Author Topic: VW "No longer Competitive"  (Read 8989 times)

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2023, 09:52:05 am »
They should have at least kept the Golf Alltrack for North America. Just look at how popular the Subaru Crosstrek is.

Agree. Alltrack is more similar to an Outback, which sells just fine. We were looking at ones back when we got the RX but they all had that pano roof with the leakage problems

VW never did bring in a lifted Golf hatch Crosstrek equivalent, although they built a 'Crosstrek Wilderness' in Europe over 20 years before Subaru



https://newatlas.com/automotive/vw-golf-country-4x4/

Offline quadzilla

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2023, 09:56:31 am »
Don't forget about the EOS.

Offline OliverD

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2023, 12:35:25 pm »
They should have at least kept the Golf Alltrack for North America. Just look at how popular the Subaru Crosstrek is.

Agree. Alltrack is more similar to an Outback, which sells just fine. We were looking at ones back when we got the RX but they all had that pano roof with the leakage problems

VW never did bring in a lifted Golf hatch Crosstrek equivalent, although they built a 'Crosstrek Wilderness' in Europe over 20 years before Subaru



https://newatlas.com/automotive/vw-golf-country-4x4/

You're forgetting about the 1997 Outback Sport, although to be fair it didn't have a suspension lift, just taller tires.

Offline OliverD

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2023, 12:36:50 pm »
Peak VW happen here in 2007.  You had the Phaeton, Passat sedan and wagon, Beatle coupe and convertible, GTI, Golf R32, Touareg with that V10 TDI, and the Jetta TDI.  I can't think of a better lineup.  Mind you if you were looking at total sales in north America, that likely happened a few years ago with a bunch of vehicles that will mostly be forgotten and rarely ever talked about. 

All those vehicles from 2007 felt different than the American and Asian products, they all had a unique German feel and look.

By 2007 the Phaeton was already discontinued in North America.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2023, 12:43:53 pm »
The last time I looked at VW with more than the disgust I reserve for modern Mitsubishi was back when they had a VR6 in a Golf and a Corrado......
Lighten up Francis.....

Offline marcus_go

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2023, 01:10:40 pm »
They should have at least kept the Golf Alltrack for North America. Just look at how popular the Subaru Crosstrek is.

Agree. Alltrack is more similar to an Outback, which sells just fine. We were looking at ones back when we got the RX but they all had that pano roof with the leakage problems

VW never did bring in a lifted Golf hatch Crosstrek equivalent, although they built a 'Crosstrek Wilderness' in Europe over 20 years before Subaru



https://newatlas.com/automotive/vw-golf-country-4x4/

Yeah, I mean they could have have even just offered a raised regular Golf in Alltrack form to compete with the Crosstrek.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2023, 01:34:17 pm »
To some extent I think the problem with VW is too much money. They can afford to trash perfectly good existing vehicles and bound off in new directions like GM, plus pump big money into vanity projects that go nowhere like Ford

The only thing Subaru can afford is to continuously hone the few vehicles they have

Offline dkaz

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2023, 02:52:14 pm »
GLI is up there with SI for me as a potential next car.

Offline marcus_go

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2023, 03:43:02 pm »
To some extent I think the problem with VW is too much money. They can afford to trash perfectly good existing vehicles and bound off in new directions like GM, plus pump big money into vanity projects that go nowhere like Ford

The only thing Subaru can afford is to continuously hone the few vehicles they have

That makes a lot of sense when you look at their recent products.

Offline ktm525

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2023, 05:15:58 pm »
Essentially it has done nothing for 13 years. About the time their products went from unreliable to unreliable and uninspiring.




Offline ktm525

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2023, 05:19:00 pm »
Meanwhile Toyota has had a 300% return since 2010. VW is a shitty company.  :rofl2:


Offline DriverJeff

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2023, 10:23:07 am »
VW certainly isn't without its issues these days -- but few companies are.

While not on the same level as the likes of the Touareg and Phaeton years, I have found from driving pretty well everything in the current and last-gen line-up that they do indeed feel different than other machines with which they compete. The interior finishes have diminished, yes, but the overall presentation from outside to inside styling is (as it has always been) far more timeless than, say, the Korean brands which pull a 180-degree flip for style with every new model, chasing whatever fleeting fashion trend is out there.  (They, too, have gone all-in on electrics, btw). Nissans, by and large, are utterly forgettable. Mazda continues to make good products that are well-sorted to drive, but not the peak of efficiency or tech. Honda is pricing itself into the stratosphere, while, admittedly, Toyota is currently on a fantastic roll of well-timed, well-built products.

Despite some firmly living in past fantasies about earlier generations, the current Jetta as an example of what VW is doing right. Is it as small and nimble as earlier cars?  No, but it's now a very good value, well-equipped, uses sensible ergonomics and is incredibly efficient.  And for an econo car, it's zippy to drive and manages itself well. Plus, both cabin and trunk space are amazing for a 'compact'. If not planning to drive the thing for 10+ years, I'd happily take a Jetta over the Corolla, or a GLI over a mid-trim Civic (which is where things price out).

