Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Honda Odyssey Touring

[Fobroader]

The Caravan would be very tempting though, just its so much cheaper and its <B>such a bad vehicle<B> that it will make me try harder at work and work overtime to be able to afford a Boss 302 as a weekend car. 

For the price I would say it is better than Odissey and Sienna. Is bad in which way? It has the better engine, 6 speed auto, functional interior, Stow and Go.....

The interior is poor when compared to its Japanese competitors and the seats are nowhere near as comfortable. Also its not nearly as refined of a drivetrain.....the only thing it has is its price, the $20Kish price makes it very desirable to young parents starting out.

[Snowman]

I'm no fan of the van but I must say this looks OK:

[Fobroader]

50k for any minivan doesn't compute. I couldn't justify 2x the price of a Grand Cavavan. If I had to drive a van, upscale wouldn't be my choice.

Maybe a GC and a used Miata? more happiness than a fancy Honda (or Toyota) van.

I like the way you think sir!!!

[Frontier1]

The Caravan would be very tempting though, just its so much cheaper and its <B>such a bad vehicle<B> that it will make me try harder at work and work overtime to be able to afford a Boss 302 as a weekend car. 

For the price I would say it is better than Odissey and Sienna. Is bad in which way? It has the better engine, 6 speed auto, functional interior, Stow and Go.....

The interior is poor when compared to its Japanese competitors and the seats are nowhere near as comfortable. Also its not nearly as refined of a drivetrain.....the only thing it has is its price, the $20Kish price makes it very desirable to young parents starting out.

Interior is poor?  Dont know, the Sienna looks good on the outside but sure is pityfull on the inside, where did Toyota find this grade of plastic to put in there?

For the interior, nothing touches the Quest, the van might be a bit smaller but I cant see why I would need bigger and probably most people dont.

But really minivans just like pickups are stupidly expensive, a Caravan will do the job and the price is right.

[bombastic]

The Caravan would be very tempting though, just its so much cheaper and its <B>such a bad vehicle<B> that it will make me try harder at work and work overtime to be able to afford a Boss 302 as a weekend car. 

For the price I would say it is better than Odissey and Sienna. Is bad in which way? It has the better engine, 6 speed auto, functional interior, Stow and Go.....

I can't qualify the Pentastar as necessarily a better engine.  It merely caught up with the competition but didn't advance.  Despite the Caravan having the 6 speed auto, it's fuel economy is poor compared to the Odyssey.  The Stow and Go seats, while practical, are very uncomfortable on longer distances.  For the few times the seats would have to come out, I would rather have a comfortable seat.

If you can't qualify the engine it does not mean is no good. It got Wards 10 best engines for the last 3 years. Cannot say the same about Honda V6. Poor fuel economy? That's interesting. Honda V6 11.2 l/100 combined. Dodge GC 11.8 l/100 combined. Difference is minimal, however GC has more torque and power. As of very uncomfortable seats... Yes, they are not as good as Honda, but calling them uncomfortable is pure BS. I just came from round trim Toronto-Montreal and did not experience any of what you say.

[johngenx]

Id have a tough time in the market for a new Mini-Van.  The Grand Caravan "Canada Value" is crazy in how much you get for your money.  And the days of those vans imploding the moment the warranty is up are gone.  Right?

But, I really like the Sienna with AWD.  It's the full time AWD from the Highlander, and works very, very well.  I can't think of a better mini-van for mountain trips and for ferrying kids around.  My friend has an AWD Sienna and we've used it a couple times on ski trips, and though it lacks the ground clearance of an SUV, it can handle bad roads shockingly well.

The Honda wouldn't be on the list.  Too much money and no AWD.

In the end, I think I'd just buy an older AWD Sienna and not take the depreciation hit.

[mixmanmash]

The Caravan would be very tempting though, just its so much cheaper and its <B>such a bad vehicle<B> that it will make me try harder at work and work overtime to be able to afford a Boss 302 as a weekend car. 

For the price I would say it is better than Odissey and Sienna. Is bad in which way? It has the better engine, 6 speed auto, functional interior, Stow and Go.....

I can't qualify the Pentastar as necessarily a better engine.  It merely caught up with the competition but didn't advance.  Despite the Caravan having the 6 speed auto, it's fuel economy is poor compared to the Odyssey.  The Stow and Go seats, while practical, are very uncomfortable on longer distances.  For the few times the seats would have to come out, I would rather have a comfortable seat.

If you can't qualify the engine it does not mean is no good. It got Wards 10 best engines for the last 3 years. Cannot say the same about Honda V6. Poor fuel economy? That's interesting. Honda V6 11.2 l/100 combined. Dodge GC 11.8 l/100 combined. Difference is minimal, however GC has more torque and power. As of very uncomfortable seats... Yes, they are not as good as Honda, but calling them uncomfortable is pure BS. I just came from round trim Toronto-Montreal and did not experience any of what you say.

