Topic: Electric Vehicle News Thread

[ChaosphereIX]

not for much longer if anyone has any sense - renewable energy sources are the way to go!

the fact that coal is very dirty is not a problem of the EVs, but a problem of the energy industry

[rrocket]

not for much longer if anyone has any sense - renewable energy sources are the way to go!

the fact that coal is very dirty is not a problem of the EVs, but a problem of the energy industry

I just watched a Vice News story about coal towns and the thousands upon thousands who rely on these. If these go away, these people are screwed. And renewables will do nothing for them.

If they intend to ban coal, something needs to be done to help these people.

[johngenx]

If they intend to ban coal, something needs to be done to help these people.

Those jobs have been doomed for a long time - it's been a gradual process, but they're going away.  We need to invest in retraining and relocation of those people into other sectors, perhaps renewable energy sectors.  As the move away from coal benefits all of society (the entire planet, actually), I would have no issue with taxpayer dollars supporting that transition.

The reality is that a lot of nations are now going full-steam ahead away from fossil fuels and even nations rich with oil and coal need to invest heavily in alternative energy sources.  Not only because we need to mitigate climate change, but because it's the new economic reality.

[rrocket]

If they intend to ban coal, something needs to be done to help these people.

Those jobs have been doomed for a long time - it's been a gradual process, but they're going away.  We need to invest in retraining and relocation of those people into other sectors, perhaps renewable energy sectors.  As the move away from coal benefits all of society (the entire planet, actually), I would have no issue with taxpayer dollars supporting that transition.

The reality is that a lot of nations are now going full-steam ahead away from fossil fuels and even nations rich with oil and coal need to invest heavily in alternative energy sources.  Not only because we need to mitigate climate change, but because it's the new economic reality.

Yes, but I think transitioning these people into renewables is pie in the sky. These people live in the middle of nowhere...these isn't going to be a wind farm nor a factory built in these areas.

I know about the expectations of renewables based on what goes on here. Windsor is far, far more prepared for renewable manufacturing than most places in Ontario, if not Canada (tons of skilled workers here due to automotive and die/mold). We had 2 companies set up shop here. One promised 250 jobs..it delivered 20, then closed 2 years later. The windmills near my house promised "dozens" of jobs and delivered 3-4. The windmill factory in Tillsonberg closed too...340 jobs. Because of this, the remaining factory in Windsor is going to be laying off.

I agree that wind power is preferable. But there's just no practical way to think coal employees will find jobs. Small mines employ 500 people each...the bigger ones in the thousands. Based on the reality, I just don't see renewables being the savior I wished they were.

[johngenx]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/25/climate/todays-energy-jobs-are-in-solar-not-coal.html?mcubz=1

Huh.

[84im]

The writing is on the wall for people in the coal industry.  They will have to look for other employment and that will probably mean retraining in some other field.
Instead of trying to save the coal industry the US should invest in retraining these coal workers.  Many will have to move to find employment, but that is just the way it is. 

[tenpenny]

The writing is on the wall for people in the coal industry.  They will have to look for other employment and that will probably mean retraining in some other field.
Instead of trying to save the coal industry the US should invest in retraining these coal workers.  Many will have to move to find employment, but that is just the way it is.

Because steel is dead?


Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

[johngenx]

I've worked in the coal industry - one of our generating plants is a large coal fired unit that sits atop a massive coal seam.  Now, this was 20 years ago, but those jobs were not "pick and shovel" jobs - a very high percentage of them required a comprehensive set of skills, from operating large machinery to complex software management systems.  I would say that most everyone that works in the Alberta coal industry would easily transfer these skills, with re-training, to other industries.  Many of the people in the plants were either electrical engineers or certified electricians.  The mine and the plant were both staffed with bright, skilled people.

[ChaosphereIX]

I've worked in the coal industry - one of our generating plants is a large coal fired unit that sits atop a massive coal seam.  Now, this was 20 years ago, but those jobs were not "pick and shovel" jobs - a very high percentage of them required a comprehensive set of skills, from operating large machinery to complex software management systems.  I would say that most everyone that works in the Alberta coal industry would easily transfer these skills, with re-training, to other industries.  Many of the people in the plants were either electrical engineers or certified electricians.  The mine and the plant were both staffed with bright, skilled people.

exactly, many miners these days are not headlamp shovel and pick swinging workers, but bright electrical and mechanical experts

I think some are just making it out to be harder than it would be to retrain them just to keep coal alive..when they could perhaps easily be an electrical engineer for a solar farm, or a battery storage tech, etc.

