Topic: Value advice

[Gurgie]

There are ZERO 2011 E90 under 80K on Autotrader in the entire country.
There are two 2011 E90 under 90K on Autotrader in the entire country, asking $16K and $22.5K respectively. Both are either white or black on black.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/st-catharines/2011-bmw-3-series-sunroof/m7773833

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/markham-york-region/2011-bmw-323i/1679737800

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/ville-de-montreal/2011-bmw-3-series-328ixdrive-toit-ouvrant-mags-cuir-bluetooth-85/m7841583

Curious as to how much a difference 323 vs 328 makes?  I've been ignoring323's in any of the searches I've done and looked at cars between 50- 80K. (within 15K of ours)  using those filters (as well as AWD and sedan) there are zero hits on Kijiji within 1000kms of me. 

RWD is the biggest thing. The 323 uses a slightly detuned version of the same N52 engine that the 328i does. Your car is an Executive Pack so it's more loaded, but for the most part, options are largely similar too, and it's hard for most people to differentiate unless someone points it out. So for the average buyer, there's no real difference.

Huh? Detuned version? Dude, you should know better, or I expect you to know better   328i has a 3.0litre inline 6 while the 325i has a 2.5litre inline 6.

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[Dante]

There are ZERO 2011 E90 under 80K on Autotrader in the entire country.
There are two 2011 E90 under 90K on Autotrader in the entire country, asking $16K and $22.5K respectively. Both are either white or black on black.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/st-catharines/2011-bmw-3-series-sunroof/m7773833

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/markham-york-region/2011-bmw-323i/1679737800

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/ville-de-montreal/2011-bmw-3-series-328ixdrive-toit-ouvrant-mags-cuir-bluetooth-85/m7841583

You missed this one which is actually the only one currently on Kijiji comparable (although lesser) to Sailor's:

https://www.kijijiautos.ca/cars/bmw/3-series/used/#vip=28945226

[Dante]

Curious as to how much a difference 323 vs 328 makes?  I've been ignoring323's in any of the searches I've done and looked at cars between 50- 80K. (within 15K of ours)  using those filters (as well as AWD and sedan) there are zero hits on Kijiji within 1000kms of me. 

RWD is the biggest thing. The 323 uses a slightly detuned version of the same N52 engine that the 328i does. Your car is an Executive Pack so it's more loaded, but for the most part, options are largely similar too, and it's hard for most people to differentiate unless someone points it out. So for the average buyer, there's no real difference.

I hope you are joking right? The differences between 323 and even 328i base model vs Exec package are extensive.

The average used car buyer would probably not buy a 13-14 years old BMW so it's a moot point. The average BMW E90 buyer would probably distinguish between a 323 and a 328i, xdrive, packages, etc... plenty of visual hints between trims. Sailor's car would probably target the BMW E90 educated buyer who can appreciate the rare nature of this unit (original owner, maintenance records, low mileage, rare color combo, etc.).

You can downplay it as much as you want from the used car dealer's perspective where it's all numbers, but from the private buyer's perspective specifically looking for a good E90 unit, it's a good and rare find which would/should probably command few extra grand from the run of the mill offerings typically listed online.

Now, on the other hand, there is this one guy with the white manual one currently listed at $22,500 which is out for lunch. He's been trying to sell this car for almost 3 years now (it shows up in my search every time he re-posts it). In '21 he listed it at $28,500, then 6-12 months later $26,500 and now at $22,500.

[TheHire]

There are ZERO 2011 E90 under 80K on Autotrader in the entire country.
There are two 2011 E90 under 90K on Autotrader in the entire country, asking $16K and $22.5K respectively. Both are either white or black on black.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/st-catharines/2011-bmw-3-series-sunroof/m7773833

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/markham-york-region/2011-bmw-323i/1679737800

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/ville-de-montreal/2011-bmw-3-series-328ixdrive-toit-ouvrant-mags-cuir-bluetooth-85/m7841583

Curious as to how much a difference 323 vs 328 makes?  I've been ignoring323's in any of the searches I've done and looked at cars between 50- 80K. (within 15K of ours)  using those filters (as well as AWD and sedan) there are zero hits on Kijiji within 1000kms of me. 