The Atlas wasn't as lavishly finished as the Touareg but represented more of what people buying the damned things actually want.  More space, square-jawed styling and better pricing. The folks I know that own them love them. The times I've driven them, I've really liked them too. Whine all you want that it's not a Touareg, but NONE of us bought one anyway.
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Offline OliverD

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2023, 10:41:50 am »
I think that's a fair assessment.

I do wish VW still sold the Touareg. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a niche premium SUV even if it sells in small numbers – Toyota did it for decades with the Land Cruiser.

VW has these strange cycles of mainstream success and failure in North America. I know that traditionally VW has not taken the North American market as seriously as they should have and that has hurt them. Look at their history in the past few decades:

1998-2000: B5 Passat and A4 Jetta/Golf/GTI come out. They set new standards for refinement and amenities at very reasonable price points. Sales soar, but the products have reliability issues that turn many off of the brand.

2010-2011: After somewhat lacklustre interim generations, the "Americanized" Jetta and Passat come out. Sales soar again, this time higher than ever before. No question the products are a big success, but then sales drop and VW doesn't make any meaningful changes to the cars for years.

2018: Atlas and new Tiguan debut, again very much tailored to the North American market. We only get the "big" Tiguan. Again, both are sales successes, but again, sales eventually drop and meaningful product changes are few. The regular Golf is dropped from the lineup even though it sells quite well in Canada. The Jetta is good but as with most sedans sales are dropping to a fraction of what they used to be.

Obviously diesel gate didn't help matters but you would think that there could be a bit more consistency in the core product lineup. The GTI and R have always been good if not great products but the same can't really be said for the rest of the lineup.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2023, 12:37:24 pm »
VW has these strange cycles of mainstream success and failure in North America. I know that traditionally VW has not taken the North American market as seriously as they should have and that has hurt them

Yeah, they seem to be way more switched on in Europe

To be fair, the 'come up with a great idea and then neglect it until it fails' way of thinking has been a common story with GM, Ford and Chrysler too

Maybe they hire the same execs

It's a change from the traditional European 'we'll sell you what we make for Europe and f*ck you if you don't like it' attitude, but maybe not the perfect business model either

Offline rrocket

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2023, 01:02:26 pm »
, but the overall presentation from outside to inside styling is far more timeless than, say, the Korean brands




Funny how when we're talking VW style, particularly exterior, the euphemism for "boring" is "timeless".

And yet when the Japanese and Koreans had some "boring" designs they were called out for being...."boring".

I continue to think VW has some of the most uninspiring exterior designs on the market. In other words...boring.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline DriverJeff

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2023, 11:50:25 pm »
, but the overall presentation from outside to inside styling is far more timeless than, say, the Korean brands




Funny how when we're talking VW style, particularly exterior, the euphemism for "boring" is "timeless".

And yet when the Japanese and Koreans had some "boring" designs they were called out for being...."boring".

I continue to think VW has some of the most uninspiring exterior designs on the market. In other words...boring.

One man's 'tasteful' is another man's 'boring' I suppose.  (I've seen your taste in clothes too,  ;D )

Offline Bubba

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2023, 08:47:38 am »
, but the overall presentation from outside to inside styling is far more timeless than, say, the Korean brands




Funny how when we're talking VW style, particularly exterior, the euphemism for "boring" is "timeless".

And yet when the Japanese and Koreans had some "boring" designs they were called out for being...."boring".

I continue to think VW has some of the most uninspiring exterior designs on the market. In other words...boring.

One man's 'tasteful' is another man's 'boring' I suppose.  (I've seen your taste in clothes too,  ;D )

That's precisely why I like the Jetta: it's 'boring'.  Boring is this case meaning tasteful, not gimmicky, design.
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Offline warp

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2023, 10:52:39 am »
Despite some firmly living in past fantasies about earlier generations, the current Jetta as an example of what VW is doing right. Is it as small and nimble as earlier cars?  No, but it's now a very good value, well-equipped, uses sensible ergonomics and is incredibly efficient.  And for an econo car, it's zippy to drive and manages itself well. Plus, both cabin and trunk space are amazing for a 'compact'. If not planning to drive the thing for 10+ years, I'd happily take a Jetta over the Corolla, or a GLI over a mid-trim Civic (which is where things price out).
Perfectly said. That's why we are replacing the leased 2020 Jetta in the next month or so with a higher trim 2024 Jetta, it's great value, nimble and very fuel efficient.

Offline ktm525

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2023, 12:38:56 pm »
Trunks are big due to the twist beam.


Offline Layne

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Re: VW "No longer Competitive"
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2023, 03:00:58 pm »
GLI is up there with SI for me as a potential next car.

A buddy has a 2022 GLI.  It is really nice for the coin and has really good performance for the street.  The front LSD makes a world of diff....erence.

Why not the GTI over the GLI, or is it just a preference for a sedan?