Author Topic: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?  (Read 2409 times)

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2017, 11:08:31 am »
yeah brit, i get your point. (and my comment regarding those types of customers wasn't directed at you!).

but when you mention something like heritage... part of the heritage is the toledo plant... that made tanks and stuff during the war while it churned out jeeps... still where every wrangler has been made ever since.

the renegade is made in italy... on an alfa platform... that is fwd based... with a german transmission...

really going against the heritage if i do say so myself. your mentioning of porsche is kind of funny... even on a base model... or a luxury model... or a sedan.. or an suv, their purpose is to be a high end sports car. drivelines are all geared towards being similar... more power, rwd based, driver first. porsche is probably the worst brand you could have picked!

under the jeep brand, there are engines for efficiency, for torque, for hp, for racing, for towing... paired with fwd, rwd, awd, 4x4... unibody or body on frame... vehicles meant to sell in the mid teens to vehicles over 100000 grand. they are all over the place.

Fair point, a lot of the brand heritage is in the styling on the Renegade.  Isn't that true of most manufacturers though?  You're making it sound like the Alfa platform and ZF transmission are a bad thing.  The Alfa Giulietta is a great little car and if you didn't have that modern platform to use, you would still be using the Dodge Caliber platform...  The ZF, particularly the 8-speed is used by many of the world's best luxury vehicles...it's a great transmission.  Dodge don't exactly have the best rep for transmissions anyway do they?  Why did I get rid of my 2001 Grand Cherokee?  The transmission s*** itself!  Also, it's a transverse engine platform, so better for packaging in a smaller vehicle and hence the need for a front-biased AWD system.  You could make a "proper" body-on-frame small SUV with low-range and diff locks and all that but then you would end up with a Suzuki Jimny and believe me, you wouldn't want that!  It could be quite expensive and not very competitive with other manufacturers.  Don't get me wrong, the Jimny is a very rugged little SUV that has the potential to shame a Land Rover Defender off-road but you wouldn't want to spend any length of time on the highway in one.  I've owned a Fiat 500 and I wouldn't say the Renegade drives anything like that, it still has a Jeep character and feel to it in my opinion.  We could go on and extend this to the Grand Cherokee (and Chrysler 300), which run on Mercedes-Benz platforms, which leaves the Wrangler as the only "pure" Jeep.  It's very cool and iconic (not unlike the Land Rover Defender) but it's not going to be suitable for everyone.

Platform-sharing has made Jeep more accessible as a brand.  Look at Land Rover in comparison.  Since its divorce from British Leyland and subsequently Austin Rover, Rover, BMW and Ford, they don't have any "cheaper" brands to borrow stuff from.  The Freelander used to be their entry-level model...and was based on the same platform as the subcompact Rover 200 and used Rover engines.  The use of Rover switchgear in the interior was also pretty obvious.  Not a great car really but it was quite affordable.  Today, you can get an Evoque or Discovery Sport and maybe they feel a bit more luxurious and "bespoke" but you won't get much change from $50k even for a relatively basic one.  Like the Renegade/Compass/Cherokee, some might also say that these two models aren't "proper" Land Rovers but like Jeeps, AWD/4WD Land Rovers all have a modicum of off-road ability.  Oh, and they use the same "German" transmissions as Jeep!  Land Rover have done alright in recent years and they now have three platforms to build on but if they had been part of a bigger group, then they might have been able to expand a bit quicker.  The Defender cool and iconic though it was, was pretty badly built and in most objective measures not very good, plus quite expensive to build due to its traditional construction.  Still no sign of a replacement though.

I'll stick by my guns re Porsche.  Don't forget that Porsche is a member of the VW group.  To be fair, I think that the original Panamera might have been all Porsche but scratch the surface of the new one and you'll find an Audi A8, likewise the Macan is based on an Audi Q5 and a Cayenne on a VW Touareg and they're built on the same production line in Bratislava in Germa...no wait, Slovakia!  They even share some V6 gasoline and diesel engines.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily and I'm sure that the Porsche engineers have made some tweaks to make them a sharper drive but a 2 ton diesel automatic Macan with a VW/Audi engine is pretty far removed from my ideals of what a Porsche should be like.  With regards to pricing, it's just as diverse if not more so, just starting at a higher level.  $55k for a basic Macan up to $300k+ for a 911 GT2 RS (doesn't look like you can buy a 918 anymore which would have been even more).



Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2017, 11:12:25 am »
have you sat in one?

when people talk about those and how nice they are, it really makes me wonder... those interiors are the epitome of hard plastic and the "rock bottom" that was hit for chrysler interiors. compared with some other ones out there (looking at you mazda and subaru) they are still not that far from some newer interiors, but i never found them a nice place to be.

kick ass power though. beats the newer ones in the quarter.

Yeah, I thought the exterior and interior on the WK GC was a backward step from my WJ.  The SRT8 has undeniable appeal but really looking for something newer, more reliable and less risk for my money.

Back OT, I do really like the 2011- Grand Cherokee and the (2014-?) facelift interior does look like an improvement on my BIL's 2011.  Is this also when it got the 8-speed?  Is the 2014 the electronic shifter and when did they switch back to a more conventional shifter?  What's that electronic shifter like to use (I've only driven a Cadillac XT5, which might be kind of similar)?  Also, accepting that I'm probably going to have to "downgrade" to a Laredo to stay in budget on an 8-speed GC, what features am I going to be missing out on (and what features will I get I suppose)? :)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:41:07 am by BritWRX »

Offline No-san

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2017, 12:22:17 pm »
you would end up with a Suzuki Jimny and believe me, you wouldn't want that!
I drove one for 9 hours around Cuba back in...fak me, 2009!!!  It was wicked fun, and a manual ;D

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2017, 12:25:19 pm »
you would end up with a Suzuki Jimny and believe me, you wouldn't want that!
I drove one for 9 hours around Cuba back in...fak me, 2009!!!  It was wicked fun, and a manual ;D

On the right roads, yes.  On a 3 hour motorway/highway journey, no!  Especially with the soft top flapping around like a tent in a gale! :)

Offline No-san

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2017, 01:23:00 pm »
Oh, believe me...when I said, "fun", I wasn't referring to the safety or secure feeling that the car didn't impart...

...but we did ford a few rivers, and it was manual.  I actually did enjoy it quite thoroughly because of the rowing of gears.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2017, 04:18:38 pm »
I would think buying a used SRT-8 requires balls of steel or at the very least a large reserve fund.  Those vehicles can't have been treated nicely.
It depends. The first one linked looks like it was owned by a fanatical owner.

And merely driving a vehicle as it was intended doesn't mean it was abused. This a burly V8 with a robust AWD...getting on the loud pedal would be no biggie.

My Supra literally has dozens upon dozens of dyno runs and hundreds of track passes. And it was still immaculate in every way.

In the end, it's due diligence when buying a car...not that the car was high performance.

I mean...was your FIL 911TT a pile of :censor: because the intended use of that car isn't exactly a grocery getter. No...I'm guessing it was still mint the day he sold it.

So I stand by my suggestion. The poster at times has said he loves muscle cars. He also wants a jeep. The SRT 8 scratches both of those itches. Sure it's older, but I've seen many pristine examples....seems as those many of these are owned by fanatics.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 04:21:13 pm by rrocket »
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline No-san

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2017, 04:28:07 pm »
Fair points.  Way to hit close to home :P

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2017, 04:33:33 pm »
I would think buying a used SRT-8 requires balls of steel or at the very least a large reserve fund.  Those vehicles can't have been treated nicely.
It depends. The first one linked looks like it was owned by a fanatical owner.

And merely driving a vehicle as it was intended doesn't mean it was abused. This a burly V8 with a robust AWD...getting on the loud pedal would be no biggie.

My Supra literally has dozens upon dozens of dyno runs and hundreds of track passes. And it was still immaculate in every way.

In the end, it's due diligence when buying a car...not that the car was high performance.

I mean...was your FIL 911TT a pile of :censor: because the intended use of that car isn't exactly a grocery getter. No...I'm guessing it was still mint the day he sold it.

So I stand by my suggestion. The poster at times has said he loves muscle cars. He also wants a jeep. The SRT 8 scratches both of those itches. Sure it's older, but I've seen many pristine examples....seems as those many of these are owned by fanatics.

