semi-heated barn under cover for the winter. Basically got driven from our garage to the barn and back, that is it.

As for the engine work, I think it needs doing. The valve buckets certainly need re-adjusting, the engine sounds "tappety." Has since I first got it. In order to fix the inlet valves and re-shim them, the camshafts have to come out anyway, so I figured "while we are in there" stuff like the timing belt, waterpump, idler, tensioner should be replaced. It has been over 5 years since they have been done, possibly longer cant remember what the service book said.

Am I being a princess about the engine? Should I just run it as is? I have all the replacement parts that I bought 2 years ago sitting there [except the shims]. Would only have to pay the $1500 or so in labour to tear the engine apart.

I guess for me, is there a way to check clearances without digging in too deep?

I just don't anyways trust the ear test...some cars are louder (tappity) than others.

I've never been a replace/repair guy "just because"...and I'm pretty anal about mechanicals on my cars.

yeah I guess I could get them measured before taking things apart, just get each one to TDC and see the clearance...

good idea

[Gurgie]

Suggest going to Metric Motors here in Ottawa on Clyde Ave, (near J.A. Dulude Arena) and talk to Ian. Might take him a while to get what you want done, but it'll be a fair price & he'll do only what needs to be done, no extras. I bring my 951 to him.

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[ChaosphereIX]

Suggest going to Metric Motors here in Ottawa on Clyde Ave, (near J.A. Dulude Arena) and talk to Ian. Might take him a while to get what you want done, but it'll be a fair price & he'll do only what needs to be done, no extras. I bring my 951 to him.

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I will give him a call, thanks. Other mechs I have called have been scared off from my engine, hard to find a mech confident in doing the work. I have a 400 page manual too for a complete engine rebuild.

Otherwise was either going to look at a shop in TO or Autostrada on Wellington [they have done work on the car before]

[Gurgie]

Suggest going to Metric Motors here in Ottawa on Clyde Ave, (near J.A. Dulude Arena) and talk to Ian. Might take him a while to get what you want done, but it'll be a fair price & he'll do only what needs to be done, no extras. I bring my 951 to him.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I will give him a call, thanks. Other mechs I have called have been scared off from my engine, hard to find a mech confident in doing the work. I have a 400 page manual too for a complete engine rebuild.

Otherwise was either going to look at a shop in TO or Autostrada on Wellington [they have done work on the car before]

Tell him I referred you, as I've been there a few times with my 951, the old Mini & he did the safety on the 323i as well.

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[rrocket]

thanks for the suggestions guys

Will do as much by myself as I can. Especially the Italian tune ups, I love doing those, and they do work!

The battery was brand new before I started storing it. So brand new and powerful that it blew the old alternator on the car when I first hooked it up. Every November the battery was yanked, put in my basement, and topped up with a trickle charger. Before storage fuel tank is topped up with fuel stabilizer. Car has sat in a semi-heated barn under cover for the winter. Basically got driven from our garage to the barn and back, that is it.

As for the engine work, I think it needs doing. The valve buckets certainly need re-adjusting, the engine sounds "tappety." Has since I first got it. In order to fix the inlet valves and re-shim them, the camshafts have to come out anyway, so I figured "while we are in there" stuff like the timing belt, waterpump, idler, tensioner should be replaced. It has been over 5 years since they have been done, possibly longer cant remember what the service book said.

Am I being a princess about the engine? Should I just run it as is? I have all the replacement parts that I bought 2 years ago sitting there [except the shims]. Would only have to pay the $1500 or so in labour to tear the engine apart.

I guess for me, is there a way to check clearances without digging in too deep?

I just don't anyways trust the ear test...some cars are louder (tappity) than others.

I've never been a replace/repair guy "just because"...and I'm pretty anal about mechanicals on my cars.

yeah I guess I could get them measured before taking things apart, just get each one to TDC and see the clearance...

good idea

I've known guys who did engine work just because. It seemed like a waste of money ($7k up). And sometimes issues cropped up that weren't there before. Tearing an engine apart is a big undertaking, and sometimes things get missed, something isn't tightened right, a plug is missed, etc.

I just want to be sure it needs it before going through the expense and possible aggravations...including the little things like the car not being ready on time, finding parts, maybe even checking their work.

[ChaosphereIX]

I hear ya, I am just concerned because the timing belt has not been done in some time [over 5 years]. Other than that, everything else in the engine can rest and wait, except for the damn tappety sound.

Maybe I can get it inspected for fraying or cracks instead of replacing it outright? I know, I am being a big baby about this. Just don't want to be THAT ALFA OWNER where their engine goes boom, perpetuating the stereotype, and all because I didnt do maintenance...

Why the hell dont all engines from the beginning of time have timing chains? Deliberately making work for the service department?

[rrocket]

If there's a belt cover, you could likely check the belt too.

