Author Topic: Leaf or Focus Electric?  (Read 22305 times)

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2017, 01:49:04 pm »
Spent a full week with the Focus EV and it was a hoot to drive, a real point-and-shoot like the BMW i3. Charged overnight on 120V at home, charged overday at 120V at the office, no range issue for my 50km round-trip commute. Max range 125km, drops to 100km with heater on.


Drove the Leaf during an EV comparo (published in the 2017 Guide de l'auto), and it's the beige Corolla of EVs. Does everything right, except it has no soul and was the most boring of the group. Also the only one that nearly ran out of "fuel" during our winter comparo.

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20160503/when-is-an-ev-worth-it-alternative-fuels-and-the-pocketbook/

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20160608/when-is-the-right-time-to-take-the-ev-plunge/

2017 Focus EV comes with 200km range and Level 2 DC charging, but not on the market yet I think.

For the record, I tested the Sonata PHEV for autos.ca and got 1 l/100km, ditto with the 2017 Volt tested for Trader on the French side of things.

http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/test-drive-2016-hyundai-sonata-phev/

http://www.autohebdo.net/nouvelles/20170113/chevrolet-volt-2017-lelectron-libre/?lang=fr

...based on these experiences, I'm trading my TDI on a PHEV  :)

400V DC Fast Charge (DCFC) is level 3  8)

The 2017 Ford EV with CCS combo port 400Vdc and increased battery size make it a better per kWh value (especially with Ontario incentive) for a 1st generation range EV category. It seems to be possible to configure one from Ford.ca ...

According to the SAE, 240-450V fast charge is DC Level 2. 240V Domestic / public charging stations are AC Level 2. Level 3 is under development.

http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingspeeds.pdf
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Offline me_2

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2017, 10:41:41 pm »

According to the SAE, 240-450V fast charge is DC Level 2. 240V Domestic / public charging stations are AC Level 2. Level 3 is under development.

http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingspeeds.pdf

Seem a bit old (2011) reference. In Europe, they have three phase input (L3 AC) up to 43kWac I believe with some model. J1772 in NA is single phase only.

All electromobilists I know, they refers to level 3 as DCFC, which bypass the onboard AC charger to push DC power right into the traction battery...
The higher DC power observed with my Spark was 47-48kW (120Adc 390-400Vdc) below 78% SOC, for a 21,4kWh battery is cover by L2 DC as defined, but L3 ≥ L2 ≥ L1
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:02:24 am by me_2 »
Gone but not forgotten in chronological order: 2019 Volt, 2013 Volt, 2014 Spark EV, 2012 Volt and many others before...

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2017, 12:25:00 pm »

According to the SAE, 240-450V fast charge is DC Level 2. 240V Domestic / public charging stations are AC Level 2. Level 3 is under development.

http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingspeeds.pdf

Seem a bit old (2011) reference. In Europe, they have three phase input (L3 AC) up to 43kWac I believe with some model. J1772 in NA is single phase only.

All electromobilists I know, they refers to level 3 as DCFC, which bypass the onboard AC charger to push DC power right into the traction battery...
The higher DC power observed with my Spark was 47-48kW (120Adc 390-400Vdc) below 78% SOC, for a 21,4kWh battery is cover by L2 DC as defined, but L3 ≥ L2 ≥ L1

Yup, Europe has real Level 3, AC Level 3 with the Renault Zoe. But here the SAE writes the standards and CHAdeMO / CCS Combo officially are DC Level 2. Due to the confusion with AC Level 2, most people call it "Fast" charge, but Level 3 it is not.

Offline Allen

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2017, 01:12:49 pm »
Get your self something with a small 4 banger and you have no worries, about charging,  changing technology, how long it takes to charge, where you can find it, whether you have enough juice to get some where when its cold, blah, blah blah.... get in it and  drive and when they tank is empty , put gas in and drive some more....

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2017, 01:44:04 pm »
Still **current** (get it?  :D )

Latest update 02/2016

http://standards.sae.org/j1772_201602/

Offline bye

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2017, 05:33:40 pm »
Get your self something with a small 4 banger and you have no worries, about charging,  changing technology, how long it takes to charge, where you can find it, whether you have enough juice to get some where when its cold, blah, blah blah.... get in it and  drive and when they tank is empty , put gas in and drive some more....


Get your self <a camera> with <physical film media> and you have no worries, about <resolution>,  <lens> technology, how long it takes to <turn on>, where you can <print slides>, whether you have enough <memory> to <store photos>, blah, blah blah.... get it and <take pictures> and when the <film> is <taken>, put <more film in> and <take more photos>....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_photography#History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle#2000s_to_present:_Modern_highway-capable_electric_cars

Offline Lower Level

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2017, 07:17:26 pm »
Get your self something with a small 4 banger and you have no worries, about charging,  changing technology, how long it takes to charge, where you can find it, whether you have enough juice to get some where when its cold, blah, blah blah.... get in it and  drive and when they tank is empty , put gas in and drive some more....


