Author Topic: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?  (Read 4667 times)

AP

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Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« on: May 25, 2017, 10:16:35 am »
[deleted at request of poster]
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 07:02:30 pm by ALin »

Offline Noto

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 10:29:28 am »
Yeah, our firm was all over that one, and in some respects, I agree.  It's not that the applicant merely spilled her coffee; rather, she got her coffee at a drive-thru with the lid not properly affixed.  Her injuries (burns) arose directly out of the manner in which she obtained her coffee, which was via the well-accepted practice of using a drive-thru.

The SABS define an accident as:

Quote
Definitions and interpretation
3. (1) In this Regulation,

“accident” means an incident in which the use or operation of an automobile directly causes an impairment or directly causes damage to any prescription eyewear, denture, hearing aid, prosthesis or other medical or dental device;
...
“impairment” means a loss or abnormality of a psychological, physiological or anatomical structure or function;

Whether or not that changes your mind, I think the decision is a valid one much like the famed Casino Rama bus (a woman tripped while trying to get on the bus) or the drive-by shooting cases (since a vehicle is paramount to the definition of a "drive-by" shooting).

______________________________________________________________________

Here's a file I have (pending - so no fine details) for ya'll to consider:

A person is employed by some Canadian City to drive its disabled transportation buses.  Part of the job description is to escort passengers off the bus, but there is no requirement to escort them to their doors directly.

The employee driver stops the bus, helps a passenger off, walks that passenger to the building, presses the buzzer, helps the passenger inside the building, then exits the building, takes 4 steps before slipping and falling on ice about 30-feet away from the bus, which was turned off at the time and the keys in the driver's pocket.

...is that "use or operation" of an automobile, and did that "use or operation" directly cause the slip and fall?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 10:36:33 am by No-san »

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 10:59:40 am »
When the cup is hot, I'll often grab it briefly "by the lid." But I'm not really holding it just by the lid, I give it a bit of a squeeze and make sure my fingers are around the rim of the cup as well. Haven't had any issues so far...

Anyway, what was the point of all this? Presumably the woman's medical bills were covered under her health insurance, so what's the benefit of making an automobile claim?


Offline Noto

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 11:25:18 am »
I did not see where the judgment records that the coffee lid was improperly affixed.  The judgment records in paragraph 2 that the plaintiff held the coffee cup "by its lid".  Predictably, the lid slipped off and the coffee burned the plaintiff's legs.  I am surprised that the judge effectively ignored this seemingly relevant contextual factor.  Whether formally relevant or not, it is the kind of soft consideration that can be decisive.
To be honest, I haven't read the judgment - only my firm's summary (which could have been a little off).

Even still, the applicant was injured during the use and operation of an automobile.  Remember, the SABS are no fault benefits, so you can't say she screwed up and therefore shouldn't recover.  It's simply a question as to whether or not someone was injured as a result of the use or operation of an automobile.

How about another one my firm has:

An SUV rolls over (it had a panoramic glass roof) and lands upright.  A witness to the accident tried to open the doors to help the unconscious driver, but couldn't pull them open.  He climbs up and into the cabin via the shattered moonroof.  The driver wakes up and says that another passenger wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was ejected, so he jumped out of the SUV and cut his hand on some glass, and injured his leg in jumping out.

...should he be entitled to accident benefits?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 11:58:44 am by No-san »

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 11:28:00 am »
This is a simple case, just kill all the lawyers   ;D



Offline Noto

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 11:29:21 am »
Anyway, what was the point of all this? Presumably the woman's medical bills were covered under her health insurance, so what's the benefit of making an automobile claim?
In Ontario, some medical bills are funded by OHIP, others, such as rehabilitation costs and prescription costs are not.  Then there's the claim for psych injuries, etc...

Offline tortoise

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 11:51:55 am »
Only the slow and dim know where they're going in life, and seldom is it worth the trip. - Tom Robbins.