Just because Honda and Toyota don't have their engines currently on some list doesn't make it a bad engine.  I merely said that the Pentastar isn't that much better if any at all. More power and torque, eh?  Peak numbers at a high rpm mean nothing in a vehicle of this size. It is a little weak down low, IMO.  As for fuel economy, real world numbers are showing it isn't as good as Honda for fuel economy.  Let me guess, you sat in the drivers or front passenger seat?  Those are fine.  Try the middle and rear row.  I recently did on a trip to Maui.  7 adults and the 5 in the back were always complaining about the seats.

I see you own a GC.  I understand the need to defend it.  I can't argue about the price performance on the CVP, but on higher trimmed models, I would look elsewhere.

[rrocket]

It got Wards 10 best engines for the last 3 years.

Ward's is a joke...please.  Some years, there will be an engine on it.  The next year it will be off...but the following year it's back on the list.  Same engine all 3 years, but for some reason it was good in year 1, not good enough to be on the list in year 2, but back on the list in year 3.     Same. Engine.

And the Honda Odyssey engine has been on the list several times (including 2013).  It's Honda's J35 engine that powers the Odyssey...and the Accord...and Acuras.  Same engine in different states of tune...just like the Pentastar engines.

[johngenx]

Does Wards pull them open and look at the engineering inside?

I remember when Mercedes brought out the M111 DOHC four cylinder engine.  Mercedes might have been known for their sixes and eights in North America, but they sell a LOT of small engines cars around the world, and were damned proud of this engine when it was new.

They had a road show that hit dealers and owners were invited.  Most came for the free food, but I was super interested in the new engine.  They had one "cut" in half so you could see inside, and then one completely disassembled.  One of the engineering team was there to chat.  I've built a few engines in my day and was shocked at the little four banger.  The quality of the parts was incredible.  The sheer heft of key bits was amazing.  There was a double row timing chain that looked like it was from some giant industrial engine, not a humble 150hp car.

Specific output is cool, and fancy acronyms might look great in a brochure, but the engineering that goes into the engine is what means it will outlast every other part on the car and do it while making good power and fuel economy.

[whaddaiknow]

50k for any minivan doesn't compute. I couldn't justify 2x the price of a Grand Cavavan. If I had to drive a van, upscale wouldn't be my choice.

Maybe a GC and a used Miata? more happiness than a fancy Honda (or Toyota) van.

Agree, 50k doesn't compute. But 34k for a well equipped well enginnered van  does compute very well and stacks up even better against a stripper from Dodge.

[Fobroader]

Id have a tough time in the market for a new Mini-Van.  The Grand Caravan "Canada Value" is crazy in how much you get for your money.  And the days of those vans imploding the moment the warranty is up are gone.  Right?

But, I really like the Sienna with AWD.  It's the full time AWD from the Highlander, and works very, very well.  I can't think of a better mini-van for mountain trips and for ferrying kids around.  My friend has an AWD Sienna and we've used it a couple times on ski trips, and though it lacks the ground clearance of an SUV, it can handle bad roads shockingly well.

The Honda wouldn't be on the list.  Too much money and no AWD.

In the end, I think I'd just buy an older AWD Sienna and not take the depreciation hit.

I think for where we live that would be the way to go, used Sienna AWD plus a set of Nokian snows would make for an absolutely safe, comfortable family transport......still would hate the fact Im in a minivan, but at least the AWD would take some of the "life sucks" out of it 

[tooscoops]

i agree with a few people... i think the toyota has the premium priced van pretty well covered due to the offering of awd... GC has the low priced vans owned due to nothing being close in price. the stuff in the middle is just for people who really like one part of what they have to offer (honda's reliability track record, nissan interior, etc.)

as for wards... i agree they are not something to be relied upon, but they do mean something. if it was on one year and off the next, it just means something knocked it off that year. and though it's the same engine, there are minor changes every year that might just put it back up there on their top ten. (valve timing, mds, skyactiv)

as for mix's comments about the GC... sure it "caught up" to the other engines.. i agree it didn't totally surpass the others... but this van is 55% of the cost of the cheapest other ones!!! you can't get better engines, better fuel economy, more comfortable seats, and stowing seats for close to half the price... if they could, no other company would need to bother building a van.

[bombastic]

The Caravan would be very tempting though, just its so much cheaper and its <B>such a bad vehicle<B> that it will make me try harder at work and work overtime to be able to afford a Boss 302 as a weekend car. 

For the price I would say it is better than Odissey and Sienna. Is bad in which way? It has the better engine, 6 speed auto, functional interior, Stow and Go.....

I can't qualify the Pentastar as necessarily a better engine.  It merely caught up with the competition but didn't advance.  Despite the Caravan having the 6 speed auto, it's fuel economy is poor compared to the Odyssey.  The Stow and Go seats, while practical, are very uncomfortable on longer distances.  For the few times the seats would have to come out, I would rather have a comfortable seat.

