Topic: 10 years there will be probably no production in Canada

[mmret]

It's such a sh*t show.

^^^
THIS
and it's why we can't (hopefully don't) have an early election.   Ontario has enough debt, the cost of an election just isn't worth it.

The Liberals have a plan to spend us out this economic mess, while the Conservatives want to cut taxes and Government services.   Something has to be done to try and re-start the economy in Ontario, it's clear the private sector isn't doing anything.  Now the Government needs to set up and try to create jobs.

Both plans are questionable.   Infrastructure spending certainly will create jobs but will it pay itself in the long run?   Meanwhile the Feds have tried lowering corporate taxes and stats show that really hasn't had the job creation impact as they hoped, and now that's Hudak's solution.   Cutting spending may reduce the Government's cost but that certainly doesn't help the job situation.

At this point both plans have risks and the extra cost of an election is the last thing we really need.

Canada's in a dark place....lack of coordination doesn't help either. Maybe a good crisis will let us Federalize everything.

[caretaker007]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

[PJ]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

Why don't you start a business and create some jobs?

[mmret]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

Money is a product of the Crown.

If corporations sit on it, the Crown has the prerogative to enact retained earnings taxes or high capital gains taxes to get it flowing again.

Or they could just nationalize them outright.  

[mmret]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

Money is a product of the Crown.

If corporations sit on it, the Crown has the prerogative to enact retained earnings taxes or high capital gains taxes to get it flowing again.

Or they could just nationalize them outright.

Confiscation has happened a few times before

EDIT: actually now having given it more than 5 seconds of thought, in the extreme lets say the government enacted a law that would apply a 95% tax on any retained money at the end of some period. Result? Need to spend cash as quick as humanly possible. Result? Mass inflation and currency devaluation. People turn to gold or salt or whatever cannot be (so easily) confiscated. Inflation / money printing / confiscation / devaluation are all various shades of the same die.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

Money is a product of the Crown.

If corporations sit on it, the Crown has the prerogative to enact retained earnings taxes or high capital gains taxes to get it flowing again.

Or they could just nationalize them outright.

Confiscation has happened a few times before

EDIT: actually now having given it more than 5 seconds of thought, in the extreme lets say the government enacted a law that would apply a 95% tax on any retained money at the end of some period. Result? Need to spend cash as quick as humanly possible. Result? Mass inflation and currency devaluation. People turn to gold or salt or whatever cannot be (so easily) confiscated. Inflation / money printing / confiscation / devaluation are all various shades of the same die.

Oooh, the communism boogeyman!

Of course most social democratic states have crown corporations of one kind or another. My electricity and natural gas are provided by two, for example.

Gradual implementation of targeted taxes has no effect on inflation.

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[PJ]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

Money is a product of the Crown.

If corporations sit on it, the Crown has the prerogative to enact retained earnings taxes or high capital gains taxes to get it flowing again.

Or they could just nationalize them outright.

Great way to get get companies to move to other countries.... And take their jobs with them. 

[mmret]

Oooh, the communism boogeyman!

Oh come on, relax! I'm kidding with you Your comment was so ludicrous I had to assume you were not serious so I replied in kind. What are these things for anyways


Gradual implementation of targeted taxes has no effect on inflation.

Unlikely. I could explain why but don't care enough and also too busy counting my money and running down cyclists.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Maybe if BIG BUSINESS  got off their balloning bank accounts and started creating real jobs (not Part Time sh*t) the country MIGHT start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

What, is their money actually your money or something? What have I missed?

Money is a product of the Crown.

If corporations sit on it, the Crown has the prerogative to enact retained earnings taxes or high capital gains taxes to get it flowing again.

Or they could just nationalize them outright.

Great way to get get companies to move to other countries.... And take their jobs with them.

They're doing that anyway as far as manufacturing and other industries. Pretty tough to more resource industries.

We should have our own Statoil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

[johngenx]

I laugh when oil companies scream about leaving Alberta.  For where?  If there was lots of oil somewhere else, they'd be gone in a second.

[mmret]

We should have our own Statoil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

We should. But only if governance is good:
1. we're not selling subsidized oil to Canadians, the NOC is there to maximize long run profits
2. the earnings from this business are to be used to diversify Canadian industry for the eventual day when the oil is either no longer there or (more likely) not so much in demand any more, again for long run economic benefit
3. the earnings cannot be siphoned off by idiot politicians for any pet project / electorate pandering they deem suitable at the moment
4. hire and incentivize skilled, professional management to carry out the above, and then hands off from the state.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

We should have our own Statoil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

We should. But only if governance is good:
1. we're not selling subsidized oil to Canadians, the NOC is there to maximize long run profits
2. the earnings from this business are to be used to diversify Canadian industry for the eventual day when the oil is either no longer there or (more likely) not so much in demand any more, again for long run economic benefit
3. the earnings cannot be siphoned off by idiot politicians for any pet project / electorate pandering they deem suitable at the moment
4. hire and incentivize skilled, professional management to carry out the above, and then hands off from the state.

Works for me.

[mmret]

No it wouldn't. You wouldn't be able to take the money for blanket social welfare and you'd have to pay high wages to management and senior technical staff without taxing it at 90% above 500k.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

No it wouldn't. You wouldn't be able to take the money for blanket social welfare and you'd have to pay high wages to management and senior technical staff without taxing it at 90% above 500k.

Crowns pay dividends to the government, that's always been the case.

The top marginal rate should be reinstated at the same level and rate it used to be, roughly $3M and 80%. This is nothing new or unusual, and was SOP prior to Reagan.

Executive pay is hugely over-inflated. There is always someone else willing to do it cheaper, and only so many executive positions to fill.

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[blotter]

No it wouldn't. You wouldn't be able to take the money for blanket social welfare and you'd have to pay high wages to management and senior technical staff without taxing it at 90% above 500k.

what do you consider blanket social welfare?
some call our free health care system free social welfare.   
what do you think Government Corporations like the LCBO and the OLG are for?
They do just about exactly that.

[mmret]

No it wouldn't. You wouldn't be able to take the money for blanket social welfare and you'd have to pay high wages to management and senior technical staff without taxing it at 90% above 500k.

what do you consider blanket social welfare?
some call our free health care system free social welfare.   
what do you think Government Corporations like the LCBO and the OLG are for?
They do just about exactly that.

That's the issue. I'd only support a Canadian Statoil if the funds were specifically tagged to developing and investing in industries which will diversify Canada's economic base in the long run.

The economy today basically runs on natural resources (at least the export part). So we would be converting that into something broader and more long-lasting.

Or we I guess we could spend the money on buying everyone a new Ferrari.

My issue isn't with social welfare as much as it is with ensuring that the money from this would be used wisely. I'm not saying that income taxes shouldn't go towards social welfare.

LCBO and OLG are interesting cases but not necessarily that relevant as they both operate in "social vices" space. Admittedly you can say money is fungible and there's no need for mental accounting but, for the same reason that people have budgets that define the split and sources of money, so should governments (because governments, like people, are prone to short term wants over long term wants, election pandering, waste, etc.)

[Ex-airbalancer]

I wonder if BMW even looked at Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bmw-pledges-1-billion-to-build-car-plant-in-mexico-1.2696440

[EV-Light]

Other countries should be held to the same labour, safety, and environmental standards that Canadian companies comply to before any products are imported.

I've been saying this for years...and if the company can't provide enough proof that all those standards are being followed, said company will be charge a 60% import fee! LOL