Author Topic: Chevrolet Bolt  (Read 15042 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #180 on: December 13, 2017, 02:30:48 am »
^^^^Glassware vs Vaporware!   :rofl: :rofl2: :rofl: :rofl2:
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #181 on: December 13, 2017, 02:33:44 am »
^^^^Glassware vs Vaporware!   :rofl: :rofl2: :rofl: :rofl2:

heh yeah - at least both are interesting cars though worth talking and arguing about

not like almost all of the CUV segment, especially that stupid Nissan "INSERTTRENDYNAMEHERE"
Objects in mirror are losing

If driving an Alfa does not restore vitality to your soul, then just pass the hospital and park at the morgue to save everyone time.

Hi one Audi please.
Of course sir. What shape and how big?
*customer makes some hand gestures*
Excellent, there you are sir.

Offline kevlar

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #182 on: December 13, 2017, 09:03:54 pm »
perfect comparison.  a p100d costs 176k....  a porsche panamera 4 e hybrid is 113k. a mercedes amg 63 is 115k
didn't elon say the model s was an affordable car?

The Tesla Model S P100D destroys the AMG , see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ0XACnjT6A

Also note that Elon wrote this:
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me

Quote
Build sports car
Use that money to build an affordable car
Use that money to build an even more affordable car

The base Tesla is an affordable car for those driving 300,000 km over a 10 year ownership period.
Any other premium sedan would use $30000 more to fuel over that period.
At a base price with rebate in Ontario, that's a $80K car, that is equivalent to a $50K gas car in terms of ownership cost.

Our Tesla absolutely thrashes the $50K Mercedes SUV my wife used to drive for performance, luxury, technology, driving experience.

Model 3 will slay premium competition.  Argument will be "I like sound", because performance, road handling, technology will be a slam dunk for Tesla.

And your delusional commentary explains to me why Tesla stock is priced the way it is. Honestly I canít wait to see our NDP ERRR liberal Ontario govt replaced so that idiotic 14k dollar hand out to the rich can be eliminated.

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #183 on: December 14, 2017, 12:57:00 am »
hey that large rebate makes these things affordable to some that otherwise could not afford them

otherwise either people cant afford them, or the manufacturers cant afford to make them

Offline kevlar

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #184 on: December 14, 2017, 06:25:37 am »
hey that large rebate makes these things affordable to some that otherwise could not afford them

otherwise either people cant afford them, or the manufacturers cant afford to make them

focus on vehicles that are reasonably priced and more so, built in canada.  there's absolutely no need to subsidize anything over 60-75k dollars.  force the oems to build in canada so the money stays here not subsidizing the wealthy and elon. 

i would argue that buses and trucks, should initially be the target of subsidizes for vehicles and hydrogen and charging stations since these vehicles produce the most pollution beyond energy sector itself.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/01/25/heavy-transportation-is-now-the-biggest-polluter/#77f156bd1a19

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #185 on: December 14, 2017, 09:02:41 am »
hey that large rebate makes these things affordable to some that otherwise could not afford them

otherwise either people cant afford them, or the manufacturers cant afford to make them

focus on vehicles that are reasonably priced and more so, built in canada.  there's absolutely no need to subsidize anything over 60-75k dollars.  force the oems to build in canada so the money stays here not subsidizing the wealthy and elon. 

i would argue that buses and trucks, should initially be the target of subsidizes for vehicles and hydrogen and charging stations since these vehicles produce the most pollution beyond energy sector itself.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/01/25/heavy-transportation-is-now-the-biggest-polluter/#77f156bd1a19

to insist cars be locally built is living in the 50s, sorry - it is a global economy and car build locations reflect that

and yes subsidizing a new technology that NEEDS to get traction in market for the greater good is needed to make the cars affordable to as many as possible...at least until the industry makes a dramatic shift

Offline kevlar

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #186 on: December 14, 2017, 11:25:16 am »
hey that large rebate makes these things affordable to some that otherwise could not afford them

otherwise either people cant afford them, or the manufacturers cant afford to make them

focus on vehicles that are reasonably priced and more so, built in canada.  there's absolutely no need to subsidize anything over 60-75k dollars.  force the oems to build in canada so the money stays here not subsidizing the wealthy and elon. 