If you can't qualify the engine it does not mean is no good. It got Wards 10 best engines for the last 3 years. Cannot say the same about Honda V6. Poor fuel economy? That's interesting. Honda V6 11.2 l/100 combined. Dodge GC 11.8 l/100 combined. Difference is minimal, however GC has more torque and power. As of very uncomfortable seats... Yes, they are not as good as Honda, but calling them uncomfortable is pure BS. I just came from round trim Toronto-Montreal and did not experience any of what you say.

Just because Honda and Toyota don't have their engines currently on some list doesn't make it a bad engine.  I merely said that the Pentastar isn't that much better if any at all. More power and torque, eh?  Peak numbers at a high rpm mean nothing in a vehicle of this size. It is a little weak down low, IMO.  As for fuel economy, real world numbers are showing it isn't as good as Honda for fuel economy.  Let me guess, you sat in the drivers or front passenger seat?  Those are fine.  Try the middle and rear row.  I recently did on a trip to Maui.  7 adults and the 5 in the back were always complaining about the seats.

I see you own a GC.  I understand the need to defend it.  I can't argue about the price performance on the CVP, but on higher trimmed models, I would look elsewhere.

It does not make Honda and Toyota bad engines. Is just worse than Pentastar. Thats all.
I gave you the real fuel economy numbers. Try fueleconomy.org. What are you talking about? Yes I own a GC. Defending? Yes, why not if the value is there? Next time when travel with your friends try to recline the seats. It might help.

[tooscoops]

i still wouldn't say the engines are worse... just comparable. and i agree about mileage... epa i find to be very accurate... they rate them 21mpg and 20mpg respectively.

[Fobroader]

i still wouldn't say the engines are worse... just comparable. and i agree about mileage... epa i find to be very accurate... they rate them 21mpg and 20mpg respectively.

Ive driven the pentastar in the Wrangler, nice enough engine but I still wouldnt put it above the Toyota in smoothness. Its a very competitive engine for sure, especially when compared to that 3.8....

[rrocket]

It does not make Honda and Toyota bad engines. Is just worse than Pentastar. Thats all.
I gave you the real fuel economy numbers. Try fueleconomy.org. What are you talking about? Yes I own a GC. Defending? Yes, why not if the value is there? Next time when travel with your friends try to recline the seats. It might help.

Fuel economy.org is not real world fuel numbers.  Go to Fuelly.com for real world.  And you'll see the Toyota and Honda and GC are all at 20 US MPG lifetime.  All the same in the real world.

[bombastic]

It does not make Honda and Toyota bad engines. Is just worse than Pentastar. Thats all.
I gave you the real fuel economy numbers. Try fueleconomy.org. What are you talking about? Yes I own a GC. Defending? Yes, why not if the value is there? Next time when travel with your friends try to recline the seats. It might help.

Fuel economy.org is not real world fuel numbers.  Go to Fuelly.com for real world.  And you'll see the Toyota and Honda and GC are all at 20 US MPG lifetime.  All the same in the real world.

+1. I think it consumption has more to do with the weight of the van than the engine power/torque. And they weight more/less the same.

[greengs]

Our 2012 Odyssey averages around 16-17mpg but it's mostly short trips through the neighbourhood etc.  Tested the Odyssey, GC and Sienna.  For us Odyssey was the best by far.  Interior was far superior to the other two as well as seat arrangement, storage space and the way it drove.  We bought the EX-Res for around 37k out the door. 

[Solstice2006]

For bigger minivans like these, I prefer the Toyota Sienna (XLE) for the lounge seating, and removable captains chairs, among other things.  The SE trim looks better and handles better than the Odyssey.  The Honda does have better interior materials though.  I don't think there is anything wrong with spending 40k-50k on a minivan, people do that on 7 seater CUVs.  Like the Flex, GM triplets, Highlander, Pilot, etc.  So what's the difference, obviously there is a market for both.  I respect the value of the Grand Caravan, would I buy a 4 year old GC? No.  4 year old Sienna or Odyssey?  Yes. 

[mixmanmash]

For bigger minivans like these, I prefer the Toyota Sienna (XLE) for the lounge seating, and removable captains chairs, among other things.  The SE trim looks better and handles better than the Odyssey.  The Honda does have better interior materials though.  I don't think there is anything wrong with spending 40k-50k on a minivan, people do that on 7 seater CUVs.  Like the Flex, GM triplets, Highlander, Pilot, etc.  So what's the difference, obviously there is a market for both.  I respect the value of the Grand Caravan, would I buy a 4 year old GC? No.  4 year old Sienna or Odyssey?  Yes.

Really?  That's the first I have heard of a Sienna handling better.  However, I think feature packages and value is better with the Odyssey.  No heated seats in the Sienna SE for example.  You have to get a leather trimmed Sienna for that.  I found the pricing better on the Odyssey as well.