Topic: VW "No longer Competitive"

[rrocket]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/business/volkswagen-brand-no-longer-competitive/index.html

[PJungnitsch]

Hopefully they figured out that taking more money out of interiors and reliability isn't a win

[JohnnyMac]

Hopefully they figured out that taking more money out of interiors and reliability isn't a win

They need to go back to their roots with products that look and feel German.  Right now their crap is so Americanized that it feels more like a Chevy than anything that would come out of Germany.

But I have little faith in them figuring this out.

[WP v3.32]

as an Ex VW TDI Fanboy, I have no interests in their products  unfortunately.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

as an Ex VW TDI Fanboy, I have no interests in their products  unfortunately.

Mk IV VW Jetta TDI FTW.  That was peak VW, IMO.

[EV Dan]

They are beating around the bush. Remember how they used to undercut the Detroit 3? The US responded with dieselgate, but that was only the beginning. What's now bringing down VW along with many German based manufacturers is the cost of natural gas. Skipping the politics here, that "special" is no more, for the foreseeable future.

[rrocket]

They are beating around the bush. Remember how they used to undercut the Detroit 3? The US responded with dieselgate, but that was only the beginning. What's now bringing down VW along with many German based manufacturers is the cost of natural gas.

Actually, the issue that's rendering many car  companies uncompetitive, US ones included, is going too rapidly or "all in" with EVs. They've said as much publicly (sometimes veiled, sometimes not) which is truly shocking.

 They lose tons of money on every EV sold. And their lower margin , high volume vehicles (Golf, etc) can't make up the difference. Which means the higher ticket vehicles (with larger margins) are the ones looked at to make up the difference. But many people can't afford those.

It becomes a vicious uncompetitive circle.

Sadly, some US and European makers are finding out the hard way.

[HeliDriver]

Hopefully they figured out that taking more money out of interiors and reliability isn't a win

They need to go back to their roots with products that look and feel German.  Right now their crap is so Americanized that it feels more like a Chevy than anything that would come out of Germany.

But I have little faith in them figuring this out.

Hey, don't knock Chevy. 

A few years ago I had three rentals more or less back-to-back: Chevy Malibu, Hyundai Elantra and VW Jetta. The Malibu was the nicest to drive and had more of a Germanic feel than the Jetta.

Epsilon platform, designed by Opel in Germany, so maybe it shouldn't have been surprising.

[rrocket]

Hopefully they figured out that taking more money out of interiors and reliability isn't a win

They need to go back to their roots with products that look and feel German.  Right now their crap is so Americanized that it feels more like a Chevy than anything that would come out of Germany.

But I have little faith in them figuring this out.

Hey, don't knock Chevy. 

A few years ago I had three rentals more or less back-to-back: Chevy Malibu, Hyundai Elantra and VW Jetta. The Malibu was the nicest to drive and had more of a Germanic feel than the Jetta.

Epsilon platform, designed by Opel in Germany, so maybe it shouldn't have been surprising.

Yea, I've not heard or read gripes about how the Malibu drives, really.

[ktm525]

They are beating around the bush. Remember how they used to undercut the Detroit 3? The US responded with dieselgate, but that was only the beginning. What's now bringing down VW along with many German based manufacturers is the cost of natural gas. Skipping the politics here, that "special" is no more, for the foreseeable future.

Germany deserves everything that is coming to them. Pandered to the green zealots to stay in power and now they be fooked.  Could have kept the nuclear but no...  I would say peak VW in North America was around late 90s?  The GTI was OK, the Passat was fresh but the rest of it? Semi reliable stuff that was more sizzle than substance? That being said most of the offerings were often topped by other manufacturers.

[marcus_go]

as an Ex VW TDI Fanboy, I have no interests in their products  unfortunately.

Mk IV VW Jetta TDI FTW.  That was peak VW, IMO.

The Mk IV was my favourite Jetta. My mom had a Mk IV Jetta TDI that she bought new and drove for almost 21 years. It was a simple and reliable car that just worked. It had just over 200,000 kms when she sold it but still lots of life left in it. Mid to late 2000s was peak VW IMO. Had lots of choices from a stripped down Golf to a fully loaded V10 Touareg.

I would say when VW dropped the Golf and all the wagon variants and went all in on a CUV/SUV strategy is when it really became apparent that they were only after mainstream buyers. They should have at least kept the Golf Alltrack for North America. Just look at how popular the Subaru Crosstrek is.

