Topic: Comparison Test: Best Fuel Efficient Cars

[Fobroader]

The CX-5 wins for my money. A larger vehicle that nearly achieved the much maligned Transport Canada numbers and while the test vehicle was $30k, they start under $23k with a manual and would likely get better numbers yet in the FWD/manual configuration. And it's said to be relatively fun to drive, something many of these tested vehicles aren't know for being. Great test, good read. The Golf (or a Jetta TDI) also figures very highly into the equation of mpg/$spent.

The VW TDi's are the ones for me. Seems that all the other hybrids are overcomplicating a simple solution, a well tuned, efficient diesel is just as good as a hybrid. Plus, I only like to plug my cars in when it gets to below -25C overnight.

[sailor723]

The CX-5 wins for my money. A larger vehicle that nearly achieved the much maligned Transport Canada numbers and while the test vehicle was $30k, they start under $23k with a manual and would likely get better numbers yet in the FWD/manual configuration. And it's said to be relatively fun to drive, something many of these tested vehicles aren't know for being. Great test, good read. The Golf (or a Jetta TDI) also figures very highly into the equation of mpg/$spent.

Funny...I would have put the Mazda last. The whole Skyactive thing seems to make major compromises with performance in return for fuel economy. I don't think I've read a single review of the CX-5 that didn't comment on it being quite badly underpowered. I guess it depends on where you fall on the graph of economy vs performance trade-offs

[tpl]

The CX-5 wins for my money. A larger vehicle that nearly achieved the much maligned Transport Canada numbers and while the test vehicle was $30k, they start under $23k with a manual and would likely get better numbers yet in the FWD/manual configuration. And it's said to be relatively fun to drive, something many of these tested vehicles aren't know for being. Great test, good read. The Golf (or a Jetta TDI) also figures very highly into the equation of mpg/$spent.

Funny...I would have put the Mazda last. The whole Skyactive thing seems to make major compromises with performance in return for fuel economy. I don't think I've read a single review of the CX-5 that didn't comment on it being quite badly underpowered. I guess it depends on where you fall on the graph of economy vs performance trade-offs

I read that we get a watered down SkyActiv engine  because of our poor quality gasoline. Lower compression etc. I translate that as really saying that the high compression ratio really needs our premium gas but Mazda know they will lose sales if they specify that.

[nsmyhte]

Once again a Hyundai fails to deliver what it promises on paper.  This is no surprise to me at all.  The driveability, refinement and real world fuel economy just aren't as good as Toyota hybrids.

[Neromanceres]

I'd be interested to know what kind of loss per unit GM is taking on those 10,000 Volts they sold last year.

 10,000 Volts      i'm at a LOSS as is GM...shocked shocked i tell ya ..rename it the SOLYNDRA-VOLT..............keeps the Politicians outta THE kar buziness EH........................$8,000 PLUS OF MY TAXES GOING TO THIS BOONDOGGLE!!!!!............HELL make tesla S cars $45Grand an i'll buy one.......... .......so the Conclusion early century diesel WINS the PRIZE..............

GM has sold over 30,000 Volts/Amperas World wide so far (currently selling over 3000 a month world wide the last few months).

Also the former CEO has stated the Volt is being sold at a profit. I do think the figures below are post tax credit.

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2010/01/gm_ceo_states_that_chevy_volt.html

[carcrazed]

Once again a Hyundai fails to deliver what it promises on paper.  This is no surprise to me at all.  The driveability, refinement and real world fuel economy just aren't as good as Toyota hybrids.

Well to be fair, this is Hyundai's first stab at hybrid cars.  I don't think Toyota had their first hybrid model's drivetrain since day one, either.  At least Hyundai is doing something different with Li-ion battery.
Over time, I think it will get better for Hyundai and other potential hybrid car makers.

Great article BTW.

[Jaeger]

Tip of the hat for another comprehensive review, guys.  Particularly when it comes to comparisons, you guys do as well or better than the big print mags, IMO.

[sailor723]

Tip of the hat for another comprehensive review, guys.  Particularly when it comes to comparisons, you guys do as well or better than the big print mags, IMO.

I agree. I imagine putting these kind of comparison reviews together must be a bit of a logistical nightmare but they really add value to this site IMO.  Thanks

[Mike]

Tip of the hat for another comprehensive review, guys.  Particularly when it comes to comparisons, you guys do as well or better than the big print mags, IMO.