Get your self <a camera> with <physical film media> and you have no worries, about <resolution>,  <lens> technology, how long it takes to <turn on>, where you can <print slides>, whether you have enough <memory> to <store photos>, blah, blah blah.... get it and <take pictures> and when the <film> is <taken>, put <more film in> and <take more photos>....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_photography#History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle#2000s_to_present:_Modern_highway-capable_electric_cars

Pretty snarky there. Off your meds? Or just had a few too many drinks?
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Offline Allen

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2017, 07:28:00 pm »
Still an ahole. .....

You want to compare a camera to a car  :shake:

I have numerous digital  cameras and capable phones.. nice to have, convienient and a nice piece of technology. But if it doesn't work or its not charged, so what.

My cars, I want to get in them and drive from point A to B by the fastest route. I don't want to plan it or worry how far I can go before I run out, or take a route forced on me by charging stations. Just drive it and when I need gas fill it up at one of tens of thousnd of stations and keep going. ;D



Offline tenpenny

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2017, 08:08:05 pm »
Get your self something with a small 4 banger and you have no worries, about charging,  changing technology, how long it takes to charge, where you can find it, whether you have enough juice to get some where when its cold, blah, blah blah.... get in it and  drive and when they tank is empty , put gas in and drive some more....


Get your self <a camera> with <physical film media> and you have no worries, about <resolution>,  <lens> technology, how long it takes to <turn on>, where you can <print slides>, whether you have enough <memory> to <store photos>, blah, blah blah.... get it and <take pictures> and when the <film> is <taken>, put <more film in> and <take more photos>....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_photography#History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle#2000s_to_present:_Modern_highway-capable_electric_cars

You print slides?


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My diesel car self-identifies as an electric vehicle.

Offline bye

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2017, 12:37:14 am »
My cars, I want to get in them and drive from point A to B by the fastest route. I don't want to plan it or worry how far I can go before I run out, or take a route forced on me by charging stations. Just drive it and when I need gas fill it up at one of tens of thousnd of stations and keep going.

My <horse>, I want to get <on that horse> and <ride> from point A to B by the fastest route. I don't want to plan it or worry how far I can go before I <need to find a drug store with a gas canister>, or take a route forced on me by <needing a paved road>. Just <ride> it and when I need <to rest it> up at one of tens of thousands of <rivers> and keep going.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2017, 01:47:07 am »
Still an ahole. .....

You want to compare a camera to a car  :shake:

I have numerous digital  cameras and capable phones.. nice to have, convienient and a nice piece of technology. But if it doesn't work or its not charged, so what.

My cars, I want to get in them and drive from point A to B by the fastest route. I don't want to plan it or worry how far I can go before I run out, or take a route forced on me by charging stations. Just drive it and when I need gas fill it up at one of tens of thousnd of stations and keep going. ;D
This....couldn't imagine being stuck with such a limited capability car when a $35k Prius is just as clean plus is a real car that I can fill with gas and continue. Sorry, electric cars don't work if you plan on leaving your neighborhood.

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Lighten up Francis.....

Offline tenpenny

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2017, 10:16:03 am »
Some people like to ride horses.

Some people find that electric cars work for them.  That's great.  Do what you want to do.

The sanctimoniousness is what's tiresome, because it's completely misplaced.

drive whatever you want, just SHUT UP for a change.

Offline Guy

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2017, 10:37:59 am »
Back on subject. Both the current Leaf and the Focus EV (and the Soul EV for that matter) are totally outclassed by the Ioniq and the Bolt.

This is usually what happens in a fast evolving market. Usually the latest product release is the best. Eventually things will level out, but not yet.

Offline Lower Level

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2017, 10:46:18 am »
Some people like to ride horses.

Some people find that electric cars work for them.  That's great.  Do what you want to do.

The sanctimoniousness is what's tiresome, because it's completely misplaced.

drive whatever you want, just SHUT UP for a change.

That and it doesn't support his argument whatsoever. Yes, you have to fill a gas or diesel car's tank every time it's empty. But you still have to fill an EV with electricity when it's empty and just because it's a (supposedly since electric cars have been around well over a hundred years.) new way of doing it doesn't make the basic need to fuel it any different.

Allen has a valid point. THE val;id point since it'd be the deciding factor for the magority of buyers, especially those that aren't going to make a change because the don't want to change the way "it's always been done" which is most people in the real world.

