Topic: First Drive: 2017 Mercedes-Benz E 300

[OliverD]

I guess buyers will have to go into 6 figure territory to get something appropriate with the Merc motor-wise. Hopefully at that level they can count on such exotic features as a backup camera and leather being standard.   

What are you basing that on? The E300 starts at just over $60k and you can get a fairly well equipped model for $70k. The E43 AMG will likely be under $80k.

[Jaeger]

I guess buyers will have to go into 6 figure territory to get something appropriate with the Merc motor-wise. Hopefully at that level they can count on such exotic features as a backup camera and leather being standard.   

What are you basing that on? The E300 starts at just over $60k and you can get a fairly well equipped model for $70k. The E43 AMG will likely be under $80k.

That's where the E tops out. And who the heck buys a "base" Mercedes?  You don't even get a backup camera with that.

[Jaeger]

And lol - the point doesn't actually turn on whether we are discussing a $70k Mercedes luxury sedan or an $80k Mercedes luxury sedan.

[mlin32]

Fun fact: The E-Klasse touring (wagon) is available now only with 4 cyl engines. Diesel or petrol. 

I still don't totally see the E-Klasse as a luxury-only automobile but perhaps I have spent too much time in Europe to think so.

[Jaeger]

An S Class with a 4 pot would be sooo awesome! 

[CanuckS2K]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal. 

[CanuckS2K]

I'll add that it might not have the brand cache that the three pointed star does (which doesn't mean sh!t to me), but the Q50 Red Sport offers WAY more bang for your buck at a much lower price point.  Same goes for the IS350. 

[OliverD]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal.

Some people actually prefer the leatherette though. Supposedly the stuff in Benzes is of very high quality and wears better than real leather. And not that I care at all, but some people do like the fact that you aren't forced into leather for humane and/or environmental reasons.

I don't think offering the choice is a terrible thing.

[OliverD]

Fun fact: The E-Klasse touring (wagon) is available now only with 4 cyl engines. Diesel or petrol. 

I still don't totally see the E-Klasse as a luxury-only automobile but perhaps I have spent too much time in Europe to think so.

For now, but E400, E43, and E63 versions are coming soon.

[OliverD]

An S Class with a 4 pot would be sooo awesome! 

The S300h already has a four cylinder.

[CanuckS2K]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal.

Some people actually prefer the leatherette though. Supposedly the stuff in Benzes is of very high quality and wears better than real leather. And not that I care at all, but some people do like the fact that you aren't forced into leather for humane and/or environmental reasons.

I don't think offering the choice is a terrible thing.

I'll certainly concede that some folks will choose the artificial leather over the real thing for humane or environmental reasons.  I get that.  BUT, at the $80k price range, it should be a NO charge upgrade for those that want the real thing. 

[mixmanmash]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal.

Some people actually prefer the leatherette though. Supposedly the stuff in Benzes is of very high quality and wears better than real leather. And not that I care at all, but some people do like the fact that you aren't forced into leather for humane and/or environmental reasons.

I don't think offering the choice is a terrible thing.

Agreed.

[mixmanmash]

I'll add that it might not have the brand cache that the three pointed star does (which doesn't mean sh!t to me), but the Q50 Red Sport offers WAY more bang for your buck at a much lower price point.  Same goes for the IS350.

Yes, the Q50 Red Sport is awesome bang for the buck, but it compares more to the C-Class.  The Q70/Q70L is more comparable to the E-Class, but the Q70 is in need of updating.

As much as I do like the styling and execution of the E-Class, I would still have to seriously consider the Lexus GS and Genesis G80.  I would even give the next gen BMW 5-series a serious look.

[Jaeger]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal.

Some people actually prefer the leatherette though. Supposedly the stuff in Benzes is of very high quality and wears better than real leather. And not that I care at all, but some people do like the fact that you aren't forced into leather for humane and/or environmental reasons.

I don't think offering the choice is a terrible thing.

I'll certainly concede that some folks will choose the artificial leather over the real thing for humane or environmental reasons.  I get that.  BUT, at the $80k price range, it should be a NO charge upgrade for those that want the real thing.

Spot on. 

