Topic: JL Wrangler vs. Bronco

[BritWRX]

I have had my 2016 Golf Highline Sportwagen (TSI) for around 4 years now, so I am starting to consider a replacement.  The most that I have ever spent on a vehicle is $20k (I paid $19k for the Golf 4 years ago on 80k) but it seems that a $20k budget these days will only buy you a "worse" car.  Stretching the budget to $30k doesn't really yield anything very interesting either (maybe a 4/5 year old "base" Golf GTI)?  Up to $40k, there are a couple of new cars (Civic Si/Toyota GR86) that kind of interest me but what am I really gaining for that extra investment?  A bit more power and a bit/lot less practicality?  So I stretched the budget to $50k and you get the picture...

I've always loved the look of the Jeep Wrangler and am a sucker for a "character" car, I can't think of anything worse than spending $40k+ on a boring RAV4/CRV/Tucson etc, even though something like that would probably best meet my needs, so I took the liberty of taking a test drive in a new JL Wrangler Sahara Unlimited.  The one that I drove had the Pentastar V6, 8-speed auto, cold weather pack and body-coloured Freedom hard top, pretty much my perfect spec and an MSRP over $60k!

I was expecting it to be rubbish (the closest thing that I have driven is an old Land Rover Defender, which was pretty rubbish but quite endearing) but annoyingly I rather loved it.  I'm sure that it's possibly one of the least refined new vehicles that you can buy but it was closer to my old WJ Grand Cherokee than an old Defender but felt a bit more precise and less wallowy.  We have a Pentastar V6 in our 2015 Grand Caravan and I neither like or hate it but it sounded more tuneful in the Jeep and the 8-speed was significantly better than the 6-speed in our van, so overall the motor/transmission felt like a good match for the car.  Other than the price, my 2 major reservations were the fuel economy (averaged 15 mpg on my test drive, I'm hoping that was US but still not great) and I was shocked that the inside of the roof wasn't insulated, so I wonder how that would be to live with through the cold Manitoba winters and from a wind noise point of view.  I know that my kids would love it though, it would be a fun car to own and could cope with any road conditions.

Just a few questions re JL Wranglers.

1) Is the rear LSD a worthwhile option?

2) Best powertrain option?  As I said, the V6 auto was fine but being on the endangered list, the manual option also has some appeal.  Does the 4 cylinder option still suit the vehicle though and offer better fuel economy, which would be a definite benefit or is the well-proven V6 the better long-term bet (I would plan to keep it 7+ years) and the only issue with the Pentastar V6 in our van is that it has developed a bit of a tick at idle after 9 years and 150k (camshaft bearings worn)?  I also see that eAssist is an option on the V6 and there is also the option of a V6 Ecodiesel.  It's an expensive option new but there are a few pre-owned, low kms ones around in the mid-$50k price range.  I haven't owned a diesel for several years, so does the AdBlue thing make it a bit of a PITA?   

3) I noticed that you have to shift manually into 4H and in 4H, it was noticeably less keen to turn (presumably because it's locked in 50:50 rather than juggling power between both axles like many modern SUVs do)?  Will you damage the transmission driving it at higher speeds in 4H on the highway and presumably fuel economy is going to be significantly worse in 4H vs. 2H?

4) The one I test drove had the towing package, which I have no real need for but I do quite fancy the LED light package, as I heard the standard headlamps weren't great on the Wrangler?  I really appreciate the LED headlamps on my Golf setting out early in the morning vs. the halogens on our Grand Caravan. 

So, Wranglers are expensive but they seem to hold their money well too, so if it's a long-term proposition, I might as well benefit from the warranty and get the exact spec that I want.  To be honest, I'm not going to be doing serious off-roading in a $60k vehicle, so don't need a Rubicon but would like it to be able to cope with some gravel roads and deeper snow drifts.  I have decent winter tires on my VW, so seldom find traction an issue but have "beached" it in deep snow a few times or hit deeper snow on the highway, which has destabilized it.  My biggest concern is the fuel economy of the Wrangler vs. the VW.  Obviously, a 2 ton 4x4 with the aerodynamics of a barn door is going to be worse but I consistently get 7-8L/100km out of the VW and with a 100km round trip commute each day, I get a week worth of commuting out of a 50 litre tank.  I imagine that the Jeep would be at least 50% worse, which starts to get pretty expensive?

