Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD Premium

[mixmanmash]

I'd bank on GM reliability long before anything German frankly.

Your other points apply equally to the German competition. None are cheap, none are spacious, all are poor choices for cost of ownership, and depreciation in the class isn't stellar. CUE over iDrive is a wash based on my limited experience.

Clearly your personal opinion.

From my current experience - 34,000km and 21 months into the lease, I havn't spent a single penny beyond gas fillups on my 3-series. Only 1 visit to the shop for an oil change. Couldn't be better for reliability. I do NOT care what's going to happen beyond the 4-year lease/warranty term. I'll be in another car by then.

Anyone paying $55k is probably buying new. BMW gives you a total peace of mind for the duration of the lease.
Caddy? I don't want to go to Myers Chevrolet in Kanata to service/fix my luxo car. And I simply don't trust GM.

Hardly enough mileage to determine reliability IMO.  Try 4 years and 100000kms as a minimum.  Oh wait, you don't own them that long...  And that makes you qualified to talk about reliability?

[mixmanmash]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

[ChaosphereIX]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

[mixmanmash]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

Sounds like Edmonton roads.  And true, I haven't ever been to Ottawa.

[Fobroader]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

I will take you down some roads in Edmonton where a F150 SVT Raptor would be challenged. Also the altitude isnt that much different, we are only about 600M higher than Ottawa.

[whaddaiknow]

Hardly enough mileage to determine reliability IMO.  Try 4 years and 100000kms as a minimum.  Oh wait, you don't own them that long...  And that makes you qualified to talk about reliability?

Anyone considering a FGC out of warranty needs to go see a psychiatrist first. Not because they are unreliable, just because they are expensive to maintain and fix. If you can't afford a new FGC, you definitely can't afford a used one.

With Cadillac, and GM in general, all you need to do is go to your local dealer that sells 1-year-old imports from the US. Check the wear on the interior (leather, plastic bits, steering wheel). Open and close all the doors. GM never left me "disappointed".
I used to do that for kicks and giggles at Myers in Kanata. Rattles in door panels and in the dash, pieces falling off the dash, worn leather - all of that speaks for itself.
After nearly 2 years driving the 3-series, I bet you couldn't tell it from new after a quick wash.

[mixmanmash]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

I will take you down some roads in Edmonton where a F150 SVT Raptor would be challenged. Also the altitude isnt that much different, we are only about 600M higher than Ottawa.

600m is pretty significant.  You would definitely feel a power difference.  I certainly do between Edmonton and Calgary (which is about a 400m difference).  It's more pronounced between Edmonton and Vancouver.

[ChaosphereIX]

Hardly enough mileage to determine reliability IMO.  Try 4 years and 100000kms as a minimum.  Oh wait, you don't own them that long...  And that makes you qualified to talk about reliability?

Anyone considering a FGC out of warranty needs to go see a psychiatrist first. Not because they are unreliable, just because they are expensive to maintain and fix. If you can't afford a new FGC, you definitely can't afford a used one.

With Cadillac, and GM in general, all you need to do is go to your local dealer that sells 1-year-old imports from the US. Check the wear on the interior (leather, plastic bits, steering wheel). Open and close all the doors. GM never left me "disappointed".
I used to do that for kicks and giggles at Myers in Kanata. Rattles in door panels and in the dash, pieces falling off the dash, worn leather - all of that speaks for itself.
After nearly 2 years driving the 3-series, I bet you couldn't tell it from new after a quick wash.

those 1 year old imports are all ex-daily rentals or other sort of fleet vehicles - not been babied like your 3-series but rather abused. Generally, I have found GM trim interiors to be ok, but not up to the standards of the Germans - with the exception of the new Buicks which really impress. FGC out of warranty are horrendously expensive to fix even for small things...take a 07 A4 2.0T [a car I love] for example...timing belt where half the engine has to come apart every 75k, water pump, HPFP issues with premature wear and have to be replaced every 50k or so, coil packs that dont really last as long as they should, PCV issues, suspension bits that all fall apart after 100k or 5 years. I know all cars start falling apart after 5 years or so and things need to be replaced, but with ze Germans it is just so expensive to get it done...

