Topic: The car market is turning.

[rrocket]

I'm surely in the minority..but I prefer my modern cars to look...modern. Even if somewhat controversial.

But it had to "work" and be cohesive.

[TheHire]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

[Firm]

Like I said, lemmings.....

One of the original ugly ducklings. Having just about recovered from the Bangle butt, BMW decided to have another go at ugliness


And Hyundai's effort at overwrought grills plus the numerous light elements


And just look at the number of light elements in this Nissan grill


In comparison, the classically conservative Toyota Grand Highlander. Even the spindle grill is unobtrusive.

This made me think of a comment my 5 year old son made last night. We went to Home Depot and as we were pulling into the lot he pointed out a late XJ Cherokee (99ish with the body colored flares and bumpers), nice clean original condition, and said "That's a nice old Jeep, how come new cars don't look that good anymore"? I didn't have a decent answer for him, but it was definitely a proud dad moment 

[ktm525]

Easy,

Pedestrian impact requirements, Fuel economy standards (aero), Manufacturing simplicity, Improved headlights (mostly), crash standards.

Cars today are much safer than those produced in the 90s. You want looks or function? 

[Firm]

Easy,

Pedestrian impact requirements, Fuel economy standards (aero), Manufacturing simplicity, Improved headlights (mostly), crash standards.

Cars today are much safer than those produced in the 90s. You want looks or function? 

Looks - says the guy about to commute home at 80mph in a 40 year old car.

I get it though, but try explaining that to a 5 year old. I should've just assimilated to the area and blamed it on 'those dang government commies' 

[PJungnitsch]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

Interesting teardown of the previous version, seems like a lot of European DNA:

https://youtu.be/5VX495y0W_s?t=0

[HeliDriver]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

I’m as surprised as anyone that they’re still making it. But they just gave it quite a major work over (and 2025 is the first year for the revised diesel in the SUVs), so I’m hopeful they’ll keep it around for a few more years at least.

[warp]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

Traditionally a diesel had two advantages over a gas engine; one, massive torque available at low rpm and two, superior fuel economy. I think the first advantage has been largely negated by the plethora of turbocharged gas engines and the second has been neutralized by higher servicing costs and larger repair bills compared to gas engines. Notwithstanding, I personally still like diesels. But your MB diesel is a hard sell, 12 year old vehicle, MB has walked away from diesels in North America, probable difficult in finding good indy mechanics to work on this car as it ages even more & living with a vehicle whose convenience feature set, lighting system, interior ergonomics etc. were designed 15 - 18 years ago.

[ktm525]

Easy,

Pedestrian impact requirements, Fuel economy standards (aero), Manufacturing simplicity, Improved headlights (mostly), crash standards.

Cars today are much safer than those produced in the 90s. You want looks or function? 

Looks - says the guy about to commute home at 80mph in a 40 year old car.

I get it though, but try explaining that to a 5 year old. I should've just assimilated to the area and blamed it on 'those dang government commies' 

Explanation to a 5 year old? Easy: Most adults want  to take the fun things away. 

[ktm525]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

Traditionally a diesel had two advantages over a gas engine; one, massive torque available at low rpm and two, superior fuel economy. I think the first advantage has been largely negated by the plethora of turbocharged gas engines and the second has been neutralized by higher servicing costs and larger repair bills compared to gas engines. Notwithstanding, I personally still like diesels. But your MB diesel is a hard sell, 12 year old vehicle, MB has walked away from diesels in North America, probable difficult in finding good indy mechanics to work on this car as it ages even more & living with a vehicle whose convenience feature set, lighting system, interior ergonomics etc. were designed 15 - 18 years ago.

Price of diesel is also typically higher than low test gasoline which negates some of the efficiency value. The appeal of diesels went downhill with the advent of emissions systems.

[revalations]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

The 3.0 is one of the more sought after engines in the Yukons and Burbans. Also, it’s selling well in the 1/2 tons. I hope you’re not right, but they are the last ones out there with a 1/2 ton diesel. Think the truck/large suv demographic is more accepting of diesel’s rather than you typical luxury buyer. The GSM at our local GM store says it’s not all that popular in the Escalade, but he sells every single one he gets in nonetheless. Would be my choice if buying a new Yukon.

[ktm525]

Yeah, it’s ugly, but not a deal breaker for me.