Or would I be better off with a new Ford Bronco?  I haven't had the chance to drive one of these yet but reviews that I have seen suggest that it's a better vehicle to drive on the highway than the Jeep, has a better safety rating and with the 4-cylinder Ecoboost, possibly a bit better on gas?  I would probably go with a 2 door Big Bend with the 4 cylinder and the pack (which gives you heated seats/dual-zone climate etc) and comes with the hard top as standard?  So possibly something like this, which would be a bit cheaper than my ideal spec Wrangler.  I think these also look cool but possibly a bit more contrived than the Wrangler and the interiors look a bit bland.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/ford/bronco/guelph/ontario/5_56376723_on20070730101826524/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&ursrc=hl&orup=2_15_15&pc=R0K+1X0&sprx=-1

[Great_Big_Abyss]

^^^Haven't seen ya for a while.  Welcome Back!

[valuator]

Welcome back.

I can think of nothing worse than taking a very useful vehicle like the new Bronco and chopping two doors off.  Get the 4-door, it will save you from your kids cursing at you daily.

[BritWRX]

^^^Haven't seen ya for a while.  Welcome Back!

Thanks.  It's been a while!

[Great_Big_Abyss]

A couple points about the JL Wrangler

1)  I hope you know what you're getting into.  They can be difficult vehicles to live with, unless you're prepared for what you're getting into.  Plenty of people are enamored by the 'romance' around a Wrangler, buy one, then end up trading it in for something a little more livable a year down the road.  It's not a huge deal if you drive primarily in the city, but if you do extended highway drives, a Wrangler can be a fairly miserable vehicle. 

2)  I think we had a member on this forum who picked up a JL Sahara with the 2.0T.  He said the engine was well suited to the vehicle.  Everything else I've heard mentions the same.  It seems like a decent option.

3)  You don't really want to drive around in 4Hi, nor do you want to go at high speed for extended periods of time.  4Hi is reserved solely for slippery conditions.  If you're interested in a more 'AWD' experience, look for a Wrangler that has 'Auto 4x4' mode.  It will detect slippery conditions and shift in/out of 4x4 as needed.  If you don't know exactly when you should be using 4x4, and 'Auto 4x4' is designed with your in mind.

No comment on Bronco vs Wrangler.  I've never been in a Bronco, therefore can't compare the two.  I've heard (anecdotally) that it is more refined and easier to live with than the Wrangler.  In my mind, it's the same class of vehicle, and will therefore be similarly compromised.

[BritWRX]

Welcome back.

I can think of nothing worse than taking a very useful vehicle like the new Bronco and chopping two doors off.  Get the 4-door, it will save you from your kids cursing at you daily.

Thanks.  Haven't seen a 2 door in person but they look a bit bigger/more practical than a 2 door Wrangler?  The 4 door Broncos look huge and I'm not sure would fit in my garage (it's a 2 car garage but lengthways not widthways)!  It's just a car for me mostly ie we would still have the van for family duties and the kids did just fine in the back of my MINI and with the hardtop being extra on the 4 door (think it's standard on the 2 door), a $50k vehicle soon becomes a $60k vehicle when you add the extra doors.

[JohnnyMac]

I still think the Bronco is a very long wait to source one.  The Wrangler as noted comes with a lot of compromises.  If I was getting one I'd want the more proven V6, I doubt you'd see any fuel economy benefits to the turbo 4, the diesel is a reliability nightmare.  I lost all interest in the Wrangler when I helped a neighbor put her hard top on in the spring.  What a huge pain in the butt that was. 

If you want a characterful SUV, some reliability, something you can live with in your climate, take you off the beaten path, and be worth a decent amount after 7 years, there is only one answer Toyota 4Runner.  Or if you are okay with used, I'd highly recommend the Lexus equivalent with a V8, the Lexus GX.  Those would be what I would want for a true characterful SUV that won't feel like any $50K CR-V, Rav4, etc, but also be livable.

[BritWRX]

A couple points about the JL Wrangler

1)  I hope you know what you're getting into.  They can be difficult vehicles to live with, unless you're prepared for what you're getting into.  Plenty of people are enamored by the 'romance' around a Wrangler, buy one, then end up trading it in for something a little more livable a year down the road.  It's not a huge deal if you drive primarily in the city, but if you do extended highway drives, a Wrangler can be a fairly miserable vehicle. 