RWD is the biggest thing. The 323 uses a slightly detuned version of the same N52 engine that the 328i does. Your car is an Executive Pack so it's more loaded, but for the most part, options are largely similar too, and it's hard for most people to differentiate unless someone points it out. So for the average buyer, there's no real difference.

Huh? Detuned version? Dude, you should know better, or I expect you to know better   328i has a 3.0litre inline 6 while the 325i has a 2.5litre inline 6.

Sent from my SM-S901W using Tapatalk

Yeah, but same block, just different bores. Both N52 motors, essentially teh same, same failure points, and in the real world they don't feel all that different unless you're driving them back to back on the track (hint: nobody is)

[TheHire]

Curious as to how much a difference 323 vs 328 makes?  I've been ignoring323's in any of the searches I've done and looked at cars between 50- 80K. (within 15K of ours)  using those filters (as well as AWD and sedan) there are zero hits on Kijiji within 1000kms of me. 

RWD is the biggest thing. The 323 uses a slightly detuned version of the same N52 engine that the 328i does. Your car is an Executive Pack so it's more loaded, but for the most part, options are largely similar too, and it's hard for most people to differentiate unless someone points it out. So for the average buyer, there's no real difference.

I hope you are joking right? The differences between 323 and even 328i base model vs Exec package are extensive.

The average used car buyer would probably not buy a 13-14 years old BMW so it's a moot point. The average BMW E90 buyer would probably distinguish between a 323 and a 328i, xdrive, packages, etc... plenty of visual hints between trims. Sailor's car would probably target the BMW E90 educated buyer who can appreciate the rare nature of this unit (original owner, maintenance records, low mileage, rare color combo, etc.).

You can downplay it as much as you want from the used car dealer's perspective where it's all numbers, but from the private buyer's perspective specifically looking for a good E90 unit, it's a good and rare find which would/should probably command few extra grand from the run of the mill offerings typically listed online.

Now, on the other hand, there is this one guy with the white manual one currently listed at $22,500 which is out for lunch. He's been trying to sell this car for almost 3 years now (it shows up in my search every time he re-posts it). In '21 he listed it at $28,500, then 6-12 months later $26,500 and now at $22,500.

I'm not downplaying anything - it's realistic and whether the buyer's or the seller's perspective, it does always boil down to numbers. How many times have you seen people car shop with a "blank cheque", especially when looking for a relatively normal used car?

If he finds a buyer for the cherry example he has, awesome, and no one would be happier to see him get top dollar than I. But with buyers having the option of an "almost just as nice" car for half the money, we know. Remember how little you bought yours for, and then reconditioned to your liking/standards.

[Firm]

These are in a weird spot, which is why you're going to see pricing all over the place....Let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a 15 year old entry level sedan, yeah, they're good driving cars, but it is what it is. The market is younger people looking for a cheap/fun beater, or an enthusiast looking for a bargain...If I am an enthusiast looking for spend top dollar, say $15K, there's a long list of more exciting and driver oriented vehicles that you have access to at that price point. In either case, I think the number of buyers for the top of the market examples is pretty thin.

Since it does sound like Sailor's is one of the better examples out there, and based on the comparable in here, I'd list it for $12,500, with really good photos and description and hope for the best. If someone comes along with anything >$10K, take it and call it a win.

The East coast factor may be a help in this case, fewer listed in the market to drag the prices down...In the GTA these are everywhere so plenty to choose from.

[rrocket]

If I am an enthusiast looking for spend top dollar, say $15K, there's a long list of more exciting and driver oriented vehicles that you have access to at that price point.

Ditto for F-Bodies and old MGs at their price points 

But I hear people like those, too.

[Dante]

How about someone who WANTS and willing to pay a small premium for a very good unit which could give few good years of service for the last BMW with a naturally aspirated I6, hydraulic steering and AWD in a very nice color combo?