Ok thanks.  Yes, ideally, I would have a Jeep for my everyday/winter car and a muscle car for fun/summer but it has to be one car (with the Jeep being the more sensible option overall).  An SRT8 does indeed tick both of those boxes to a certain extent.  I don't see any SRT8s of that vintage for sale in MB at the moment but I'll certainly look out for one! :)

Does the SRT8 package compromise its ability in snow and ice?  I'm assuming that it's terrible on gas...  Horrible interior and I'm not sure what they were thinking with those front headlights but it does exude a certain menace and cool. :)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:04:59 pm by BritWRX »

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2017, 04:50:42 pm »
lets be honest... brit is like most... we talk a big game, but as much as we *want* certain things, the reality is that practicality and budget are the main things...

pretty sure brit is the kind of person with a grand caravan and a used civic/corolla in the driveway.  srt8 just doesn't make sense.

i used to be addicted to soap, but i'm clean now

Offline rrocket

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2017, 04:58:24 pm »
lets be honest... brit is like most... we talk a big game, but as much as we *want* certain things, the reality is that practicality and budget are the main things...

pretty sure brit is the kind of person with a grand caravan and a used civic/corolla in the driveway.  srt8 just doesn't make sense.
That's precisely why you own an SRT8!

Because in its own way it doesn't make sense.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2017, 09:27:08 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)
After 9 long years the SACK of SH*T is finally gone.  150 Billion p*ssed away.  An economy gutted.  DEAD HEADS .... big congrats.

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2017, 01:10:19 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2017, 09:45:00 am »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.


Offline Gurgie

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2017, 09:52:08 am »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.

Yep!!!! Buy something already for fack sakes!!!!  :rofl:  Actually you've had the Mini for how long now? 8 months? And you're planning a purchase 12months out from now & are trying to decide on it now? WTF!!!?? I get saying you're gonna buy in 12 months & starting to save for said purchase & then maybe 2 months out you start to decide, but this is a little nutty!!  :-\
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Offline tooscoops

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2017, 02:14:24 pm »
i get customers in all the time "thinking about possibly a ____ come summer".... great. even better when it's a used one i have on my lot.

narrowing down some stuff on-line is fine to a point, but it becomes paralysis by analysis...

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2018, 04:31:33 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.

Yep!!!! Buy something already for fack sakes!!!!  :rofl:  Actually you've had the Mini for how long now? 8 months? And you're planning a purchase 12months out from now & are trying to decide on it now? WTF!!!?? I get saying you're gonna buy in 12 months & starting to save for said purchase & then maybe 2 months out you start to decide, but this is a little nutty!!  :-\

Bit unnecessary.  I've actually had the MINI since October 2016.  I bought three vehicles in 2013, one in 2014, one in 2015 and two in 2016, so yeah, I am going to buy again at some point and my last post was 3 months ago, so hardly that prolific!  I've made a few mistakes in my recent purchases though (not the Grand Caravan and MINI I might add), so don't want to go rushing in without thinking things through and I hate losing money.  A big thank you to those who have offered helpful advice.  I thought this was a motoring enthusiasts forum and I have to say that I find some of the abuse unhelpful and unnecessary and some members a bit aggressive and not very friendly.  If you want to weigh in with some helpful information/advice then thank you, that is most welcome but if you don't have anything useful to say, then sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.  I thought that I offered you some good advice on Grand Caravans a few months ago when you were contemplating one (or maybe that was someone else), so I like to think I contribute too and sometimes it's just interesting to have the discussion.     
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 04:35:28 pm by BritWRX »

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2018, 04:54:10 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.

Yep!!!! Buy something already for fack sakes!!!!  :rofl:  Actually you've had the Mini for how long now? 8 months? And you're planning a purchase 12months out from now & are trying to decide on it now? WTF!!!?? I get saying you're gonna buy in 12 months & starting to save for said purchase & then maybe 2 months out you start to decide, but this is a little nutty!!  :-\

Bit unnecessary.  I've actually had the MINI since October 2016.  I bought three vehicles in 2013, one in 2014, one in 2015 and two in 2016, so yeah, I am going to buy again at some point and my last post was 3 months ago, so hardly that prolific!  I've made a few mistakes in my recent purchases though (not the Grand Caravan and MINI I might add), so don't want to go rushing in without thinking things through and I hate losing money.  A big thank you to those who have offered helpful advice.  I thought this was a motoring enthusiasts forum and I have to say that I find some of the abuse unhelpful and unnecessary and some members a bit aggressive and not very friendly.  If you want to weigh in with some helpful information/advice then thank you, that is most welcome but if you don't have anything useful to say, then sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.  I thought that I offered you some good advice on Grand Caravans a few months ago when you were contemplating one (or maybe that was someone else), so I like to think I contribute too and sometimes it's just interesting to have the discussion.    

You did, and you do.  My intent was not to alienate you or insult you, so for that, I sincerely apologize.  Sometimes I come off a little brusque.