2)  I think we had a member on this forum who picked up a JL Sahara with the 2.0T.  He said the engine was well suited to the vehicle.  Everything else I've heard mentions the same.  It seems like a decent option.

3)  You don't really want to drive around in 4Hi, nor do you want to go at high speed for extended periods of time.  4Hi is reserved solely for slippery conditions.  If you're interested in a more 'AWD' experience, look for a Wrangler that has 'Auto 4x4' mode.  It will detect slippery conditions and shift in/out of 4x4 as needed.  If you don't know exactly when you should be using 4x4, and 'Auto 4x4' is designed with your in mind.

No comment on Bronco vs Wrangler.  I've never been in a Bronco, therefore can't compare the two.  I've heard (anecdotally) that it is more refined and easier to live with than the Wrangler.  In my mind, it's the same class of vehicle, and will therefore be similarly compromised.

Thanks.  Is that the Selec-Trac Full-Time 4WD option?  I didn't realize that was an option (don't think it's available on the manual).  Seems like a no-brainer for $795 really, especially as it includes the rear LSD.  I've driven work trucks with both part-time 4WD and auto 4WD and the difference in agility when in 4H/4A is quite noticeable.

[PJungnitsch]

the diesel is a reliability nightmare.

That's what I've heard as well, especially for a long term purchase but even when relatively new that VM Motori diesel has given a lot of trouble. And when diesels give trouble, every fix is expensive

[Great_Big_Abyss]

A couple points about the JL Wrangler

1)  I hope you know what you're getting into.  They can be difficult vehicles to live with, unless you're prepared for what you're getting into.  Plenty of people are enamored by the 'romance' around a Wrangler, buy one, then end up trading it in for something a little more livable a year down the road.  It's not a huge deal if you drive primarily in the city, but if you do extended highway drives, a Wrangler can be a fairly miserable vehicle. 

2)  I think we had a member on this forum who picked up a JL Sahara with the 2.0T.  He said the engine was well suited to the vehicle.  Everything else I've heard mentions the same.  It seems like a decent option.

3)  You don't really want to drive around in 4Hi, nor do you want to go at high speed for extended periods of time.  4Hi is reserved solely for slippery conditions.  If you're interested in a more 'AWD' experience, look for a Wrangler that has 'Auto 4x4' mode.  It will detect slippery conditions and shift in/out of 4x4 as needed.  If you don't know exactly when you should be using 4x4, and 'Auto 4x4' is designed with your in mind.

No comment on Bronco vs Wrangler.  I've never been in a Bronco, therefore can't compare the two.  I've heard (anecdotally) that it is more refined and easier to live with than the Wrangler.  In my mind, it's the same class of vehicle, and will therefore be similarly compromised.

Thanks.  Is that the Selec-Trac Full-Time 4WD option?  I didn't realize that was an option (don't think it's available on the manual).  Seems like a no-brainer for $795 really, especially as it includes the rear LSD.  I've driven work trucks with both part-time 4WD and auto 4WD and the difference in agility when in 4H/4A is quite noticeable.

Correct, Selec-Trac, available only with automatic transmission.  Worthwhile option, however, if you aren't familiar with a part-time 4x4 system, and aren't sure when you should and shouldn't be in 4Hi or 2Hi.

[BritWRX]

A couple points about the JL Wrangler

1)  I hope you know what you're getting into.  They can be difficult vehicles to live with, unless you're prepared for what you're getting into.  Plenty of people are enamored by the 'romance' around a Wrangler, buy one, then end up trading it in for something a little more livable a year down the road.  It's not a huge deal if you drive primarily in the city, but if you do extended highway drives, a Wrangler can be a fairly miserable vehicle. 

2)  I think we had a member on this forum who picked up a JL Sahara with the 2.0T.  He said the engine was well suited to the vehicle.  Everything else I've heard mentions the same.  It seems like a decent option.

3)  You don't really want to drive around in 4Hi, nor do you want to go at high speed for extended periods of time.  4Hi is reserved solely for slippery conditions.  If you're interested in a more 'AWD' experience, look for a Wrangler that has 'Auto 4x4' mode.  It will detect slippery conditions and shift in/out of 4x4 as needed.  If you don't know exactly when you should be using 4x4, and 'Auto 4x4' is designed with your in mind.