If I still lived in the GTA, my last buying sojourn may have been a Focus EV but not here. I also still like driving and as a carguy enjoy the sounds and tactile feelings associated with driving. My point with that last being that it affects m,y decision more so then the "masses" since most people say outright they hate driving and a car is just an appliance. the thing is, even people that consider a car an appliance have to be CONVINCED to buy an EV since again, it's the way they've always done it. So if THEY have to be convinced, then it's even more so for those of us who LIKE cars and driving them.

I was watching a youtube thingo the other day when looking into the Hellcats eating their driveshafts. It was a race between a Tesla and a Hellcat done from the Tesla owner's view and meant top be condescending and snarky as the guy apparently goes to drag strips and feeds his ego buy proving some weird point over and over again. Okay fine, the Tesla is usually faster but watching this from the cam he had on the Tesla, my first thought was how boring it seemed. then they show the Hellcat. And yeah, it shredded the driveshaft before getting very far but man was it ecver entertaining just leading up to that moment. It made all the RIGHT SOUNDS, at least for a carguy and for many of us that's as much a part of it as any.

Yes, the Tesla is faster, but it's made it boring. I do wonder too how many of these people drive Teslas and come from a non carguy background and suddenly are doing these acceleration runs with zero experience on how to drive any car, let alone something this powerful. yes, there are plenty of performance car driven by idiots who can't handle them but I like to think the people that buy them are at least car enthusiasts in most cases so actually care about driving properly. So i wonder if some of the Tesla crashes might be due to people that can't handle them merely due to the fact that they just aren't very good "drivers" period? After all, these are also the same people that get Teslas because they have Autopilot.  :rofl2:

I can't use the power of even a slightly powerful car in Police State Ontario (Where we have "STREEEEET RAAAAYYYYYCING!!!!!" laws that basically give the cops the right to take your car whether you did anything or not. Police State law because you're guilty until proven innocent and even if found innocent don't get reimbursed for you lawyer's fees, driver's license suspension, car impoundment, etc.) so owning a car in which it's only entertainment value is illegal, i'd prefer something that snorts and makes noise and entertains me without necessarily risking my license. Yes, to the EV extremists it's "old fashioned" but most carguys to some extent are. It's part of the disease.  :rofl2:

And yes, I also have tongue firmly in cheek. ;D
Back on subject. Both the current Leaf and the Focus EV (and the Soul EV for that matter) are totally outclassed by the Ioniq and the Bolt.

This is usually what happens in a fast evolving market. Usually the latest product release is the best. Eventually things will level out, but not yet.

i would buy a Bolt well before I'd consider a tesla. I do see that Ford is rumoured to be upping the range of the Focus and if they want it to stay competitive, they will have too along with Nissan with the Leaf.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 10:50:36 am by Lower Level »

Offline bye

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2017, 08:55:09 pm »
drive whatever you want, just SHUT UP for a change.

I was responding to someone who came into a thread asking about two different electric vehicles that met his driving needs.
A person comes into this thread and says "buy a gas car", which is the opposite of "drive whatever you want".

Thanks for making my point!   Cheers

Offline me_2

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2017, 03:34:30 pm »
OOOPS typo!!  :popo: 335 kWh battery, not yet but the newer MY2017 is 33.5kWH + DCFC is a  welcome improvement for the FFE (Ford Focus Electric).

"33.5 kWh Lithium-ion, liquid cooled/heated"
https://www.ford.com/cars/focus/2017/models/focus-electric/

"AC Charging: 6.6 kW and DC Charging: 50 kW"
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:38:44 pm by me_2 »

Offline rrocket

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2017, 03:42:07 pm »
Man...That's a good price! Would work for me for my daily commute

What type of charge time on a standard household plug?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:46:52 pm by rrocket »
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline me_2

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 03:43:36 pm »
Man...That's a good price! Would work for me for my daily commute

Yes, I agree with the Ontario $14K incentive, lease seem to be a very good option...

Offline rrocket

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2017, 03:47:18 pm »
Charge time on standard plug?

Offline me_2

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Re: Leaf or Focus Electric?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2017, 03:54:50 pm »
Charge time on standard plug?

Most EVSE (120V - J1772) allows between 8A to 12A. Let me check, not familiar enough with the FFE. Need to check its kWh / 100 km average to get figure in km...

Edit:
FFE is rated 31 kWh / 100mi = 19.3 kWh / 100 km
Source http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

If 12 A @ 120V, grid power delivered to VE +/-1.4kW
if 19.3 kWh / 100 km + let say 15% recharge losses: 22.2 kWh / 100km,
then 22.2 kWh / 1.4kW = 15.9 h (for 100 km) @ 120Vac 12A, or rough 9.54 (10) min / km or 6 km/ hr. I had forgot how slow it is @ 120Vac.
Most EV owners I know have 240V 30A EVSE at home.
In this specific case, with its 6.6kW onboard charger, number should be closer to 3.5 hrs / 100 km 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 04:28:05 pm by me_2 »