Topic: 2023 Toyota Crown

[Ontariodriver]

2023 Toyota Crown, preview.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-toyota-crown-first-look-review/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc8ZIa0LUdE KBB Video.



Toad, comes to mind.

[Blueprint]

Classy paint job...

[Ontariodriver]

Classy paint job...

Maybe it is less reflective. School buses here I've notice have black bonnets.

[dkaz]

Outback sedan.

[OliverD]

I don't understand what Toyota is trying to do here at all.

[PJungnitsch]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

[rrocket]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

[dkaz]

I know I personally prefer a trunk when carrying stinky hockey gear, and it tends to make the passenger compartment feel cleaner. But two box vehicles are so much more versatile.

[JohnnyMac]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

[rrocket]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

AWD and a bit more ground clearance.

IIRC it's 2.5" more ground clearance than a Camry.

If I was in the market, I'd be in the demographic.

I'd much rather this or say an Outback, UX or Crosstrek than a full blown CUV.

But that's me.

[JohnnyMac]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

AWD and a bit more ground clearance.

IIRC it's 2.5" more ground clearance than a Camry.

If I was in the market, I'd be in the demographic.

I'd much rather this or say an Outback, UX or Crosstrek than a full blown CUV.

But that's me.

Okay, so for the old broken people who refuse to buy a CUV.      You know I’m just with ya. 

[rrocket]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

AWD and a bit more ground clearance.

IIRC it's 2.5" more ground clearance than a Camry.

If I was in the market, I'd be in the demographic.

I'd much rather this or say an Outback, UX or Crosstrek than a full blown CUV.

But that's me.

Okay, so for the old broken people who refuse to buy a CUV.      You know I’m just with ya.

Yes.

I just prefer luxury sedans far, far more than CUVs.  And I don't think I'm alone.  Maybe.  I also don't mind the styling, particularly in mono white.  I dislike the 2 tone treatment.  And it's supposed to be as luxurious as an Avalon.  For example, I really really like the Lexus ES300h Ultra Luxury.  But a part of me wishes it had AWD. Th Crown would probably work for me....depending on ride quality, luxury and fit and finish.  Yes, I know I'm old and broken down now...which is sad.  So if I can't drive sports cars, I'll drive a luxury car of some sort.  Sadly, the writing is on the wall for me IMO.

[JohnnyMac]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

AWD and a bit more ground clearance.

IIRC it's 2.5" more ground clearance than a Camry.

If I was in the market, I'd be in the demographic.

I'd much rather this or say an Outback, UX or Crosstrek than a full blown CUV.

But that's me.

Okay, so for the old broken people who refuse to buy a CUV.      You know I’m just with ya.

Yes.

I just prefer luxury sedans far, far more than CUVs.  And I don't think I'm alone.  Maybe.  I also don't mind the styling, particularly in mono white.  I dislike the 2 tone treatment.  And it's supposed to be as luxurious as an Avalon.  For example, I really really like the Lexus ES300h Ultra Luxury.  But a part of me wishes it had AWD. Th Crown would probably work for me....depending on ride quality, luxury and fit and finish.  Yes, I know I'm old and broken down now...which is sad.  So if I can't drive sports cars, I'll drive a luxury car of some sort.  Sadly, the writing is on the wall for me IMO.

Then they should have called it Avalon X or something, not Crown.  I agree that the one Color look is much better and at least there aren’t crazy body cladding, like some of the Mazdas and Subarus.

[rrocket]

Then they should have called it Avalon X or something, not Crown.

Yea, maybe.

BUT...since they're replacing the Avalon and there's like 4 cars in the JDM Crown line-up, I supposed it's at least possible to see more of them here.

So maybe this is setting the foundation for the Crown nameplate in North America.

But yea....could as well just continue the Avalon nameplate.

[PJungnitsch]

I had an ES250 loaner on Friday, and could see something a bit higher, shorter, and with AWD being a big improvement



Believe the ES actually does sell, but the Avalon only did something like 250 copies in Canada last year so it won't take much to beat it

Should mention this one to my BIL, he's been happy with his 2016 Venza. This could be a possible replacement if the rear seat folds down and opens up the trunk

[rrocket]

I had an ES250 loaner on Friday, and could see something a bit higher, shorter, and with AWD being a big improvement

ES250 only comes in AWD in Canada now IIRC...


Not sure how much smaller (if any?) than an ES it is.

Also, these 19" wheels look VERY similar to the wheels from the IS-F

[dkaz]

The Avalon name may have been worth saving in the USA.

Ease of ingress/egress while maintaining the sedan format could be a big draw.

[Ontariodriver]

The Avalon name may have been worth saving in the USA.

Ease of ingress/egress while maintaining the sedan format could be a big draw.

Not worth saving. Toyota Avalon is one those cars that doesn't really fit anywhere. The Camry, is just as good. pretty much the same. Toyota should stop there. Anyone looking for entry level luxury and above Toyotas, goes and buys the Lexus brand.  They don't even consider the Avalon, or perhaps it isn't even if it's on there radar. I think the Crown will be the same, it sell about 12 cars a year and it won't fit anywhere in the line. Just like Avalon and hardly anyone will know about it. 

[warp]

This is an interesting vehicle. And the powertrain choices are even more interesting. At least in the US, the 2 lower trim levels get the 2.5 liter NA engine found in the ES300h and maybe also in the RAV4 Prime and an electric motor for the rear wheels. That combination in Crown form makes 236 hp and has a CVT transmission. It's good for 38 mpg US. That is down from the 44 mpg US that the ES300h makes with FWD and a combined 215 hp. So there's a penalty of 6 mpg US I guess for the slightly more power and the higher ground clearance which probably makes it less aerodynamic. Since the electric motor powers the rear wheels I doubt that the mileage penalty has anything to do with drivetrain losses as would be the case in a traditional ICE vehicle with power being sent to the rear. The top level Platinum trim on the other hand sounds like much more fun, a 2.4 liter turbo engine with 2 electric motors for a total of 340 hp and has it a proper 6 speed automatic transmission. But the penalty is a combined fuel consumption of 28 mpg US, a drop of 10 mpg US over the less powerful engine combo.

[OliverD]

Outback sedan.

Pretty much sums it up I think. They have more than enough SUV's and the Camry is covering the sedan area, so striking out in a different direction and seeing what happens

Toyota said they are targeting those who still prefer sedans but aren't ready for an SUV.

How the does that make any sense, if you prefer sedans and not SUVs you just buy a damn sedan.  Maybe they meant buyers who don’t want a sedan, SUV, wagon, pickup, or sports car, so they get this elephant man vehicle.

AWD and a bit more ground clearance.

IIRC it's 2.5" more ground clearance than a Camry.

If I was in the market, I'd be in the demographic.

I'd much rather this or say an Outback, UX or Crosstrek than a full blown CUV.

But that's me.

Do sedan buyers really care about ground clearance? The Outback sedan and S60 CC were not exactly big sales successes.