No comment on Bronco vs Wrangler.  I've never been in a Bronco, therefore can't compare the two.  I've heard (anecdotally) that it is more refined and easier to live with than the Wrangler.  In my mind, it's the same class of vehicle, and will therefore be similarly compromised.

Thanks.  Is that the Selec-Trac Full-Time 4WD option?  I didn't realize that was an option (don't think it's available on the manual).  Seems like a no-brainer for $795 really, especially as it includes the rear LSD.  I've driven work trucks with both part-time 4WD and auto 4WD and the difference in agility when in 4H/4A is quite noticeable.

Correct, Selec-Trac, available only with automatic transmission.  Worthwhile option, however, if you aren't familiar with a part-time 4x4 system, and aren't sure when you should and shouldn't be in 4Hi or 2Hi.

Sounds like a worthwhile option then.  So manual and diesel is out, so that leaves V6 or 4 cylinder. I guess that I should try the 4 cylinder.  I like the V6 just fine, it's well proven and seems to suit the vehicle but if the 4 cylinder was sufficiently better on gas, then that might sway me.

I assume that the Bronco has a similar part time/auto 4WD in this respect? I'm hoping that you can get it on the 4 cylinder Big Bend or without having to upgrade to the V6 or a higher trim level.  From what I can see, you have to go up to an Outer Banks to get a heated steering wheel, which I would have liked but for that size premium, I would just wear thicker gloves!

[Great_Big_Abyss]

^^^Just building a Bronco, to see if Auto 4x4 is available, and it is, but you have to add the Sasquatch Package, which adds close to $10k to the price. 

Also, as mentioned, availability of the Bronco will be tough.  Ford is no longer accepting orders for the Bronco this year. 

[PJungnitsch]

Seeing some big discounts on Wranglers, likely related to Chryco's high stock levels of everything

[OliverD]

^^^Just building a Bronco, to see if Auto 4x4 is available, and it is, but you have to add the Sasquatch Package, which adds close to $10k to the price. 

Also, as mentioned, availability of the Bronco will be tough.  Ford is no longer accepting orders for the Bronco this year.

Slight correction: It's also standard on the Badlands without the Sasquatch package.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

^^^He mentioned he wanted the Big Bend trim, so I was seeing what it would take to get the feature at that level.

[OliverD]

Ah gotcha.

[Ontariodriver]

I assume that the Bronco has a similar part time/auto 4WD in this respect? 

Bronco has a similar part-time/auto 4-wheel drive system like the Jeep Wrangler JL. The Bronco offers a 4x4 system with a two-speed transfer case that allows the you to switch between two-wheel drive and four-wheel drive as needed. The Bronco also offers an optional automatic 4-wheel drive system that automatically engages four-wheel drive when additional traction is needed. Ford Bronco's 4-wheel drive system provides good off-road capabilities, but it may not be as capable as the Wrangler JL's system, which is known for off-road performance. Still doesn't beat a defender Lol.

I also assume, you might not know, you also have to replace all 4 tires, even if there is only one wrong tire. Both vehicles I'd be nervous about buying. Jeeps also hold there money too.

[DriverJeff]

Howdy!  As others have said, if you are honest with yourself about what you're getting into (miserable fuel consumption, noisy, bumpy, roly-poly handling), then both of these machines are serious fun.

I've driven the Bronco is several variations - 2-door and 4-door and each powertrain from 4-banger through the Braptor. If you're serious about doing some proper off-roading, the Bronco Badlands is the way to go, imo. It offers everything you need to be a serious off-road machine, without getting completely bonkers in cost like the Raptor. The Everglades (if you can find one) is a close second. The 4-banger is all you really need in the Bronco. These things aren't meant to be drag-strip machines and honestly the smaller engine does just fine in it.

As for Wranglers, we've had a few in our garage for years, including a '21 2-door Willys that's slowly getting modded. It's a V6, stick shift and while it's decent enough fun, the 2L turbo with auto is the better drivetrain choice for the Wrangler. It's a bit more efficient, but much more important, the low-end torque is notably improved and felt in daily driving.  Like with the Bronco, if you think you're going to get into off-roading at all (and I highly recommend it -- it's excellent fun), just go for a Rubicon. The locking diffs have been the difference between getting free and being stuck on several occasions, and if we had had the Rubi's disconnecting sway bars last year when doing some rock crawling, we would've probably saved the roof panel that got smashed when our Jeep was bouncing side-to-side more than we'd have liked and struck a tree.