As an aside, our 2011 turned over 300k km yesterday. Would love to drive it to 500k, but at the rate we’re putting miles on it, I think the rust will take it out first.

Still planning on a new Suburban with the 3.0 diesel as an eventual replacement. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll finally put a decent grill on it for the 2029 refresh. 

I'd bet my left shoe that the 3.0 diesel doesn't make it much past next year... I only recently learned that it's still in production. Great engine, but nobody wants diesels anymore. I'm dying with a super nice, low mileage 2012 E350 Diesel that's priced well below market.

The 3.0 is one of the more sought after engines in the Yukons and Burbans. Also, it’s selling well in the 1/2 tons. I hope you’re not right, but they are the last ones out there with a 1/2 ton diesel. Think the truck/large suv demographic is more accepting of diesel’s rather than you typical luxury buyer. The GSM at our local GM store says it’s not all that popular in the Escalade, but he sells every single one he gets in nonetheless. Would be my choice if buying a new Yukon.

Strangely the diesel is rated to pull less than the 5.3 or 6.2. It must be due to the engine weight killing payload?

[dkaz]

As someone who drives a car, I personally welcome the lower headlights on these big vehicles. It doesn’t take away from the forward visibility for these drivers and is less blinding for those of us who refuse to on the truck/suv bandwagon.

[me_2]

As someone who drives a car, I personally welcome the lower headlights on these big vehicles. It doesn’t take away from the forward visibility for these drivers and is less blinding for those of us who refuse to on the truck/suv bandwagon.

+1 
beam height

"One thing severely bug me here in NA, it is the headlight height.
When you sit in your car and the "whatsoever" facing or next behind head beam right at the same level of your eyes & center mirror, it shouldn't be that way.

IIRC, in Euro they also have normalized the headlight height, including heavy truck, not only passenger & light truck."

[warp]

Suburbans and Tahoes with the diesel engines sell the fastest off dealer lots!!

GM’s full-size SUVs are unique for their segment in offering a diesel engine option, and sales figures for the 2024 Chevy Tahoe and 2024 Chevy Suburban show it’s the vehicles that cradle the 3.0L I6 LM2 turbodiesel Duramax engine that are the fastest-turning on dealership lots.

This means that Chevy Tahoe and Chevy Suburban units that are motivated by the turbodiesel engine are the ones that spend the shortest amount of time on the lot before being purchased.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/04/heres-the-fastest-turning-chevy-tahoe-suburban-engine-on-dealer-lots/

And the new LZ0 diesel engine with more hp and torque for the 2025 model year:

GM plans to continue offering a diesel engine for both the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban into the 2025 model year. However, the 2025 Chevy Tahoe and 2025 Chevy Suburban will get the 3.0L I6 LZ0 turbodiesel Duramax engine instead of the current LM2, boosting horses by 10 percent to 305 horsepower and torque by 7.6 percent to 495 pound-feet. The LZ0 was originally debuted on the Chevy Silverado 1500.

[warp]

And an undisguised photograph of the 2025 Yukon Denali front end, the vertical headlight stack has been moved lower and is flanked by the signature horseshoe shaped daylight running light bar. Incidentally, if that LED bar fails for any reason, the entire headlight housing has to be replaced...big $$!!

[revalations]

My Uncle hit a magpie on the highway in his 2023 Audi Q8. Broke the headlight and a small scratch on the bumper. Total insurance bill was over $7000. Mostly all of that was the headlight. I had a 2021 GMC Sierra with the base halogen unit. Dealer cost was $1,7XX, found aftermarket unit for just over $800.

Wonder why insurance rates are skyrocketing.

[bye]

As an indication that deals are back on the table, our new F150 Lightning was $21000 off sticker.   Ford cannot be making any money on a truck with 2x the battery of a Tesla Model Y for the same price.  580 HP.   $6 to drive 100 km.  Their loss is my gain.

[bridgecity]

I can’t even imagine how many dollars you are ahead by buying a lightning. First, basically free fuel and now 21k rebate. I have no idea why Ford is offering 21k in rebates, these should be in such high demand!  F150 Lightning all the things!

[Gurgie]

I can’t even imagine how many dollars you are ahead by buying a lightning. First, basically free fuel and now 21k rebate. I have no idea why Ford is offering 21k in rebates, these should be in such high demand!  F150 Lightning all the things!

And it was only $93k all in...   me is that great logic or what!?

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