[Seafoam]

Does this car burn a lot of oil? If not I'd leave it alone. How many miles since last timing belt change? Maybe it's not necessary.
The tappets , what grade of engine oil are you using? Maybe it would quiet down with a different grade and more frequent oil changes.

[blur911]

Does this car burn a lot of oil? If not I'd leave it alone. How many miles since last timing belt change? Maybe it's not necessary.
The tappets , what grade of engine oil are you using? Maybe it would quiet down with a different grade and more frequent oil changes.

They are solid cam followers, they don't pump up with oil. (I'm assuming)
Just remember that if they are clicking they have clearance, tight valves are worse than loose valves, they'll burn.

[ChaosphereIX]

Does this car burn a lot of oil? If not I'd leave it alone. How many miles since last timing belt change? Maybe it's not necessary.
The tappets , what grade of engine oil are you using? Maybe it would quiet down with a different grade and more frequent oil changes.

rrocket has already worked with me on the oil thing, it currently has Royal Purple 10w40 - the grade the manual calls for if not racing. For tracked/racing Alfas [which mine is not], it calls for 10w50 or 10w60 Selenia racing oil. Which we cant get here. Thanks to rrockets suggestions, next oil change will be with some Amsoil meant for solid tappets with high zinc...I think.

I have tried previously a 10w30 Castrol, 5w40 Shell Rotella T6, and it was worse, and a 10w50 Valvoline, and it seemed to quiet a tad but not noticeably over the 10w40 that it runs now. I will try the Amsoil next as it seems best suited to my old school engine with wide tolerances and solid tappets.

The car does not burn a lot of oil at all, almost none from what I remember. Very stable between its oil changes when I am home [every spring new oil, kms is not a factor as I have put on only 9,000kms in the 5 years I have had the car.]

@blur911 yeah I know that the valves are supposed to tick, and if they are too close on clearances they will burn...but it sounds as if some are way too wide...wish I had an audio recording. In the spring I may update with a vid of what I am talking of and you guys can tell me what you think. Other 12v V6s on the net are not as clicky as mine, at least from my perspective. But some of the forum guys say that yeah, some engines no matter what you do are very tappety...and those can wear down the tappets quicker than quieter ones. All voodoo to me.

thanks for the help guys

[blur911]

@blur911 yeah I know that the valves are supposed to tick, and if they are too close on clearances they will burn...but it sounds as if some are way too wide...wish I had an audio recording. In the spring I may update with a vid of what I am talking of and you guys can tell me what you think. Other 12v V6s on the net are not as clicky as mine, at least from my perspective. But some of the forum guys say that yeah, some engines no matter what you do are very tappety...and those can wear down the tappets quicker than quieter ones. All voodoo to me.

My 911 also requires regular valve adjustment, but it also has SOHC and rockers so it's pretty easy.   Just check the clearance and adjust the screw and locknut, no cam removal required.  IIRC the clearance is 0.004"  Most of my bikes have this setup, but I believe my BMW has shims and buckets.

[ChaosphereIX]

@blur911 yeah I know that the valves are supposed to tick, and if they are too close on clearances they will burn...but it sounds as if some are way too wide...wish I had an audio recording. In the spring I may update with a vid of what I am talking of and you guys can tell me what you think. Other 12v V6s on the net are not as clicky as mine, at least from my perspective. But some of the forum guys say that yeah, some engines no matter what you do are very tappety...and those can wear down the tappets quicker than quieter ones. All voodoo to me.

My 911 also requires regular valve adjustment, but it also has SOHC and rockers so it's pretty easy.   Just check the clearance and adjust the screw and locknut, no cam removal required.  IIRC the clearance is 0.004"  Most of my bikes have this setup, but I believe my BMW has shims and buckets.

for my Busso 12v the inlets are shimmed, but usually wear rather than go out of adjustment. The exhaust tappets are regular screw adjustment, but they frequently loosen up. It is the inlet ones that are a pain, as camshafts need to be in to measure, removed, shim put in, then camshaft put back in to re measure...for 6 valves.

Oh the joys of classic motoring...

[blur911]

for my Busso 12v the inlets are shimmed, but usually wear rather than go out of adjustment. The exhaust tappets are regular screw adjustment, but they frequently loosen up. It is the inlet ones that are a pain, as camshafts need to be in to measure, removed, shim put in, then camshaft put back in to re measure...for 6 valves.

The last couple of times I've adjusted clearances they were mostly still pretty close or still good.  I'm going to do it again before I put the engine back in.   They tend to get a bit looser if anything so not a big issue.
I used to add a can of GM EOS engine oil supplement to each oil change, it's basically a can of anti-wear additives.    The additives were removed from the oil a few years back due to emissions reasons, not good for non-roller cams as you no doubt already know.