i would argue that buses and trucks, should initially be the target of subsidizes for vehicles and hydrogen and charging stations since these vehicles produce the most pollution beyond energy sector itself.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/01/25/heavy-transportation-is-now-the-biggest-polluter/#77f156bd1a19

to insist cars be locally built is living in the 50s, sorry - it is a global economy and car build locations reflect that

and yes subsidizing a new technology that NEEDS to get traction in market for the greater good is needed to make the cars affordable to as many as possible...at least until the industry makes a dramatic shift

if we were to follow your path of logic we wouldn't be building any cars in canada. everything about building in canada is more expensive than many places around the world, in particular, mexico and china. (this is why free trade with china is such a tricky proposition.  labour is cheap and they hardly know what a labour law is) 

we don't need to subsidize tesla or any of the rich who want to be first to show off their overpriced EV. a vehicle that's over 75k bucks is a tool for the rich and i believe the bolt proves that tesla is massively overcharging for their questionably built cars.

by subsidizing tesla's model s and model x, all of our tax dollars are going into supporting an american business and american jobs.  i don't see the gov't of canada pushing for electric or fuel cell buses or trucks which are built in canada. new flyer buses produces BEV, hybrid and fuel cell buses which would go to canadian jobs.   
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:49:19 am by kevlar »

Offline BWII

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #187 on: December 14, 2017, 01:52:18 pm »
There's a Bolt in Wpg at a dealer...$53g. And we have had a TON of hydro money...and not one single rebate to dole out to help convince people to buy electric cars (none I've heard of anyway)  Ouch.  I would love an electric/hybrid for commuting, considering how much I spend on gas every year, I wonder how long it would pan out in the end.  A Volt might be nice too...but instead, I'm getting an Instant Pot and going to re-market it as an electro-hydrogenous power convertor and then I'm going to be rich!  After that I'm buying a SINGER, and then it's "fack all ya alls!!" to everybody!

That's what I'm doing.

Offline Smart Electric

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #188 on: December 14, 2017, 08:09:54 pm »
how can you sit there with a straight face saying $94K is affordable?

Compared to it's premium competition, it's affordable, and the best seller.

A mid range Mercedes SUV is similar in ownership cost to the Tesla you listed.
$90K + $5K in electricity vs $60K and $30K in gas over a 10 year stretch.  Pretty close.

The average price of the two cars in my driveway is pretty close to the average of any two other cars on my street.   Many have two $30K cars ($60K total) that cost thousands more to fuel per year, that's roughly the same to own and operate as the two cars in my driveway.

Affordable, according to the Toronto neighborhood I live in, absolutely.

With the 10 additional superchargers put up on the routes we drive, we won't be paying much to fuel it, that's for sure.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #189 on: December 14, 2017, 08:43:54 pm »
how can you sit there with a straight face saying $94K is affordable?

Compared to it's premium competition, it's affordable, and the best seller.

A mid range Mercedes SUV is similar in ownership cost to the Tesla you listed.
$90K + $5K in electricity vs $60K and $30K in gas over a 10 year stretch.  Pretty close.

The average price of the two cars in my driveway is pretty close to the average of any two other cars on my street.   Many have two $30K cars ($60K total) that cost thousands more to fuel per year, that's roughly the same to own and operate as the two cars in my driveway.

Affordable, according to the Toronto neighborhood I live in, absolutely.

With the 10 additional superchargers put up on the routes we drive, we won't be paying much to fuel it, that's for sure.

Just because the car is affordable for 1%ers, it doesn't mean it's an affordable car.

The Tesla S is NOT an affordable car.

Online Gurgie

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #190 on: December 15, 2017, 08:57:23 am »
how can you sit there with a straight face saying $94K is affordable?

Compared to it's premium competition, it's affordable, and the best seller.

A mid range Mercedes SUV is similar in ownership cost to the Tesla you listed.
$90K + $5K in electricity vs $60K and $30K in gas over a 10 year stretch.  Pretty close.

The average price of the two cars in my driveway is pretty close to the average of any two other cars on my street.   Many have two $30K cars ($60K total) that cost thousands more to fuel per year, that's roughly the same to own and operate as the two cars in my driveway.

Affordable, according to the Toronto neighborhood I live in, absolutely.

With the 10 additional superchargers put up on the routes we drive, we won't be paying much to fuel it, that's for sure.

Just because the car is affordable for 1%ers, it doesn't mean it's an affordable car.

The Tesla S is NOT an affordable car.

 :iagree:

Just did a quick search on Autotrader & the cheapest Tesla is a 4yr old Model S at $67k... with 78k kms on the odometer (http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Tesla/Model+S/Cowansville/Quebec/5_35616797_20130529131229896/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=28_15_28). That's not reasonable at all for most people on a used car. I like a good deal & this is not a good deal at all! Comparison wise, my 2015 JGC cost me $20k less & had 1,200kms on the odometer, and lets say it costs me roughly $1450/yr to run ($100/month in fuel & $250/yr for oil change), so in 13.7yrs it will cost me $20k to run.... I'll probably get rid of it in 5yrs though, so $7,250 to run... long way away from the $20k difference in price.
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Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #191 on: December 15, 2017, 09:13:34 am »
how can you sit there with a straight face saying $94K is affordable?