[Fobroader]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

I will take you down some roads in Edmonton where a F150 SVT Raptor would be challenged. Also the altitude isnt that much different, we are only about 600M higher than Ottawa.

600m is pretty significant.  You would definitely feel a power difference.  I certainly do between Edmonton and Calgary (which is about a 400m difference).  It's more pronounced between Edmonton and Vancouver.

But it wont be worth 5L/100Km in mileage. I agree, if youre trying to land an aircraft or plan your flight through some mountain ranges, yes, 600M is quite a bit, for a car, shouldnt be that big of a difference.

[mixmanmash]

Hardly enough mileage to determine reliability IMO.  Try 4 years and 100000kms as a minimum.  Oh wait, you don't own them that long...  And that makes you qualified to talk about reliability?

Anyone considering a FGC out of warranty needs to go see a psychiatrist first. Not because they are unreliable, just because they are expensive to maintain and fix. If you can't afford a new FGC, you definitely can't afford a used one.

With Cadillac, and GM in general, all you need to do is go to your local dealer that sells 1-year-old imports from the US. Check the wear on the interior (leather, plastic bits, steering wheel). Open and close all the doors. GM never left me "disappointed".
I used to do that for kicks and giggles at Myers in Kanata. Rattles in door panels and in the dash, pieces falling off the dash, worn leather - all of that speaks for itself.
After nearly 2 years driving the 3-series, I bet you couldn't tell it from new after a quick wash.

I'll tell my dad that he needs to get checked as he still owns his FGC that he purchased brand new in 2000.  Considering it is an MB product, the service costs haven't been out of hand when compared to even my lowly Mazda.  Parts costs have been reasonable compared to even Nissan.  True, the dealers rape, but if you find a good independent shop that specializes in these cars, the costs are considerably lower.  I typically have found BMW and Cadillac parts pricing to be stupidly expensive.  Are they made out of gold or platinum?

I guess it helps that I do work on cars myself too, so a lot of stuff can be repaired myself.

[mixmanmash]

Why is 10.1L/100km really good and 13 reasonable?  13???  Geez

400hp All-wheel drive 911 and I get 9.5!

Not a fair comparison.  What's the altitude in Ottawa versus Edmonton?  You'll find that you need to hit the go pedal harder to move the same.  As well, temperature and road conditions play in.

I think Edmonton roads currently have a high rolling resistance from how broken and pot-holed they are.

while I agree that driving styles have a huge impact on fuel economy, you sir obviously have never driven down Carling Avenue or Jockvale Avenue here in Ottawa...shocking. Hard to call them roads with all the broken pavement and pot holes.

I will take you down some roads in Edmonton where a F150 SVT Raptor would be challenged. Also the altitude isnt that much different, we are only about 600M higher than Ottawa.

600m is pretty significant.  You would definitely feel a power difference.  I certainly do between Edmonton and Calgary (which is about a 400m difference).  It's more pronounced between Edmonton and Vancouver.

But it wont be worth 5L/100Km in mileage. I agree, if youre trying to land an aircraft or plan your flight through some mountain ranges, yes, 600M is quite a bit, for a car, shouldnt be that big of a difference.

I'd say depending on the vehicle, it could be as high as 2 L/100 km.

[whaddaiknow]

I'll tell my dad that he needs to get checked as he still owns his FGC that he purchased brand new in 2000.  Considering it is an MB product, the service costs haven't been out of hand when compared to even my lowly Mazda.  Parts costs have been reasonable compared to even Nissan.  True, the dealers rape, but if you find a good independent shop that specializes in these cars, the costs are considerably lower.  I typically have found BMW and Cadillac parts pricing to be stupidly expensive.  Are they made out of gold or platinum?

I guess it helps that I do work on cars myself too, so a lot of stuff can be repaired myself.

No need for your dad to get his head checked. Obviously it doesn't apply to him as he bought it NEW. He could afford it new, he can afford it now that it's 13 yo.

The common wisdom is if you can't afford a new one, you can't afford a used one either because what you pay upfront and not pay in the first 4 years under warranty, you're gonna have to pay in maintenance and repairs.

Volvo's are probably even worse for that. 3rd party replacement parts are generally not available allowing the dealers to get away with rape.