In all fairness, this is not an enthusiast car or "the best" $15K car. Actually, "the best" car is a very personal thing which is irrelevant in quantifying what one should buy or pay for.

What's the harm in asking say $14.9K and let it go for $14? The worst could happen is no one offers that much and he sells for whatever he can get. That's the only way to find out what THIS specific car is really worth.

If you don't ask, for sure you don't get, but if you ask, you may get.

[Firm]

If I am an enthusiast looking for spend top dollar, say $15K, there's a long list of more exciting and driver oriented vehicles that you have access to at that price point.

Ditto for F-Bodies and old MGs at their price points 

But I hear people like those, too.

I agree with you actually.....everyone has their thing, but the fact that f-bodies typically run more than their Corvette counterparts (excluding special models and whatnot) goes to show that pricing in the hobby car market is emotionally driven, not merit based. Nice 80's f-bodies bringing $20-40K USD is insane to me. MGs....iunno, they're typically the cheapest 'classic' in their respective groups. MGBs are largely the cheapest vintage roadsters out there, and when you get into the 40's and 50's stuff the list of options gets pretty small, yet MGs will still be the cheapest of the lot.

Further to my point, if you want to use those examples, I've owned probably a dozen or more of each....My average acquisition cost is probably somewhere in the $2-3K range. I am an enthusiast, and I love those cars, but not a fool 

That said, there are a LOT more E90's around than F-bodies or MGs, so E90s are going to have a more established market price. The more unique your offering, the more power you have to demand a price.

[rrocket]

....My average acquisition cost is probably somewhere in the $2-3K range.

And I could find cars within that price range that are more "exciting" and/or "driver oriented" than an F-Body.

The point being...it's worth what someone will pay for it...and there's no doubt a BMW Stan would pay $12k+ for this.

[Firm]

....My average acquisition cost is probably somewhere in the $2-3K range.

And I could find cars within that price range that are more "exciting" and/or "driver oriented" than an F-Body.

The point being...it's worth what someone will pay for it...and there's no doubt a BMW Stan would pay $12k+ for this.

Getting waaay off topic here....but for shits, find me something sub $3K, in servicable condition (complete & not totally rotten or hacked up) that's better to drive than an old F-body.....in fact, if you can find anything RWD and 'sporty' for that price I'll give you the point.

[ktm525]

....My average acquisition cost is probably somewhere in the $2-3K range.

And I could find cars within that price range that are more "exciting" and/or "driver oriented" than an F-Body.

The point being...it's worth what someone will pay for it...and there's no doubt a BMW Stan would pay $12k+ for this.

Getting waaay off topic here....but for shits, find me something sub $3K, in servicable condition (complete & not totally rotten or hacked up) that's better to drive than an old F-body.....in fact, if you can find anything RWD and 'sporty' for that price I'll give you the point.

Here is a FWD Concorde for $1000 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/chrysler-concorde/1683407193

A BMW. It runs but beat to hell and may not have heat. 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2006-bmw-323i-rwd-6-speed/1682831556


Wait and the best for last. A Dent special. If get for $1500 that leaves $1500 to sort the head issue.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/cadillac-fleetwood/1682430032

[2JDM]

I listed mine for $16.5k initially, had 1 younger guy in his 20s seriously come see and test it at that price. I had 2 people come see it at $14.5k. The last guy, an man in his 40s-50s, bought it at $13k as is. He had a minty 06' 330i auto and wanted a manual coupe version as his summer toy, while his wife drove a current gen Rav4.

If Sailor lists his at a high enough price, it will weed out any flat brim hat high schooler buyer and may attract someone that appreciates and wants a minty analog BMW. Of course, you will get the low ballers "Yo man can you take $8k?" guys, but you'll learn to ignore them.

[ktm525]

I listed mine for $16.5k initially, had 1 younger guy in his 20s seriously come see and test it at that price. I had 2 people come see it at $14.5k. The last guy, an man in his 40s-50s, bought it at $13k as is. He had a minty 06' 330i auto and wanted a manual coupe version as his summer toy, while his wife drove a current gen Rav4.