Compared to it's premium competition, it's affordable, and the best seller.

A mid range Mercedes SUV is similar in ownership cost to the Tesla you listed.
$90K + $5K in electricity vs $60K and $30K in gas over a 10 year stretch.  Pretty close.

The average price of the two cars in my driveway is pretty close to the average of any two other cars on my street.   Many have two $30K cars ($60K total) that cost thousands more to fuel per year, that's roughly the same to own and operate as the two cars in my driveway.

Affordable, according to the Toronto neighborhood I live in, absolutely.

With the 10 additional superchargers put up on the routes we drive, we won't be paying much to fuel it, that's for sure.

Just because the car is affordable for 1%ers, it doesn't mean it's an affordable car.

The Tesla S is NOT an affordable car.
:iagree:

to argue anything to the contrary is just idiotic

plus any cost equations that require you to own a car for 300k kms or 10 years is a very poor and unrealistic proposition

now a $40k Model 3, that is in the reach of a lot more people

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2017, 05:55:32 pm »




now a $40k Model 3, that is in the reach of a lot more people

But even that is still stretching the word "affordable".

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #193 on: December 15, 2017, 06:10:28 pm »




now a $40k Model 3, that is in the reach of a lot more people

But even that is still stretching the word "affordable".

this is true, perhaps "more affordable" is appropriate

$40k is roughly loaded Accord or base model Audi territory - fits right in I guess where the Model 3 is trying to compete

Offline kevlar

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #194 on: December 15, 2017, 08:26:38 pm »

The base model 3 wonít be 40k in Canada. Itís going to be more like 47-48k. Since the base int is going to look like a Sentra nobody is going to buy that and most of them will be Awd so expect the average model 3 to be in the 60k dollars range. If you do buy a base model I am thinking you better drive that thing into the ground because it wonít be a good resale.   

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2017, 08:30:41 pm »

The base model 3 wonít be 40k in Canada. Itís going to be more like 47-48k. Since the base int is going to look like a Sentra nobody is going to buy that and most of them will be Awd so expect the average model 3 to be in the 60k dollars range. If you do buy a base model I am thinking you better drive that thing into the ground because it wonít be a good resale.

I am getting a base model, I don't need anything more than that. Maybe AWD, but that is it and depends on how much it is for the upgrade.

I should have said ~$40k RANGE for the base model.

Offline Tauri13

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #196 on: December 15, 2017, 10:26:00 pm »

The base model 3 wonít be 40k in Canada. Itís going to be more like 47-48k. Since the base int is going to look like a Sentra nobody is going to buy that and most of them will be Awd so expect the average model 3 to be in the 60k dollars range. If you do buy a base model I am thinking you better drive that thing into the ground because it wonít be a good resale.

I am getting a base model, I don't need anything more than that. Maybe AWD, but that is it and depends on how much it is for the upgrade.

I should have said ~$40k RANGE for the base model.

Hopefully they will offer a radio as part of the base package lol


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Offline EV Dan

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #197 on: December 15, 2017, 10:35:49 pm »

The base model 3 wonít be 40k in Canada. Itís going to be more like 47-48k. Since the base int is going to look like a Sentra nobody is going to buy that and most of them will be Awd so expect the average model 3 to be in the 60k dollars range. If you do buy a base model I am thinking you better drive that thing into the ground because it wonít be a good resale.

I am getting a base model, I don't need anything more than that. Maybe AWD, but that is it and depends on how much it is for the upgrade.

I should have said ~$40k RANGE for the base model.

Hopefully they will offer a radio as part of the base package lol


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Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #198 on: December 15, 2017, 10:40:58 pm »

The base model 3 wonít be 40k in Canada. Itís going to be more like 47-48k. Since the base int is going to look like a Sentra nobody is going to buy that and most of them will be Awd so expect the average model 3 to be in the 60k dollars range. If you do buy a base model I am thinking you better drive that thing into the ground because it wonít be a good resale.

I am getting a base model, I don't need anything more than that. Maybe AWD, but that is it and depends on how much it is for the upgrade.

I should have said ~$40k RANGE for the base model.

Hopefully they will offer a radio as part of the base package lol


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I have seen on some build sheets that FM/streaming radio is standard.

If it is not, that is a very near deal breaker.

Offline kevlar

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt
« Reply #199 on: December 16, 2017, 06:58:28 am »
By the time the model 3 starts hitting Canada I bet the longer range Nissan Leaf will be here and it will cost quite a bit less and it's built by a real auto manufacturer.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 08:43:36 am by kevlar »