Offline Noto

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 12:04:22 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMHsojpGV5o
can't help myself.
Came here to post that exact link.
Ha - I've never seen that, but sooooooo accurate.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 10:35:10 pm »
So the Plaintiff receives benefits, but also incurs an "at fault" accident which will double her premiums for the next 6 years.  What a win that this.  :rofl2:

Offline Noto

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 07:33:09 am »
So the Plaintiff receives benefits, but also incurs an "at fault" accident which will double her premiums for the next 6 years.  What a win that this.  :rofl2:
This would not be an "at fault" accident, but her premiums would certainly go up because she'd lose the "claims-free" discount.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 12:09:34 pm »
what would she stand to gain from the claim? i don't disgree with them in principal i guess, but the injuries sustained by the accident would be fought against as contributory to such a point as to make the payout useless, would it not?

so dumb
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Offline Cord

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 06:33:57 pm »
My SIL experienced this and it was quite horrifying. While she was handed her coffee from the drive-thru window, the lid popped off and the entire cup's contents poured into her lap. Her car had leather seats and the hot coffee basically pooled in the bucket seat. She tried to scramble out of the car but couldn't open the door because it was against the building. She had to drive forward about 30 feet to clear the building. In the panic of being burned she couldn't get the car in gear and move forward. By the time she figured it out and got out of the car she had sustained very serious burns.
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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 08:15:15 pm »
Anyone that doesn't think this can't be serious needs to watch the documentary about that poor woman that sued McDonald's for the coffee incident.  It's eye-opening as it finally tells the story of what really happened.

As for claims on insurance - insurance is a scam.  It's nothing but loan-sharking.  If you have a claim, you'll end up paying back the cost of the claim many times over.  The theory of risk diversification is long gone - now they take your money and if they pay out, then you pay that too.  There seems to be now way for them to lose.


Offline rrocket

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 08:51:30 pm »
Common sense precautions goes a long way. I've watched IQ's drill for buying coffee. (I don't drink Tim's)

1) Always asks for double cup. According to IQ, sometimes the coffee is so hot, it burns through the cup. Then you have to rush getting the coffee into the car into the cup holder because your fingers are burning. Starbucks uses sleeves. I'm not sure if it's a rule there, but when they hand out the coffee, they always make sure you can grab the sleeve.

2) Grab the bottom of the cup, never by the lid/top. Have seen IQ ask the server to reposition THEIR hand so IQ could grab the cup appropriately.

3) As soon as cup is in car, she double checks the lid

4) Have seen IQ dump a bit off coffee out. So that the first bump you hit, there isn't a coffee spill

5) Use your own mug. I think this is the best way. Impossible for any sort of mishap with the amazing Zojirushi travel mugs we use.
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 09:45:26 pm »
^^ We still have a few Zojirushi mugs kicking around the house, but I've moved on to one from Thermos. It's a completely awesome mug, and much better than the Zojirushi, IMO. The Thermos one keeps my coffee hot seemingly forever, and has a handy button on top to open/close the flow. When it's closed, you can hang the mug completely upside down and not a drop will spill out.

95% of the time I'll make coffee myself, but if I have to stop at McDonald's or Starbucks, I'll bring my mug with me. I also prefer to walk inside to get my coffee, but admit that I'll sometimes use the McD's drive through.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 10:37:29 pm »
^^ We still have a few Zojirushi mugs kicking around the house, but I've moved on to one from Thermos. It's a completely awesome mug, and much better than the Zojirushi, IMO.

Thermos went through a crap period, but they're back, and any of the their stuff I've bought recently has been awesome.  We took two "thermos" ski touring and the Zojirushi didn't perform as well as the Thermos.  The Thermos was fantastic - despite it being -15C, the hot drink stayed almost too hot to drink all day.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 10:45:32 pm »
On weekend mornings in the winter the kid and I drive out to the ski hill.  We have a "tradition" of stopping at Timmies to grab some breakfast.  The kid usually gets a coffee of some sort, but we never have any issues.  Why?  I never use the drive through.  Ever.  First, it's filled with lazy people and the inside is empty.  Secondly, I can get myself out of the car and walk through a door.  I know that at Timmies they have that drive-through clock that means the drive through often gets service priority, but I don't care.  I get to talk to a person instead of a stupid speaker system.

Offline KD

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 10:54:31 pm »
I never go to a drive-thru!  I use a Thermos mug and not those sh!tty throw away cups.  Besides, i save 15 cents a coffee at most places!  :D

Offline rrocket

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 11:26:07 pm »
We have the "new" version of the Zojirushi. Even after 10 hours, the coffee was still piping hot.

I have no experience with the older ones.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Is Spilling Coffee an "Accident" under your Auto Policy?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 11:27:07 pm »
I'd rather sit in the comfort of a Lexus than go into a dumpy Timmies.

YMMV