[sailor723]

Having a 4 cyl in an $80k luxury Sedan is one thing, but not even having real leather is baffling to me.  It's pretty much insulting IMO.  Thankfully for me, I've never gravitated towards any NA Benz models so I guess it's a moot point as I'll never be a customer.  Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the C200 Diesel Hybrid Wagon with the 6 spd earlier this year in Portugal.

Some people actually prefer the leatherette though. Supposedly the stuff in Benzes is of very high quality and wears better than real leather. And not that I care at all, but some people do like the fact that you aren't forced into leather for humane and/or environmental reasons.

I don't think offering the choice is a terrible thing.

I'll certainly concede that some folks will choose the artificial leather over the real thing for humane or environmental reasons.  I get that.  BUT, at the $80k price range, it should be a NO charge upgrade for those that want the real thing.

Spot on.

I agree. Gouging someone an extra 2 grand for leather on a 70-80K car is insulting. When I bought my ML it having vinyl upholstery was definitely an entry in the "con" column. It's stood up well but it still slightly annoys me.

[Jaeger]

^^^ I absolutely hear you on that.

[Jaeger]

I'll add that it might not have the brand cache that the three pointed star does (which doesn't mean sh!t to me), but the Q50 Red Sport offers WAY more bang for your buck at a much lower price point.  Same goes for the IS350.

Yes, the Q50 Red Sport is awesome bang for the buck, but it compares more to the C-Class.  The Q70/Q70L is more comparable to the E-Class, but the Q70 is in need of updating.

As much as I do like the styling and execution of the E-Class, I would still have to seriously consider the Lexus GS and Genesis G80.  I would even give the next gen BMW 5-series a serious look.

This got me thinking of things that Mercedes can get away with that Hyundai would be CRUCIFIED for:

1) Here's our brand new Genesis G80 midsize luxury sedan, now standard with a 2.0 Turbo!
2) Here's our brand new Genesis G80 midsize luxury sedan, now standard with rich Corinthian vinyl seats!
3) Buy our brand new Genesis G80 luxury sedan and enjoy the added character and excitement of consistently wonky electronics!

Be real now - wouldn't we be witnessing a chorus of laughing and finger pointing and declarations about how Hyundai doesn't understand the luxury segment?

[sailor723]

Since MB made the decision to go for volume in North America about 20 years ago quality has steadily declined. What I often see now, especially in their mid range and lower end models, can best be described as "a thin veneer of luxury car spread over an ordinary mainstream vehicle". Sadly, the days of Mercedes Benz being synonymous with bank vault build quality and reliability are fast becoming just a distant memory.

[mixmanmash]

I'll add that it might not have the brand cache that the three pointed star does (which doesn't mean sh!t to me), but the Q50 Red Sport offers WAY more bang for your buck at a much lower price point.  Same goes for the IS350.

Yes, the Q50 Red Sport is awesome bang for the buck, but it compares more to the C-Class.  The Q70/Q70L is more comparable to the E-Class, but the Q70 is in need of updating.

As much as I do like the styling and execution of the E-Class, I would still have to seriously consider the Lexus GS and Genesis G80.  I would even give the next gen BMW 5-series a serious look.

This got me thinking of things that Mercedes can get away with that Hyundai would be CRUCIFIED for:

1) Here's our brand new Genesis G80 midsize luxury sedan, now standard with a 2.0 Turbo!
2) Here's our brand new Genesis G80 midsize luxury sedan, now standard with rich Corinthian vinyl seats!
3) Buy our brand new Genesis G80 luxury sedan and enjoy the added character and excitement of consistently wonky electronics!

Be real now - wouldn't we be witnessing a chorus of laughing and finger pointing and declarations about how Hyundai doesn't understand the luxury segment?

Absolutely.  Everybody picks on the new player.

[mixmanmash]

Since MB made the decision to go for volume in North America about 20 years ago quality has steadily declined. What I often see now, especially in their mid range and lower end models, can best be described as "a thin veneer of luxury car spread over an ordinary mainstream vehicle". Sadly, the days of Mercedes Benz being synonymous with bank vault build quality and reliability are fast becoming just a distant memory.

Yep.  Eighties and early nineties seemed to be the best for MB Quality.