I agree. I imagine putting these kind of comparison reviews together must be a bit of a logistical nightmare but they really add value to this site IMO.  Thanks

You have that right.  It is usually like this:

Me "Jonathan, we need to go to Hyundai in my Miata, leave it there, drive to Mazda in the Sonata Hybrid and pick up the CX-5"
Jonathan "I thought we were taking the Miata to Toyota to pick up the Prius, then driving out VW to also pick up the Golf TDI"
Me "Crap, hmmm....oh yeah...I also have a Veloster Turbo this week.  When are we gong to get that?"


In fact, big thanks to 'Force' who allowed us to pick up the Veloster Turbo and Sonata Hybrid early to make life easier on us.

[tpl]

I'd be interested to know what kind of loss per unit GM is taking on those 10,000 Volts they sold last year.

 10,000 Volts      i'm at a LOSS as is GM...shocked shocked i tell ya ..rename it the SOLYNDRA-VOLT..............keeps the Politicians outta THE kar buziness EH........................$8,000 PLUS OF MY TAXES GOING TO THIS BOONDOGGLE!!!!!............HELL make tesla S cars $45Grand an i'll buy one.......... .......so the Conclusion early century diesel WINS the PRIZE..............

GM has sold over 30,000 Volts/Amperas World wide so far (currently selling over 3000 a month world wide the last few months).

Also the former CEO has stated the Volt is being sold at a profit. I do think the figures below are post tax credit.

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2010/01/gm_ceo_states_that_chevy_volt.html

I note that the comments to that article are 3 years old...I presume the article is 2009 or 2010 also, before the Volt went on sale.
The sales numbers that are interesting are those for North America. 

[Neromanceres]

I note that the comments to that article are 3 years old...I presume the article is 2009 or 2010 also, before the Volt went on sale.
The sales numbers that are interesting are those for North America.

Well currently in North America they have sold 10,000 units this calender year alone.  This does not include the 2011 sales of the Volt.  Right now in North America they are selling around 2000 units a month.  The Volumes for the Volt are higher than the corvette.

[markierant]

That sentence in the Volt page about the range extender "charging the battery". From what I have read about the Volt it just keeps the battery charge from dropping below a certain point and does not recharge the battery .  I think it would be a useful thing under some circumstances to be able to run the engine to recharge the battery while the car is stationary but that might require a wholesale redo of the engine cooling system.

You are correct.  I think that is what Jonathan was getting at.  Engine charges batteries enough to keep the engine running.  I agree though, if it could also charge the battery at the same time this car would be even better

Want to add one more thing here - Volt's engine can directly provide power to the wheels.  i.e. direct connection to the wheels

engadget%com/2010/10/11/shocker-chevy-says-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its/

[tpl]

^^^ Yep I didn't bother to mention that as it is only at high speed when the  electric motor efficiency drops off.

[markierant]

A much better explanation courtesy of Popular Mechanics.

There are two electric motors—a 149 horsepower primary drive motor and a 74-hp motor/generator—and a 1.4-liter internal combustion (ICE) gas engine. All three elements are connected via a planetary gearset.
 
Planetary gearsets—which are common elements of automatic transmissions—are ingenious devices that have three meshed elements: A sun gear in the middle, a ring gear with internal teeth and smaller planet gears between the two which are joined together by a carrier. Alternating the speed and direction of the various elements changes the ratio between the inputs and outputs.
 
In the case of the Volt, the main output is the driven front wheels, which are connected to the planet carrier. The large drive motor is affixed directly to the sun gear. The ring gear is where things get interesting.
 
One clutch connects the ring gear to the transmission case and when engaged, it stops the ring gear from rotating. A second clutch joins the smaller motor/generator to the ring gear. A third clutch combines the engine crankshaft to the motor/generator.

At low speeds and with a fully charged battery, the ring-gear clutch is engaged and the main electric motor routes power to the front wheels. As vehicle speeds increase to about 70 mph, the main electric motor starts to fall out of its most efficient operating range so then two things happen: The ring-gear clutch opens, and the motor/generator clutch connects the second motor to the ring gear. Then both motors power the car.
 
When the battery is depleted, the operation slightly shifts. Again at low speeds, the ring gear is locked in place via its clutch but now the clutch between the engine and the motor/generator closes, which spins the generator to supply the electricity. This setup is known as a series hybrid because the gas engine does not directly power the wheels.
 
But the Volt isn't always a series hybrid. Once the speed climbs to about 70 mph, the motor/generator again couples to the ring gear but now—in "charge-sustaining" mode—the smaller electric motor is also affixed to the running gas engine. In effect, the gas engine supplies power directly to the transmission, which is just like a parallel hybrid.
 
This last mode has caused some consternation because over the Volt's development GM has stated that the gas engine never directly powers the car. While that's not entirely true, there are a few things to keep in mind. The first is that the car can't move solely on the gas engine—if the main electric motor quits, the car will be stranded. Secondly, the engine routes its power through the motor/generator.
 