If Sailor lists his at a high enough price, it will weed out any flat brim hat high schooler buyer and may attract someone that appreciates and wants a minty analog BMW. Of course, you will get the low ballers "Yo man can you take $8k?" guys, but you'll learn to ignore them.

What about grown 35 YO flat brim hat wearers? 

[rrocket]

fact, if you can find anything RWD and 'sporty' for that price I'll give you the point.

I see you're moving the goal posts by adding "RWD" only. But I'll play.

To be fair, $3k in 2023/24 isn't the same as when you were buying your F-bodies. When was the last time you spent $3k on an F-body?

Can you buy a serviceable F-body for $3k these days?

At any rate, a Miata fits the bill. Sporty, RWD, stick. See them for about $3k frequently.

What do I win?

[Firm]

fact, if you can find anything RWD and 'sporty' for that price I'll give you the point.

To be fair, $3k in 2023/24 isn't the same as when you were buying your F-bodies.

Can you buy a serviceable F-body for $3k these days?

At any rate, a Miata fits the bill. Sporty, RWD, stick. See them for about $3k frequently.

What do I win?

Find me a $3K serviceable Miata and I'll buy it right now.

You can probably still grab a V6 4th gen, the earlier 3.4L, for $3K in workable condition.

It's true I haven't bought an F-body in awhile; but during the pandemic I bought a C4 Corvette, an SLK & an MGB, each of them were well under $3K, and two of the 3 I drove home. Just gotta know how to shop - and not be picky.

[rrocket]

fact, if you can find anything RWD and 'sporty' for that price I'll give you the point.

To be fair, $3k in 2023/24 isn't the same as when you were buying your F-bodies.

Can you buy a serviceable F-body for $3k these days?

At any rate, a Miata fits the bill. Sporty, RWD, stick. See them for about $3k frequently.

What do I win?

Find me a $3K serviceable Miata and I'll buy it right now.

 

Without much effort, I found one for $3,800 just now.

That's not $3k...but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means there's none for sale currently. I see them frequently.  Ditto with $3k Mustangs and IS300s.

Add in FWD and I can easily find more cars that are "sporty", "exciting", or "driver oriented".

So if I subsidize the $800, will you buy that $3,800 Miata right now? LOL [emoji38]

I'd suggest you retract the statement about buying one..because you know I'll find one...somewhere...before the night is up!! LOL [emoji38]

[Firm]

Link it, let's see this $3800 Miata.

FWD is none of those things...

[rrocket]

Link it, let's see this $3800 Miata.

FWD is none of those things...

I disagree.

Plenty of sporty FWD cars far more engaging to me than an 80s F-body.  Not to mention several of them would run circles around an F-body at an Auto-X or race track.

I've played this internet game before. I'll link, and then you'll change the definition of "serviceable" just so you don't have to say I'm right. Like you did with the "RWD" only thing.

But for those of us who are always cruising the classifieds, we know the F-Body isn't the only "fun" $3k car available.

[Firm]

Link it, let's see this $3800 Miata.

FWD is none of those things...

I disagree.

Plenty of sporty FWD cars far more engaging to me than an 80s F-body.  Not to mention several of them would run circles around an F-body at an Auto-X or race track.

I've played this internet game before. I'll link, and then you'll change the definition of "serviceable" just so you don't have to say I'm right. Like you did with the "RWD" only thing.

But for those of us who are always cruising the classifieds, we know the F-Body isn't the only "fun" $3k car available.

lol, you're taking this much too seriously. "F-body" comes in a pretty wide range of performance....My 84 2.8L Camaro, I bet my son's powerwheels could give it a run on a track  On the other hand A late 4th gen with the LS1 is quick even by today's standards, and a bunch of in between options depending on what you can find in budget.

Re-read the last few messages, I never said anything about a lack of fun cars under $3K, in fact i gave 3 examples I'd purchased (none of them f-bodies) recently for less than that...You brought this discussion upon yourself.

The original point I was making was that the $15K being tossed around for a nice E90 opened up a LOT of really exciting enthusiast car options.