[rrocket]

I've worked in the coal industry - one of our generating plants is a large coal fired unit that sits atop a massive coal seam.  Now, this was 20 years ago, but those jobs were not "pick and shovel" jobs - a very high percentage of them required a comprehensive set of skills, from operating large machinery to complex software management systems.  I would say that most everyone that works in the Alberta coal industry would easily transfer these skills, with re-training, to other industries.  Many of the people in the plants were either electrical engineers or certified electricians.  The mine and the plant were both staffed with bright, skilled people.

exactly, many miners these days are not headlamp shovel and pick swinging workers, but bright electrical and mechanical experts

I think some are just making it out to be harder than it would be to retrain them just to keep coal alive..when they could perhaps easily be an electrical engineer for a solar farm, or a battery storage tech, etc.

You can re train them easily. They are skilled.

There just won't be enough jobs to go around IMO. Not even close...unless you plan to relocate these people, their families, etc all around the country. Which isn't practical either. Even the largest Windsor wind component plant, CS Wind, had only 450 jobs. Or about the amount of people from ONE small coal mine. It now has 120...and those might by done now that the Siemans plant is closing. And due to the enormous amount of skilled trades here, we've been trying unsuccessfully to land solar factories. Nothing to date.

The numbers just don't add up unfortunately. And, I find it unlikely that any high tech renewable company is going to build plants in Hicksville coal areas.

I have no idea what the solution is....But coal is dead and I feel for these people and their communities.

[EV Dan]

Lithium is the new coal... Just saying, not trying to be funny here.

[ChaosphereIX]

Lithium is the new coal... Just saying, not trying to be funny here.

exactly - if you can dig up coal, you can dig up all the metals etc. needed for batteries - and yes, it is a dirty industry too

families just need to move, retraining should be straightforward [I assume], and the miners could go back to work in an industry that is NOT 100 years obsolete

[rrocket]

families just need to move

Yea, that's what I thought would make sense until I watched the Vice special. They touched on this.

These people can't move..no money. They can't sell their house..because no one is buying/moving in to those areas, as coal is the only industry.

So you walk away from your house and move with no money? It's just not a solution. It seems so easy to move..but once the special laid it out...It's an impossibility for most.

[ChaosphereIX]

lump of cash could help, investment in green energy which includes a massive fund to re-train these miners and get rid of coal for good

perhaps they could stop wasting money on other useless avenues where it basically gets burned with no benefit

[ChaosphereIX]

lol what does Dyson know about making a car - look at how much trouble Tesla goes through for theirs, and they are really investing in it and the major player

bid to grab a headline before a quarter board meeting I am sure, nothing more...

yes a Timmies one would be hilarious, rolling up your chrome rims to win? AWD will be called Double Double? Interior colours called Timbit glaze, etc.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Dyson investing massively to make an electric car.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/dyson-planning-electric-car-by-2020/

I think Tim Hortons should Have a go

https://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=99684.0

[BWII]

All those coal workers could be sent to Puerto Rico to help rebuild, apparently they're in a heap of steaming doodoo at the moment...surely a few good skilled electrical engineers could be used there. Among people good with a shovel and a hammer. 

[ChaosphereIX]

good thinking, retrain them to be part of disaster relief teams for FEMA...from one dead industry to another that will be booming, swelling, rising...OK done with the puns...in the near future - partially thanks to the continued support of their dirty industry. Would be an ironic turn of events.

they worked for the problem, now they can work for the people that have to clean up the mess

[johngenx]

People have roots, yes, and it's tough for people to "just move."  But, time marches on and the buggy whip industries ain't gonna make it.  That said, yes, economically we can't expect people to move - those mining towns have worthless houses, etc.  So, we spend money helping people.  I have no issues with my taxes supporting people in making those transitions.  It helps the country in the long run, benefiting us all.

No industry is going to be harm free.  We're going to mine things, make things, and on and on.  But, we can minimize impact.  Coal is not the minimizing alternative, not even close.

[rrocket]

Classy move:  http://fortune.com/2017/09/28/tesla-battery-puerto-rico-power/