[tpl]

I note that the comments to that article are 3 years old...I presume the article is 2009 or 2010 also, before the Volt went on sale.
The sales numbers that are interesting are those for North America.

Well currently in North America they have sold 10,000 units this calender year alone.  This does not include the 2011 sales of the Volt.  Right now in North America they are selling around 2000 units a month.  The Volumes for the Volt are higher than the corvette.

Indeed
"A total of 3,035 Mercedes-Benz passenger cars and luxury light trucks were sold in June, which is ahead 8.9% for the month. With 15,944 units delivered year-to-date, overall sales showed a gain of 9.9% or 1,441 units.
Passenger car sales added up to 1,749 units in June, which was ahead 2.4% for the month and fueled by strong C-Class, E-Class, CLS-Class, S-Class and SL-Class sales. An impressive total of 1,126 C-Class Sedans and Coupes were retailed in Canada in June, while S-Class sales were also up a notable 17.6% for the month."
"BMW.
The BMW brand reported 15,339 units year-to-date, representing an increase of 6.1 per cent over last year.  For the month of June, the BMW brand reported 3,288 units retailed, a decrease of 6.4 per cent compared to June, 2011. June saw strong sales of the 5 Series, X1 and X3 Sports Activity Vehicles."


Numbers for Canada only from Conwelpic's thread.    I used those two on purpose as their products generally cost more than a Volt and maybe are bought or leased by a similar demographic...I freely admit I am guessing there.

Don't get me wrong Neromanceres, I am not rubbishing your car, I think is is a great piece of engineering and shows what Chevrolet engineers can do when they are allowed to do it.   I waiting to see when there will be some variants on that powertrain design, like the Prius V and C for example.

Just for my interest, what does the manual say about towing? I would imagine it says not to.

[Neromanceres]

In short the Volt's engine does not directly power the wheels.  Ever.  But in one mode it can apply torque to the outer ring gear of the planetary gearset to improve efficiency.

If people want to know more on how the Volt works here is a 36 minute video of how the Volt works from GM Volt Chief Powertrain Engineer Pamela Fletcher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9-9atMw6Zs

And here is a great article by green car congress:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/10/chevy-volt-delivers-novel-two-motor-four-mode-extended-range-electric-drive-system-seamless-driver-e.html

To me as an engineer the Volt powertrain is stupid simple.  I actually think the Volt powertrain is far more simple than running gas engines with super complicated transmissions.

[Neromanceres]

Don't get me wrong Neromanceres, I am not rubbishing your car, I think is is a great piece of engineering and shows what Chevrolet engineers can do when they are allowed to do it.   I waiting to see when there will be some variants on that powertrain design, like the Prius V and C for example.

Just for my interest, what does the manual say about towing? I would imagine it says not to.

Oh I know that your not intentionally trying to bash the car.  There is just so much misinformation out their around the Volt and I guess i'm trying to correct people.

The Volt is really a no comprimise solution.  Plug it in, Don't plug it in whatever.  It has 100% performance 100% of the time and gives you the best feature of an electric car while doing it.

The Volt manual does not recommend towing.  But I would imagine that is a limit of the car platform more so than the powertrain.

[my2cents]

I skimmed the article because in my head a voice kept saying "these are all obsolete".

The reason is that from what is happening now to what will be available in 4 or 5 years when I start shopping almost eliminates these vehicles.

On Vancouver Island a Saskatchewan company is supplying "refueling stations" in enough areas that driving an electric car from one end of the island to the other is possible (north to south) as well as to the west coast.

This covers all but the remotest parts on the north west coast.

Oregon has the I5 highway covered every 25 miles.

One guy drove from Mexico to Vancouver in a Leaf using no gas.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=198034

or watch the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFu1_d5uqZ4

Give me a Tesla for $30000 and I'll be happy.

[Neromanceres]

I am no engineer but I hope you're right.  In my experience, once electrical gremlins materialize the technicians are fond of reporting back with "cannot replicate, therefore cannot fix"...and that is with older technology that one would have thought is better understood than the Volt.

I hope i'm right too  .

Trouble shooting the wiring is usually the hardest part. The wiring for the powertrain is actually not that complicated. The complicated part is the variable frequency 3 phase AC to DC power converter in the Volt.  But hey GM has been running those for a decade in hybrid busses so I'm not too worried.  And it's covered by an 8 year 160K km warranty.

My biggest concern is the failing of the LCD screens or capacitive touch switchgear.

[tpl]

I would worry more about all the assorted sensors and fans and stuff that deals with battery temperature and the charging circuitry.