2-doors are better for serious off-road trails, but the Bronco Badland's "skid-steer" feature works incredibly well, and honestly, for the handful of times we're happy to have the smaller Jeep on a trail, there are far, far more times we wish we had the greater usability of the 4-door's space.  The 2-door luggage / passenger room in both Bronco and Wrangler are pretty small.


Lastly, as a bit of a wildcard for consideration, if you're looking at upper trim models in either Bronco or Wrangler, maybe give a quick consideration to a new Defender.  The base model, 2-door has a bit more room inside than the other two, IIRC, is far more refined, and if you keep the options in check, can be virtually the same price.  Plus, one would assume JLR is offering discounts too? 

[BritWRX]

Thanks for the information.  Quick update on this.  Went to another dealer to try and get a test drive in a 4 cylinder Wrangler, as their website said they had one but apparently it was “sold” but still on the lot, so he tried to sell me a V6 Gladiator that he had on the lot instead, which I didn’t want.  I left with what I thought was a clear message that I didn’t know whether I wanted the 4 cylinder or the V6 and to let me know if he got another 4 cylinder in that I could test drive and I had a missed call about a week later where he left a message asking if I had any more thoughts about the Gladiator and when was I going to come in with my trade, so I didn’t bother calling him back.  My Ford dealership experience was just as bad, which is disappointing as I kind of know the guy.  When I went in, they only had a Black Diamond spec one in, which he let me have a look at but wouldn’t let me drive, as I said that I would more likely be looking at a Big Bend and he didn’t think the Black Diamond would be representative, even though it had the same engine.  He said that he had Big Bends coming and would call me to arrange a test drive but I go by there fairly regularly and see that they have some in but he hasn’t called me yet, so who knows?  I’m not in a massive rush, the Golf is on 150k but still going strong and as I wait, I’m paying more and more of it off, so I’m happy to wait for the first dealership to get a 4 cylinder Wrangler in for me to try and test a Bronco at another dealership when it suits me.

Re the Land Rover, I’d love a new Defender but even the cheapest pre-owned ones seem to be $80k+ and based on my in-law’s ownership experience of their Evoque (simpler car, so should be less to go wrong?), I can expect pretty poor reliability, expensive parts and poor parts availability and we still seem to be in a demand exceeds supply situation with most manufacturers at the moment, so I doubt they would discount.

Due to the above experiences, I’m leaning towards a new Wrangler at the moment.  Sahara Unlimited, Sting Grey, body colour hardtop, winter pack, LED lighting group, Selec-Trac 4WD, not sure which engine.  That’s a $60k vehicle and I’d rather not pay that much but at the same time, I’ve never spent more than $20k on a vehicle before, so I kind of want the options that I want and not have to pay for other options that I don’t want but would consider a slight deviation from that spec if it was a really good deal or on a lightly used unit in a close spec.  Can’t say I’ve seen any with the LED lighting group or Select-Trac 4WD though.  I would be paying cash, so I’m thinking at least this way, I would benefit from the full manufacturer’s warranty if I want to keep it a long time and if I decide after a few years that a Wrangler’s not for me, it’s an asset that shouldn’t lose too much money and I can always get out of it into something cheaper.

I’m not set on either or this type of vehicle too.  Something like a pre-owned AWD Mercedes-Benz C-Class/GLC may meet my needs better (better fuel economy/more refined/automatic AWD) and you seem to be able to get a decent one for around $40k.  Not as cool as a Wrangler/Bronco but still very nice cars.   

[Fobroader]

Honestly, if I was looking at a JL, I would stick with the 3.6. They are, for a Chryco product, fairly bulletproof. Also, with this being a 4 door, stability on slick surfaces if pretty freaking awesome, that way you can save some cash, and complexity, and go part time 4x4. Our JK spent most of the winter in 2wd because of the studded Hakkas on it, I would just put it in 4x4 when it was really icy and I had to leave an icy intersection or an advanced green.