The only VW I would consider today is a GTI or a Golf R. Now that VW is getting rid of the option for a manual transmission in both of those models after 2024, I see no reason to step foot into a VW dealer.

[ktm525]

I think the gig was up when the Passat B6 and Jetta were made in the US and had a stand alone US version. The Touareg was similarly dumbed down and VW went to the bottom.

[OliverD]

I think the gig was up when the Passat B6 and Jetta were made in the US and had a stand alone US version. The Touareg was similarly dumbed down and VW went to the bottom.

You mean the NMS. The B6 was built in Germany. But Passat sales went up 10x in the U.S. between 2010 and 2012.

[ktm525]

I think the gig was up when the Passat B6 and Jetta were made in the US and had a stand alone US version. The Touareg was similarly dumbed down and VW went to the bottom.

You mean the NMS. The B6 was built in Germany. But Passat sales went up 10x in the U.S. between 2010 and 2012.

Whatever replaced the B5.5 in North America. Did they sell 20 in 2010 ?    You sure don't see them on the streets unlike Camrys, Accords etc

[marcus_go]

I think the gig was up when the Passat B6 and Jetta were made in the US and had a stand alone US version. The Touareg was similarly dumbed down and VW went to the bottom.

You mean the NMS. The B6 was built in Germany. But Passat sales went up 10x in the U.S. between 2010 and 2012.

Whatever replaced the B5.5 in North America. Did they sell 20 in 2010 ?    You sure don't see them on the streets unlike Camrys, Accords etc

The B6 was the last global Passat we got and was still manufactured in Germany. It was definitely more premium than the NMS which was made at the new Tennessee plant for the North American market.

[rrocket]

. They should have at least kept the Golf Alltrack for North America. Just look at how popular the Subaru Crosstrek is.

American buyers generally don't like wagons. The Alltrack is a wagon.

Americans like CUV/SUV. That's what the Crosstrek is and one of the reasons it sells well.

[OliverD]

I think the gig was up when the Passat B6 and Jetta were made in the US and had a stand alone US version. The Touareg was similarly dumbed down and VW went to the bottom.

You mean the NMS. The B6 was built in Germany. But Passat sales went up 10x in the U.S. between 2010 and 2012.

Whatever replaced the B5.5 in North America. Did they sell 20 in 2010 ?    You sure don't see them on the streets unlike Camrys, Accords etc

First couple years of production VW was selling around 120,000 NMS Passats in the U.S. No question it had mass market appeal, but it didn't stay competitive. Same thing with the Atlas – it sold in fairly big numbers when it was new. And same thing with the 2011 Jetta actually – for the first few years of the sixth gen model (which was cheaper and decontented compared to the MkV) sales jump up to 160-185k per year in the U.S.

That era of "Americanized" Volkswagens were actually really successful, at least initially.

[Firm]

as an Ex VW TDI Fanboy, I have no interests in their products  unfortunately.

Mk IV VW Jetta TDI FTW.  That was peak VW, IMO.

Agreed, Mk IV was the peak. Was accessible, felt unique and more premium than a comparable Japanese car of the time, TDI was great, but you had the 1.8T as well which was fun, and the basic 2.0L. You could have a really cheap base model with crank windows, or loaded up version with leather and a sunroof which was really nice. Plus, they lasted forever.

[OliverD]

as an Ex VW TDI Fanboy, I have no interests in their products  unfortunately.

Mk IV VW Jetta TDI FTW.  That was peak VW, IMO.

Agreed, Mk IV was the peak. Was accessible, felt unique and more premium than a comparable Japanese car of the time, TDI was great, but you had the 1.8T as well which was fun, and the basic 2.0L. You could have a really cheap base model with crank windows, or loaded up version with leather and a sunroof which was really nice. Plus, they lasted forever.

And the VR6 was an option too.

Weirdly, for a year or two the MkIV Jetta could be had with the 2.0, TDI, 1.8T, and VR6 engines – all in the same trim level with identical equipment.

The downfall of the MkIV was the crappy reliability.

[JohnnyMac]

Peak VW happen here in 2007.  You had the Phaeton, Passat sedan and wagon, Beatle coupe and convertible, GTI, Golf R32, Touareg with that V10 TDI, and the Jetta TDI.  I can't think of a better lineup.  Mind you if you were looking at total sales in north America, that likely happened a few years ago with a bunch of vehicles that will mostly be forgotten and rarely ever talked about. 

All those vehicles from 2007 felt different than the American and Asian products, they all had a unique German feel and look.