You have to admit...you DO like to kick a lot of proverbial tires...

Offline BritWRX

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2018, 05:06:31 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.

Yep!!!! Buy something already for fack sakes!!!!  :rofl:  Actually you've had the Mini for how long now? 8 months? And you're planning a purchase 12months out from now & are trying to decide on it now? WTF!!!?? I get saying you're gonna buy in 12 months & starting to save for said purchase & then maybe 2 months out you start to decide, but this is a little nutty!!  :-\

Bit unnecessary.  I've actually had the MINI since October 2016.  I bought three vehicles in 2013, one in 2014, one in 2015 and two in 2016, so yeah, I am going to buy again at some point and my last post was 3 months ago, so hardly that prolific!  I've made a few mistakes in my recent purchases though (not the Grand Caravan and MINI I might add), so don't want to go rushing in without thinking things through and I hate losing money.  A big thank you to those who have offered helpful advice.  I thought this was a motoring enthusiasts forum and I have to say that I find some of the abuse unhelpful and unnecessary and some members a bit aggressive and not very friendly.  If you want to weigh in with some helpful information/advice then thank you, that is most welcome but if you don't have anything useful to say, then sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.  I thought that I offered you some good advice on Grand Caravans a few months ago when you were contemplating one (or maybe that was someone else), so I like to think I contribute too and sometimes it's just interesting to have the discussion.    

You did, and you do.  My intent was not to alienate you or insult you, so for that, I sincerely apologize.  Sometimes I come off a little brusque.

You have to admit...you DO like to kick a lot of proverbial tires...

No problem and I always appreciate your insight as a fellow Manitoban :) Fair point, I can see why sometimes I might come across that way but as an ex-car salesman myself, I hate wasting their time.  I have only done two test drives in the last five years when I didn't buy something.  One was a 2000 Impala, which was a piece of crap and that he hadn't bothered to tidy up even though he knew I was coming and the other a new Fiesta, which I probably would have bought if they had been able to get me one with a manual transmission and not the crappy Powershift.  Never mind, the MINI came along later and satisfied my requirements and I think that I prefer it to the Fiesta too.

I have two best friends that have been talking about changing their vehicles ever since I have know them (3 and 5 years respectively) and even done a fair few test drives, so yeah, it can be a little bit annoying when someone talks a "big game" and nothing ever comes of it...:)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2018, 05:09:39 pm »
  Sometimes I come off a little brusque.


My favorite quality of yours...

Offline Airbalancer

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Re: Which (newish) Jeep should I buy for $20-$30k?
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2018, 05:11:47 pm »
Lets put a buy deadline on this buy.  90 days ?   :)

Haha.  To be fair, I never said I was going to buy tomorrow!  Give me 12 months at least!  This thread has helped me narrow down my options a bit anyway.  Someone at work has just got a Cherokee Trailhawk, so I've gone off that option a bit now.  I do still like the Renegade but the Grand Cherokee is probably the option that I'm currently favouring.  I'll update as and when it happens anyway. :)

To be fair, you've started so many 'help me choose what to buy' threads, from Pickup trucks to sporty cars, to SUV's, that we just don't believe you anymore.

No offense, but this is a 'boy who cried wolf' type of situation.

Yep!!!! Buy something already for fack sakes!!!!  :rofl:  Actually you've had the Mini for how long now? 8 months? And you're planning a purchase 12months out from now & are trying to decide on it now? WTF!!!?? I get saying you're gonna buy in 12 months & starting to save for said purchase & then maybe 2 months out you start to decide, but this is a little nutty!!  :-\

Bit unnecessary.  I've actually had the MINI since October 2016.  I bought three vehicles in 2013, one in 2014, one in 2015 and two in 2016, so yeah, I am going to buy again at some point and my last post was 3 months ago, so hardly that prolific!  I've made a few mistakes in my recent purchases though (not the Grand Caravan and MINI I might add), so don't want to go rushing in without thinking things through and I hate losing money.  A big thank you to those who have offered helpful advice.  I thought this was a motoring enthusiasts forum and I have to say that I find some of the abuse unhelpful and unnecessary and some members a bit aggressive and not very friendly.  If you want to weigh in with some helpful information/advice then thank you, that is most welcome but if you don't have anything useful to say, then sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.  I thought that I offered you some good advice on Grand Caravans a few months ago when you were contemplating one (or maybe that was someone else), so I like to think I contribute too and sometimes it's just interesting to have the discussion.     
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